SS behaviour advice

[Bannannaa]

DP has 2DC age 7 and 9. I have teenage DC age 15 and 17. We have lived together a year.

The youngest SD7 tends to be a frustrated stroppy tantrummer sometimes when she doesn’t get her own way but that’s dealt with quite well by DP. SD is also receptive to me helping out with this and we have made good progress with managing angry feelings like breathing exercises and understanding emotions. She also sometimes does have to do a time out to calm down and she will then understand why. SD loves my older DC and vice versa and has a warm relationship with them. SD is very helpful and considerate and will listen if you give her an explanation why she can’t do something.

DP’s eldest DC 9 doesn’t listen to anything anyone says, almost ever. You can say the DC’s name loudly, or go over and physically tap him on the shoulder, make eye contact and DC will just carry on with whatever they will doing. Even if you explain why they need to stop, they often wont stop unless physically removed. Or often they will stop until you aren’t looking and start doing it again. At the same time they never do anything you ask either (normal every day things).

DP will end up shouting at him out of frustration after plenty of warnings. DP is pretty much constantly tearing his hair out. SS is NT and intelligent and has no hearing problems. DP is always teaching about consent and other peoples feelings so it’s not like he isn’t trying. I also find myself getting very frustrated and often I have to leave the room because I know I am getting worked up when SS isn’t listening to me or anyone else.

My DC avoid SS9 as they say he is intensely annoying, as he won’t stop doing things when you say ‘no’ or ‘stop’. This can be physical acts too like touching, grabbing, tickling or teasing or trying to get into DC rooms. Last week he made them all upset by thinking it was funny to pretend to be trying to throw a big spider at them even when everyone told him to stop doing it, he had to be physically carried away and DP shouted at him in the end. They don’t like spending time with him, which is sad but I never force it and actively have to prevent him annoying them.

SS also never does anything you ask so will need to be told over and over to put shoes on, move out of the way or basically any daily tasks take 100 times longer as he talks and faffs so much and pretty much everything is on his terms so we are always late everywhere and frazzled.

IMO this feels like subtle controlling behaviour. by not doing what you ask, they are controlling the narrative, you will end up doing the job instead as it’s taking so long. With not listening to people who don’t consent, it’s cos it’s his agenda and it’s something he wants and he doesn’t WANT to stop. When you ask him why, he will just say he didn’t want to stop touching someone, he was just playing so he didn’t, or he doesn’t want to help out, so he isn’t going to.

I know he’s just a child and I have to keep telling myself that. He doesn’t seem to have good socialisation skills so a lot of his grabby behaviour is his way of playing. He plays with animals in the same clumsy, rough way and pays no heed to their body language either if they try to desperately escape him. I feel bad for him he’s constantly getting told off, it’s a stressful environment at times we just don’t know how to get him to learn.

At the DC’s mothers house, the step father has put in an extremely strict routine with a lot of rules. But SS9 is the golden child and apparently ‘never told off’ (according to them both) which upsets and SD7 as she feels like she is always getting told off. Their mum spends time gently explaining things to SS9 and he kinds of gets a hair ruffle and a pat on the head and she speaks to DP about things as if SS9 is still 3yo and still learning boundaries. Even DP’s parents are beyond frustrated with SS9 not listening to them either.

Apparently he is not like this at school or his DM’s (according to her anyway) but this can’t just be about me, as he’s been like this with DP when we didn’t even live together it’s just not getting better and he’s the same with his grandparents.

I’ve told DP I am considering moving out as it’s not fair on my DC to live like this with another child who invades their privacy and disrespects their boundaries on such a frequent basis. DP is not like this at all so it’s not something DP can change about himself to set a good example. I feel he needs some intervention but where do you start?

How often do they come ?

It doesn't sound like any of you are doing anything wrong but this child is stubborn!
What motivates him? Can you set up a reward system for all that might make compliance more enticing?
How do you punish poor behaviour?

