A story about (a lack of) entitlement.

[Magda72]

There's been a lot of aggro (hand wringing & pearl clutching) on here recently re adult dc/bedrooms/finances etc. so after meeting a good friend for a long awaited catch up I'm going to share this.
This friend is separated from her husband 6 years. She has a 24yro, a 21yro, a 16yro & a 12yro. For as long as I've known her she has lived in a tiny 3 bed (3rd bed is basically a box room), 1 bathroom, tiny kitchen/diner, 1 tiny living room house. Her dh was always unemployed (by wish - wanted to pursue his Art) & my friend was always self employed in an area that pays the bills but very little by way of luxuries. My friend cannot afford to buy a bigger house and where we are her mortgage is less than what renting would be.
Since splitting her h has not given her or the dc a penny - not a penny. He basically fecked off to another part of the country with another woman & sees the dc sporadically.
My friends eldest was doing exams when her dad left but ploughed on and did very well. She then took a year out and worked to save hard for uni. She has since obtained a first class degree all the while working while studying in order to pay her way through college (with the assistance of a small education grant). My friend helped her when she could but money was and is very tight. This girl is now working a full time job & putting herself through an MA programme part time.

The second eldest didn't want to go to uni but went straight out to work after school. 3 years later she's a manager of her division - the company's youngest at 21.
My friends youngest two are different sexes and given their ages can no longer share a room. So in their house my friend & her dp have one room, her dd has another & her ds another. At this the house is full to the brim as the house is truly tiny. My friend literally has no room for her older 2 when they visit.

Does anyone moan? No.
She & her older dc make day trips to see each other & the dc if push comes to shove will sleep on a sofa/floor if an overnight is necessary. They have both moved out all their stuff into their own accommodations which they fully fund themselves. These dc also have no rooms at their dads as he lives in a one bed with his gf miles away and they have little interest in spending time with him.
These dc are 2 of the nicest, most thoughtful, sociable & hardworking people I've ever come across. The took my friend out for her birthday recently & treated her to everything - a spa day followed by dinner. They have been treated appalling by their dad but are not bitter or nasty or needy.
My friends two youngest are also great kids and her 16 year old is now working all summer having completed their exams.
It's grafting like this that makes me see red on here with all the expectation that dc need two homes, two bedrooms & to be housed & financed by both parents well into adulthood.
There's so much bullshit on here as to what good parenting is - the Mumsnet version of it seems to be some middle class crap about proving your love by providing every material comfort going & that if you don't (especially as a separated/divorced parent) you are failing your dc, they will be scarred for life & you should jump through hoops to right this.
I know many teens and young adults and NONE of them (including my own) are as hardworking, independent or grateful as my friend's dc. Her family is proof that love is not money & bedrooms & holidays & mollycoddling into adulthood - it's graft & pulling together & mutual respect & gratitude & a hell or a lot of people on here could learn a thing or two about this from my friend.

YANBU , I agree

Well said.

Yeah, adult children do not need their own bedrooms in houses they no longer live in! I haven't seen the other threads, but whoever has been saying that is just wrong

And it's fine, a good example even, for women to just accept this shit from men, who don't need to provide anything for kids they chose to father?

Okaaaaaay.

Uplifting story, bro, but I prefer the ones where the women kick off big time with higher expectations of their exes.

@BeHappyItIsEasier oh there's been some beauts!
I should also say that when the eldest went to work before uni (& through uni) she effectively moved out & never moved back in - this is pertinent to an ongoing thread here about a 19 year old & bedrooms.
The second dc in question lived at home for 6 months after leaving school. After 6 months she had saved enough to put down a deposit on a flat with some friends & also fully moved out.

Uplifting story, bro, but I prefer the ones where the women kick off big time with higher expectations of their exes.
This man quite literally has no income (on paper), no savings & lives in his gf's flat.
It would cost my friend more in legal fees to get money out of him than anything she would get from him.
Don't victim blame her for him being useless.

You seem to think that in other threads where the mother expects the father to provide a roof over their children's heads, the women are being unreasonable as their children don't need that - hey, they can all live in poverty instead, stop complaining.
Nice.

You seem to think that in other threads where the mother expects the father to provide a roof over their children's heads, the women are being unreasonable as their children don't need that - hey, they can all live in poverty instead, stop complaining.
Nice.
Not what I said at all but rock on with your projections.

Don't be entitled (to money or support from the father), don't have expectations (of the father) - it's all there in your op. Jolly good. Women - know your place. Daughters, don't complain.

This is an amazing story of the children and their attitude and the character of your wonderful friend. I feel better and uplifted for having read it. Thank you for sharing it.

Your friend sounds amazing...
Her choice in men not so....
I see she is living with her 'dp' and she is still in tiny gaff...
so he brought nothing to the party?

Thanks @Diverseopinions - she really is an inspiration.
@Stomacharmeleon he does but he is divorced & most of his income goes on maintenance. Of course he pays my friend rent & contributes to running costs. His exw got the family home in the divorce & he cannot afford another one.
These are (economically speaking) working class people & I absolutely do not mean that in a derogatory way. They are grafters & very decent & fair people but there is little extra money.
This is why I get so annoyed on here with all the comments about rooms/houses/moving/two homes. So many commenting on here just do not get that many divorced people cannot actually afford, for their dc, what is advocated on here as good and proper parenting.

