Fathers rights ??

[mamazee]

My partner does not live with his 12 year old son. His ex is re-married and her husband pays for DS private education. The private school was chosen with no consultation with my partner and once decided he was asked to pay towards it, he refused as

1. he does not agree with the choice of school.
2. we cannot afford it.

He does pay maintenance and pay towards general stuff ie music, sport equipent etc

He would , however, like to know how his son is doing and term dates etc. the school has a password system on their website to access school dates. so my Dh wrote to the school to ask for the password and to have progress reports sent to him and info on parents evenings.

They have written back and said NO..
apparently they are contractually obligated to DS mum and her husband as they pay the fees ???
If he wants to attend open evenings he has to ask HER ??

How does that works ?? its like paying to be a parent ?

I know that state schools have to let BOTH parents go to open evenings and get reports/dates but is it for real that private schools are outside the law ??

Surely he should be able to get AT LEAST the dates ??

he is currently getting a court order as she
gave her new husband parental responsibility and NOT his dad...could that be it ??

HELP..

Certainly in state schools it would be down to parental responsibility - if your DH can get that formalised, then I don't see that the private school can exclude him from information about his son. As to what the law is, though - is it worth a call to Childrens' Services at your County Hall and asking for advice?

i have listed this in other sections too

thanks hassled...do you know anything about parental responsibility agreements ? i thought the dad had to agree if someone else was given it ?

i am really confused..
thanks for info about child services...will call them monday.

seems so bias towards mothers to me...even when the dads are attentive and around..very divisive...

is your partner named on the birth certificate, were they married? I think your partner needs to go and file for parental responsibility.

I think families need fathers may be able to help you

www.fnf.org.uk

Parental Responsibility Orders
PROs originate under Section 4 of the Children Act 1989. The 'Paramountcy Principle' applies - i.e. the welfare of the child is paramount in considering whether to award a PRO. The criteria which a father must meet in order to be given PR are not stipulated. However, over the past few years a substantial body of case law has developed which addresses this matter. The watershed case (1) included the following criteria to be considered when an application for a PRO was before the court:

the degree of commitment which the father has shown towards the child e.g.
financial support
pursuing contact
keeping arrangements
present at birth
having ones name on the birth certificate
involvement in child's education
the degree of attachment existing between the father and the child (naturally a father of a very young child may have had little opportunity to develop this)
the reasons for the father's application (to weed out applications made solely to be obstructive or disruptive)
A subsequent case (2) adds a new criterion: the loss of self-esteem for the child who has a father without Parental Responsibility.

Other significant cases have established the eligibility for awarding PRO's:

despite mothers hostility to father's involvement in child's life (3)
despite court denying father contact (4)
But PRO was not granted to violent father who had shown no regard for his child's welfare, being cruel and callous towards her (5)

If they were married and he si on the birth certificate he ahs automatic parental responsibilty (since 2003(?) they dont have to be married, just on the birth certificate).

A parent cannot just give parental responsibilty to someone without eitehr the say so of anyone with PR or the ruling of a court, so legally he has every right, assuming she hasn't lied to the court and claimed him estranged.

He needs to speak to someone about this, probably CAB or a lone parent line, someone liek Gingerbread or Families need fathers could help.

Mamazon, it might sound like a daft question so please forbear, but is it possible your partner could just ask his son for the term dates etc? Or how he is doing?
I know it's not the same

I had no idea the school was under an obligation to both parents, whether or not they both have PR.
My childrens' fathers do not have PR and I would be appalled if the school gave their fathers any information - that is why these rules are in place.
HTH

i have a feeling that a PR agreement may make no difference as the school is talking about being contractually obligated to the fee payers not the pr holder ??

we are already in touch with fnf (who are amazing )but i thought there may be a lawyer who knew definitively

am i being unreasonable ?

she has already lied about the dates of one half term so we couldn't take him on holiday hence the reason he wants dates sent direct to him..

You're not being unreasonable at all, that sounds dreadful.

Has your DH asked his son's mother about giving him access to this information? I assume that would be the first step (along with informing yourselves of his rights)

then perhaps he needs to get a contact order put in place where the holiday dates that he has them are specified, ie Feb half term one week, summer holidays firt two weeks in August etc. If the mother then prevents it by giving wrond gates then she is in breech of the order which will look bad on her and may make it possible to get more contact as she is being obstructive.

Good luck, they are being very petty and it is so sad for you dp and his son

Sorry Mamazee, misread your name there...

