CMS and new business…

[Chaosandconfusion123]

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My partner is about to start a new business, something he’s always wanted to do. So, my first question is how do CMS work out his child maintenance payments?

Will they fluctuate each month depending on his income?

I’m struggling to find the answer online.

Thank you

The right thing to do would be to carry on paying based on his previous payments and if he income increases, to increase in line with this and also to treat it as a periodic expense, sending the same amount each month and not to impose the monthly fluctuations on his children and his ex.

@ChateauMargaux
Thank you for your opinion however I was looking for facts rather than what people think is the “right” thing to do.

People circumstances change, hence why CMS is worked on a percentage basis as opposed to a flat rate.

Cms is based on previous year's income. So his self emloyed income won't be used until the next annual review. If his income reduces by more than 25% he can ask for a review but hopefully he wouldn't make his dc suffer because of something 'he wants to do'. I too would like to go self employed but as I have children to feed that is not a risk I can take at the moment.

@oyatra
thank you, he doesn’t pay through CMS but he (as agreed by ex) has used the calculator to agree what is paid each month.

It’s tiring and bias attitude already expressed on this thread based on nothing but opinions rather than fact. There has been nothing to say that his ex isn’t happy with the situation or that any children will be “suffering”. I have asked for facts, not peoples opinions.

@oyatra
not everybody can be lucky enough to do what they want in life, DP really appreciates how lucky he is. I hope you one day manage to achieve your dream of going self employed too.

Well as he doesn't pay via cms I'm guessing he can do what he wants really so try talking to the kids mom and see if she will accept variable payments with a reasonable baseline ie nothing less than x a week

It's hard because as a single parent I couldn't go self employed without a reasonable basic income because I have to feed the kids

@Theunamedcat
Thank you for your reply…it’s hard to say about it not going below X amount as that could mean that 100% of his income is going to his ex and none into our household.

Everybody’s circumstances are different. DP is lucky that both his ex and I earn enough while he gets his business going.

Time and time again, people will post saying it’s not fair that the RP picks up the slack if NRP loses their job, etc…who do you think is paying for our DC while DP isn’t really earning. Really, his ex and I are actually in similar positions in that respect.

@Chaosandconfusion123 you might well be in the same position as his ex. I assume she was given as much input to the decision as you were and of course when your DP's business is a huge success she will see as much reward for her support as you will...

Hid children have become no less expensive to house clothe and feed so his payments should stay as they are! Why should they be impacted?! Unbelievable!

You’re not in similar positions at all. You are choosing to support your partner in something that will hopefully, eventually, provide your household with more income.

The ex doesn’t have a choice, and she will never be the person who reaps the reward from the current sacrifice.

Cms go off last years p60. Every year it gets reviewed and if there is a change in income then they will adjust payments accordingly.

Now if your partner starts up his own business then they will go off the most recent p60. The figures on the most recent p60 maybe significantly less than his income now. If his income has a difference of 25% either way then the cms will accept a recalculation.

If there is not 25% difference either way then he will have to wait for his annual review for them to re calculate.

It goes off the previous years income if I remember correctly.

So next year, after he's been self employed for a year, you'd use his figure to calculate the following years CMS payments when you do his self assessment.

@PinkGinny
DP spoke with his ex about it all and got the okay from her. Likewise, he will always pay at least what he owes via the calculator or more as he has done previously.

@MalbecandToast
I am well are that none of the children cost less to clothe, etc…which is why we all agreed to this, ex included.

I haven’t said anywhere that the ex is unhappy about the situation, you have all assumed and made judgments on that. Wrongly.

@FairyCakeWings
please see above, it was discussed with her. She will also “reap the rewards” when he is able to hopefully keep increasing his CMS payments.

@Itshothothot @Kiiiiiiik
thank you for your factual responses, that’s what I needed to know :)

Because if the parents lived together their income would vary each month?

Sometimes self-employment is not actually a choice, but life imposes it on you. Health issues, an entire industry grinding to a halt, everyone sacked and Chinese replacements on board overnight....

It isn't always the ex out to screw you.

who do you think is paying for our DC while DP isn’t really earning. Really, his ex and I are actually in similar positions in that respect

it’s not even nearly the same thing. You are making a choice as a couple. His ex will have to pick up any slack, regardless of whether or not that causes her hardship or difficulties. She has no choice. You do. Your defensiveness speaks volumes.