So when you say the 9 year old is neurotypical, has he actually had assessments for ADHD/ASD? Because he sounds almost exactly like my (diagnosed) DC...

This type of behaviour is very annoying but it is slightly easier to deal with psychologically when you know it's to do with how their brain works.

It breaks up relationships too. Get proper advice on the SEN boards here before yours does.

He is the oldest and so most likely to have been impacted by the break up I'm assuming? How old was he when that happened? It is naive to imagine that a split in a family has no impact on the children within it.

This could also be partly caused by the step father's approach at his mums. Maybe your house is a place where he feels more able to rebel and do his own thing? I think your solution is very depended on how often he is with you.

As exemplified by the post above mine, you will get posts suggesting an authoritarian, punitive approach.

If DC has little control over the impulsiveness, this is likely to make things much worse.

Clearly he has some control if he isnt doing this behaviour elsewhere

That's called masking. Kids can only keep it up so long. My DC's a champion masker at school; explodes at home.

It's common.

www.pdasociety.org.uk/resources/helpful-approaches-infographic/ try some of these.

He was 4 when they split, mum left. She also had a big gap of choosing to not see them much at all for at least a year which I think will have had a big impact on them. They have 60/40 (most time with us). She remarried very quickly recently.

SS9 prefers mum to dad and has no problem saying it. SD prefers dad and often resists going to mums, screaming and crying and apparently doesn’t settle there and constantly asks to come back to us.

Apparently he is not like this at school with his teachers at all hence no assessments have happened. However he does seem to have some socialisation problems with understanding other peoples feelings, around friends he is a fun extroverted risk taker so very popular at school with other kids and easily led into mischief. He gets great school reports. I can’t push for assessments it’s not my place but I can advise DP. I have told DP maybe he should get his hearing checked again

Maybe play therapy might be helpful for him?

Also it’s hard to explain, but this is a choice. He does have control he just is choosing to not listen most of the time. He just doesn’t seem to really care or respect people

DP will ask him why he did/didn’t do something, SS will say well I heard you but I didn’t want to. Or he will just smirk at us. I am really on the fence about it being ND, it crosses my mind but then sometimes I see him and it’s like he is enjoying being irritating and winding up DP. He also actively chooses people who reward him the most ie stepdad buys him a lot of toys and Pokémon cards so SS behaves well whereas I am more boring and less exciting so he never listens to me at all

He clearly has huge impulse control issues.

How do you know he's NT? There is clearly negative and disruptive behaviour being displayed, too, so it isn't all about ND traits.

Frankly, he sounds like my 11 year old DD, who had a diagnosis last summer of Aspergers or Higher Functioning Autism. She was a MASTER at masking at school, with other family, her Dad (my ex-husband), everyone except me.

Her traits started to come through about the age of 10.

What you're talking about doesn't sound to me like purposeful nastiness on his part. It sounds almost like this is his role in the family, and so he continues to play it. Not knowing how to play with animals is also pointing to that, unless he's a psychopath in the making.

It can't be nice for him to be constantly shouted at or to have the other children actively avoid him, although I understand it's hard to live with.

Threatening your DP that you'll move out, if I was him, I'd take you up on that. You're a team, you're sharing responsibilities for all of your DC, you don't walk out because it's hard right now. If one of your DC's was struggling, and this can happen, would your partner threaten to leave?

Your last paragraph, that is exactly how my middle DD was until her diagnosis which has led to better understanding for all of us on how we can help her and how she can help us to help her. The changes have been remarkable.

Her assessment was private, it cost £3000.00 and was NHS approved as well as checked that her school would accept the report, which they did.

You sound like you're written him off. That's sad. Also, be mindful, impulse control, memory, and being expected to act quickly when asked to do something. These are all common traits with neuro diversity.

You say he struggles to get out of the door when you need to be somewhere, change, new places, faces, experiences, these are all triggers.

Not moving out of the way, spatial awareness.