This is why I get so annoyed on here with all the comments about rooms/houses/moving/two homes. So many commenting on here just do not get that many divorced people cannot actually afford, for their dc, what is advocated on here as good and proper parenting

And also completely miss the point that parenting isn’t about what you can provide materially but how you can prepare your child mentally to be independent of you and happy and confident in life

Her partner pays maintenance to his ex wife but her ex doesn't to her? This is a shocking example of women being expected to put up and shut up, the 2 children out earning and paying their way, being female, is a further example of why women always have to suck it up.
They are amazing, don't misunderstand me, but why isn't their father being held accountable here?

To echo your thread title, the only entitlement I see in your thread is from your friends ex partner and her current partner. Neither contributing to her childrens lives in any financial or resourceful way, unless I missed some very crucial info.

Your friends situation is more luck than parenting. Those kids were born with those personalities.
My life has been a very similar story, I’ve grafted just to survive since divorce, the children have watched me struggle. They have never been spoilt, no labels or gadgets etc, but have never gone without what they actually needed. There’s a shit load of us crammed in the house now that I’m remarried(we sleep in the living room, it’s that small!).
My adult children have grown up to be workshy with zero clue what they want to do, and that’s not through lack of encouragement from me. They just don’t care. That’s just their personalities. 🤷🏻‍♀️ I’m very academic so it’s alien to me not to want to learn and progress. I’m sure they’ll find their niche in life eventually.

@justforthisnow this isn't a post about the right & wrongs of her ex. It's a post to highlight that dc of divorce don't always need the 'middle class' parenting that's regularly advocated on here in order to thrive & feel loved.
Also - Why should her partner contribute to her dc - he has his own to look after? He contributes to the household but not to the her dc directly & my friend wouldn't want that. His ex also doesn't work - Neither of them won on the ex lottery. My friends ex is awful with many issues & we all know the system needs to be changed in order to get parents like him to contribute to their dc. My friend isn't blithely letting him off the hook but there's very little she can do about it. We don't live in the UK & where we are there's no self representation in family court - you need a solicitor & a barrister which she just cannot afford.
@PotatoFamily yes of course there's always a bit of luck involved in how dc turn out - they are their own people after all. And yes, maybe yours will just take a bit longer to find their niche but I'm sure they will have absorbed a good deal of what you've demonstrated to them throughout the years even if it isn't fully apparent now.

Adult children absolutely do not need to be provided a bedroom once they've moved out. I've read so many silly comments to say they should and a bedroom should be empty for weeks and months, just in case that child should return. Bonkers!!
Thanks for your story, this represents a lot of people and we shouldn't feel bad for children sharing nor for the lack of space, xmas

Your friend has made many bad choices and her daughters are paying the price.
You can paint it as not displaying "middle class parenting" but the only ones living with that are her children, not by their choice. It's not middle class parenting to want financial stability for your children.

The mother is obviously amazing and has done a great job. But to me this is a story about letting fathers bugger off and doing sweet FA. It's not ok. He should have stopped being an 'artist' and made some money to pay for his offspring. That is entitlement right there. Lazy arse. What if the mother wanted to swan about with a new man and just do art instead of raise those kids?

I don't really get how this story demonstrates that young adults wouldn't benefit from having space in the parental home though?

It sounds like there is so little room that the older children have had little choice but to work hard and move out, permanently.

They sound wonderful, don't get me wrong, but I read the OP and just felt sad. They are so young to have no parental safety net.

I was able to send my young adults out into the world safe in the knowledge that, should they need it, there was room for them back with us. I mean goodness, they are married with children now, but they still go in 'their' bedrooms when they stay over.

Just because these young people have had the tenacity to survive without it, doesn't mean it isn't a good thing to preserve your children's safe space even when they have moved out or reached adulthood.

@justforthisnow I know these kids well and the older 2 are very financially stable & the younger 2 have everything they need & are very happy kids.
My friend made one bad choice (her exh) but like so many of us he didn't seem like a bad choice 25 years ago. Many of us have had that happen to us.

Your friend has made more than one bad choice if she is now enmeshed with a man who is financially obliged to another woman, on top of her previous ex who wont contribute to the welfare of his own children.
Her children sound amazing, but they are paying the price of absent parenting.

Just because these young people have had the tenacity to survive without it, doesn't mean it isn't a good thing to preserve your children's safe space even when they have moved out or reached adulthood.
And what if you can't? Like you financially actually can't? @Holly60 you are demonstrating exactly what I'm talking about. My elder siblings also had to effectively move out when they went to college/work as we lived in a 3 bed and there was 6 of us dc. My parents were wonderful people who educated us all & strove to give us a great start in our adults lives but they couldn't give us what they didn't have!
My friends kids DO have a parental safety net - a safety net of love & care - they don't necessarily need to maintain 'their' bedrooms into adulthood to feel loved & cherished.
I know this family well and they are extremely close & have a great relationship with their mum.

So some of you are damning my friend for 'letting' her exh bugger off (can't see how she'd have stopped him) & more of you are damning her for now being with a man who DOES honour his financial obligations to his dc.
Right so - misogyny still alive and well on here - everything is my friends fault & she's irreparably damaged her dc despite ALL evidence to the contrary.
This perfectly demonstrates that no matter what a woman does to provide for her family and set an example of strength she's always less than and hasn't done enough.