How many ex’s on here are slated to kingdom come for working part time or otherwise considered to not be maximising their income? Fine when a NRP does it, however, backed up by lord knows how many step mums saying the ex will have to lump it. Never a thought given to possible and actual impact on the children concerned.

She will also “reap the rewards” when he is able to hopefully keep increasing his CMS payments

sure. Until an accountant shows you how to minimise to £7 a week and the business goes into your name….

sure. Until an accountant shows you how to minimise to £7 a week and the business goes into your name… you're so cynical. My DH likes being able to say "I've had a payrise here's some more maintenance". Not everyone who is self employed is doing it as some sort of maintenance avoidance scheme.

The ex lost all rights to a say on his employment status when they split up

If he's earning less, he has to pay less. Same as if he lost his job or got made redundant etc.

If he's starting a new business it's good for him to consult his ex about it and get agreement but really he doesn't have to.

It's stupid to say he has to keep paying the same amount as now regardless. Hopefully if it's less now the business will pay off and the ex may get more in the future.

Exes should never rely on the NRP payments IMO. And I am both a step mum and an ex. If the NRP can't pay more they can offer to up their time ideally to 50/50 to compensate in which case there is no maintenance due. That's how I think it should be. If he's setting up a business and working for himself and so has to pay less, can he have the DC more and work his hours around this to make up for the drop in money? Ideally this would be the best solution.

The difference between you and ex is that you were involved in the decision and agreed to the financial consequences

whereas the ex just has to accept the decision and financial consequences

So it sounds like the discussion has already happened with the ex and that everyone involved is (at least theoretically) ok with the idea of fluctuating CMS depending on monthly income, calculated according to the CMS calculator. So do that.
You’ve also been given the info about how CMS is calculated when parents don’t agree - it goes off the previous year’s income. - so you know what will happen if the ex becomes unhappy with any drop or inconsistency in maintenance.
What’s the point in worrying about what other women on mumsnet think of self employed Non resident fathers? This is a decision that you and your H are making and you need to feel morally ok with it yourselves. The ex-wife’s opinion matters because it will affect the co-parenting relationship. The legal position matters because that is what will happen if relations with the ex-wife breakdown. My opinion, and the opinions of other posters here don’t matter.

Love how the NRP is always made out to be unreasonable. Who is to say RP wasn't the one who chose to end the relationship? Therefore forcing their decision on the now NRP.

Of course if the person paying CMS has a change in their financial situation then payments can and should change. I say that as someone who receives CMS and as someone whose DH pays CMS. I am on both sides of it. Mine has changed because my ex's income reduced and that's just how it is.

I learned, and was told by a financial advisor, very early on not to rely on the payments - the reason why when I needed a mortgage they couldn't take them into account for affordability.

If the ex has no issues, why are you questioning it? You have a private arrangement so its between them to agree and if they can't agree then she goes to csa and let's them decide. It sounds like they have a decent, amicable relationship so let them figure it out.

There's nothing "moral" to consider about going self-employed. Only on Mumsnet!

you're so cynical

realistic. My children have gone 13 years without support from their self employed father. No end of women willing to support him with that. I know several women with self employed ex’s. None of them receive maintenance either.

Exes should never rely on the NRP payments IMO

We are living in increasingly difficult times financially. Both parents should be doing everything they can to ensure their children don’t go without. Both ‘sides’ should be able to rely on being a parenting team. The suggestion maintenance shouldn’t be relied upon just plays into the hands of those who make children women’s problem. It should be normal practise, in my opinion to insure maintenance payments against redundancy, ill health and disability. Life insurance to cover maintenance to 18 and a contribution to uni costs should also be the norm. Not expecting an ex to just suck it and see in all circumstances. Children and their needs should be taken seriously by both parents, not just the one left picking up the slack.

Just because someone is classed as NRP does NOT mean that one person is left picking up the slack. That is your own view and experience.

My DH is (gasp) self employed. He pays over and above what CMS says. His income reduced to hardly anything during the pandemic but he didn't reduce it even though he could have. He is classed as NRP even though they are with us 40% of the time.

Anybody who relies on CMS payment being set in stone is foolish. I've always considered that the payment to me could stop at any point. Because it can.

And regardless of what might happen in an ideal world I don't think those payments should be protected or have to continue if someone gets made redundant or can't work due to illness. It's not just the ex partner who suffers in that situation? But it's Mumsnet duh. And second families don't count!