I don't know if there would be any chance without having PR in place - as far as I know it is pivotal and you would need it on top of any other reason, if you were to take matters further with the school. I believe it is necessary even in the state sector when parents are entitled to information, so you need to start with that I think.

If she has lied about term dates I can see where you're coming from. See a lawyer by all means in the first instance, but I do think you need to start with PR if you are serious about having these rights.

You're not being unreasonable at all, but as a part of his parental responsibilty he has to agree to education etc
She can't just cut him out of his life, and he has a right to know school dates/progress.
I would imagine with legal advice he could have it in writing that he is legally entitled to see the dates/progress reports etc and the school would have to abide by that.

FA is right btw, he will need PR or he doesnt really have any rights.
I know this because when DD started ehr new school afetr we moved towns they asked for details of her father, but her stepfather is down as her guardian and I told the school that her real dad has no PR and is not entitled to her reports etc.

flightattendent.
his mum won't give him the term dates as, i guess, she wants to maintain control.
i don't know your situation and why you would not want your kids fathers to have info but on our case he is very involved and has been since he left.
he does ask him but is very concerned about the culture of the school and the huge workload etc and wants to be able to have a more holistic view.

he is his dad and , i believe should be treated with respect not derision.

schools can use their common sense but if a father wants to be involved and is not a threat to the child, obviously, they can ask and attend parents evenings.

i understand that you don't want your kids dads involved but all non resident dads need to be heard and their case considered.

Schools cant 'use their common sense' as such, if DD's school allowed XP anywhere near her I'd take legal action against them, this is why they have to be so careful, but as long as your DP has PR he can ask for reasonable access to his childs educational progress and term dates etc.

I would imagine the school are just covering their arse, try and get something in writing which proves his PR and his rights.

hi
ds was born before 2003 and they weren't married.we are getting a court order anyway but how did her husband get PR without the dads consent...even if he did not have a PR ?? i have a feeling that she had to lie...we have had a year of legal letter writing to get pr and dates sorted but she keeps stalling and did not show up to mediation so a court order is , regrettfully, our last hope.

thanks so much for info...so kind of you all

flight attendent...sorry i think i may have misunderstood...sorry if i seemed defensive

also...apologies for lack of grammar and speed...am typing one handed with sick baby sleeping on my lap !

If he didnt have PR then she didnt have to ask his permission.
Also she may not even have given her husband PR, just named him as a 'parent' at the school. That's what has happened with my DD, XP doesnt have PR, but nor does DP, only I do.

mamazee I really hope this is resolved for your ds. How is he in all of this? I'm assuming that he enjoys and wants to see his Dad, I just hope his Mum doesn't make it difficult for him

victoriansqualor..i agree..the safety and happiness of the child is paramount...by common sense i mean that they have to listen to all sides...it is very possible that she is lying to them in which case they need to ask him...if her fears are true (as yours are) then, of course they have to take reasonable steps but a mother cannot be believed just because she is a mother.

my understanding is that there needs to be a valid, authentic and reasonable reason for fathers not to have rights. in this case there is not so she would not have a case for legal action

pr is important but the fact that HE IS HIS FATHER AND IS INVOLVED needs to have some weight surely.

its so complicated

BTW, the main thing courts look for is how reasonable someone is being, the fact that she is stalling not attending etc means she isn't being reasonable and will probably go in your favour, if she can't be trusted to support DP's relationship with his son then ther eis more of a need for him to gain PR in the eyes of the law.

Sorry keep x-posting!
Without the PR a school is not actually entitled to speak to anyone about a child so althoguh obviously it would be easier for you if they did, they really can't, they could get into big trouble for it, they can't see which families are and arent justified in acting in this manner.

I hope you manage to get it sorted, and I expect if you're following legal proceedings then you will gain PR.

step ds is ok...his mum is just trying to cut my dh out of his life. my dh will not bitch about her in front of him and he just wants everyone to get on.

she has been appalling to my dh and me (particularly since we had our ds)

her lies will come out evetually and then step ds will have to see whats she has done but until then we can just keep trying

step ds adores his dad and new bro.

w2hen we said we were getting a court order she told step ds that he would have to stand in front of a judge and tell them which parent he liked more...she is unhinged and manipulative and hurting her son more than she knows

all very sad

am sure we will get pr and hopefully will all be sorted.
thanks for advice victoriansqualor i am astounded that any mother would behave like this..and what the hell is her new dh doing ??
thought we may avoid courtr but it looks like we are gonna have to bite the bullet..bummer

she is doing the absolute minimum to support their relationship...she is very clever...nothing is overt.

its subtle which makes it harder