Yes if I didn’t have DC who were miserable I wouldn’t even think of this. My DC are important too. They didn’t ask for this, he’s not their brother either it’s a lot to ask of them to tolerate. This isn’t about me I already said that it was about them

Perhaps the living together is a step too far. You have to prioritise your children and their feelings. If they are being forced into a blended-family situation with a highly-annoying child they won't thank you for it. At the very least they will need to have locks on their doors so that they can remove themselves.

You are not married, so you can undo this situation, remain a couple, but not put the children through the ongoing difficulty of a living arrangement that doesn't work for them.

We are meant to go out today. I am sitting here ready with SD whilst SS messes around, giggling, singing and not listening to anything we have asked. He just hurt SD on purpose because something wasn’t going his way. He will lie his full body weight on top of her even when she’s yelling stop it hurts I can’t breath. Then one of us has to pull him off, he will slide into a pile on the floor giggling and then eventually get up and do what we have asked which is put his shoes on. It’s exhausting. You would think he doesn’t want to go out.

(Your DP's children and their behaviour is not your responsibility.)

This sounds exactly like my niece who has diagnosed ADHD.

She is also fine in school but the school have said sometimes she's distracted and looks out of the window instead of doing work.

Obviously the behaviour is not okay and needs to be addressed but maybe it may need a different approach?

Also sounds very like my dc who is autistic.

Whether he is or not, whatever methods you’re using right now aren’t working, which will compound his behaviour further.

Someone mentioned the PDA society website - it has loads of resources and strategies that may help.
He seems to behave better for his dm and sf, so maybe taking a gentler approach might help?

I’d also recommend Ross Greene’s The Explosive Child book.

At the very least try to step back from the pointless loop of doom you seem to be living in, there are plenty of strategies to be found that can make a positive impact on everyone involved.

With your updates, I think there's a lot going on here. Your SS is still only very young (I acquired my SS at 9) and they're still pretty immature at that age. Plus the complexities of negotiating blended family life.
When I asked about punishment - a better word choice would be consequences (as you've already said this currently results in shouting).
All attention is still attention for children and this low level annoying behaviour is getting him lots of attention.
Personally I try to let kids 'win' - so maybe reset some of your expectations (shoes was a battle we never won) and let the small stuff go for now.
Lots of praise for good behaviour, ignore (when possible) poor behaviour.

This sounds like typical issues with transitions.

A different approach might look like giving more warning and giving clear and brief expectations.

It might also help to divide and conquer - one parent focus on him and keeping up a momentum of the morning routine, whilst other dc are doing the same away from him so there’s no opportunity for impulsive behaviour that can get out of hand.

I am going to suggest you look up pda .. whether he fits the criteria for this or not you might find this approach works well.

Do also bear in mind over a period he has gone from absent Dad to only seeing his mum 40% of the time .

DP is just frazzled which is why he is shouting but he hates shouting and gives him so many chances to stop or do before he does shout. I wouldn’t be able to put up with DP just yelling all the time but I understand he’s under a lot of stress not knowing why/how to deal with it and I don’t know either.

I do not shout as this would be inappropriate but I use a stern voice and this seems to work sometimes but it’s hit and miss. I remind him of what he’s been asked to do and he repeats it back to me, grinning or smirking and just generally not really bothered.

He gets time out and sent to his room, loses TV time etc but they don’t play on devices or have much TV time tbh so there isn’t much to lose. Also this needs to be about positive strategies to move past these issue not more punishments as they don’t work.

Their mum is a gentle parenting type with just a please don’t do that or just does all the things for him so she’s also always late but they do have a strict reward punishment system there which he has cracked - I don’t think these behaviours are on the list of strict rules tbh so he isn’t being asked to do that DP is asking which is to listen

Right, so he's had a significant amount of trauma in his short life.

You definitely need some expert advice.

Seconding Ross Greene's book The Explosive Child for the meantime and adding a recommendation of Jeffrey Goldstein's 10 Days to a Less Defiant Child (see if you can get DH to at least read the chapter on shouting -- I know men generally think they're above parenting books...)