She's driving me crazy!

[TwoBulletsFiveZombies]

I have two DSD (11 and 5) who I've always, up until recently, had a good relationship with. However, over the last 6 months or so, the older SDs behaviour has really deteriorated.

She physically and emotionally bullies her little sister, to the point that leaving them alone together for just 5 minutes results in crying and injuries. She takes her stuff, hurts her and calls her names and just generally winds her up constantly to get a rise out of her. I'm worried for the little ones self-esteem, and honestly her physical safety as she's been pushed to the point of knocking her head a couple of times now.

Her attitude with me and my partner has gotten worse too - attitude and answering back, and personal insults directed towards me. Poking me and making daft noises with the purpose of being antagonising. Its getting difficult to do anything or go out as a family because as soon as she gets bored, she starts playing up and whining until we have to leave. Just majorly unpleasant to be around. If we have family or friends round, she misbehaves until the attention is back on her.

Any telling off (and she has had MAJOR telling offs) is met by smirking and snide comments, it doesn't seem to phase her at all.

I'm just at the end of my tether with her. She's almost as big as me so I'm concerned that if we don't tackle this now, it could result in physical violence directed at myself as she gets older, or at least a loss of even more control over her behaviour.

We've tried giving her more attention, "killing her with kindness" including one-on-one attention with both me and my partner. She comes for an extra night in the week now and we take her to her club. She's not lacking attention, or comfort, or anything she needs. She has her own bedroom with everything she could possibly want. Her grandparents and aunties etc also struggle with her behaviour.

I want to support my partner in this but I'm just at the point where I want to back off completely. She says typical pre-teen comments like "I don't need looking after" and "I'm not a child" and this weeks favourite "you're basically just like a neighbour". I found this really hurtful when I do so much for her, doing her laundry, cooking meals, buying her presents, taking her places. I'm just tempted to stop all of it now. Other times (although increasingly rare) she's well mannered and thoughtful and quite needy with me.

We've tried the heart to heart talks to find out what's wrong or if she's reacting to something - she normally says she's just bored. But we giver her time and attention and things to do, we keep her busy. But we both have full time jobs and can't be on-demand entertainment all the time.

I'm not sure where to go from here. I want to support her but its becoming at the expense of my own mental health. She actually drove me to tears at the weekend.

Just hoping for some advice of anyone who's been in a similar situation, or has a child of a similar age. I know its a difficult age and she's been through a lot but this seems bigger than typical 11yo behaviour.

Sorry this was longer than expected!

That sounds horrible. I don't know what to suggest but wouldn't be doing laundry and taking someone out who thought I was just their neighbour! I also would not be providing childcare for a violent child.

I think it sounds like puberty hormones have hit she's she's struggling to regulate her emotions. Is there any chance she's being bullied at school or something and taking it out on her sister?

You said that she gets told off but what are the punishments/consequences for her behaviour?

I suggest you completely back off. You are not her parent. She has 2 parents and it is their responsibility to tackle her behaviour.

Detach and remove yourself from her. Tell your partner (are you married?) that you will not be dealing with her any more, so that he is clear that it is his responsibility.

You cannot get involved with "parenting" a difficult step child. It never ends well.

@KylieKoKo

That sounds horrible. I don't know what to suggest but wouldn't be doing laundry and taking someone out who thought I was just their neighbour! I also would not be providing childcare for a violent child.

I think it sounds like puberty hormones have hit she's she's struggling to regulate her emotions. Is there any chance she's being bullied at school or something and taking it out on her sister?

I agree puberty is playing a part - she's confided in me that she feels angry for no reason a lot of the time. She also goes through stages, often in the same day, of being manically happy and chatty with me (like two hours of word vomiting!) and then completely sullen and mean.

I wouldn't mind if she took herself off to her room to have a bit of space if she needed it but she seems to actively seek either me or her sister out to terrorise.

Her and her sister have always bickered, and she's mostly been the instigator so that's not new. She doesn't seem to understand how much of an advantage physically or intellectually she has over her due to the age gap. She gets very jealous when her sister is getting attention - i.e. I was helping little one with her reading and she grabbed the book and started bending the pages.

The attitude and answering back to me and my DP is quite a recent thing though.

@AmandaHoldensLips

I suggest you completely back off. You are not her parent. She has 2 parents and it is their responsibility to tackle her behaviour.

Detach and remove yourself from her. Tell your partner (are you married?) that you will not be dealing with her any more, so that he is clear that it is his responsibility.

You cannot get involved with "parenting" a difficult step child. It never ends well.

I have now, of sorts.

I told my DP yesterday that I wouldn't be attending the club with her, or rushing home to get her tea on, until there is an improvement in her behaviour.

I'll back off as much as I can but I can't really avoid my own home all the time. I can go off to my room when she start up, or take the younger one out on her own (she would hate that and it might get the message across), I can buy her a laundry basket, show her how to use the machine and leave that to her own devices. All options I'm considering.

@Christmas21

You said that she gets told off but what are the punishments/consequences for her behaviour?

Not really any tbh but obviously some are needed.

Options for consequences I have is: Me withdrawing my attention. Removing her Netflix access - I pay for this so I have jurisdiction. I could change the wifi password. She could be made to do her own laundry/bed changing etc. We could withdraw treats like going out for meals. Sending her to her room to cool off.

My DP considered stopping her going to her club, but I honestly think this would backfire and make her even worse. Its a bit of routine and time for herself that I think does her good. But obviously if it becomes necessary.

We have the same issues, my SS (12) constantly verbally and physically abuses his 5 year old brother, really horrible shit, at both homes, done it for years and it’s been a real bone of contention because nothing phases him, no consequences work and he doesn’t listen to anyone. He’s now getting in trouble with police and damaging both homes. Threatens to punch me etc, the behaviour has just gotten out of control. It breaks my heart having to console the 5yo as his brother has hurt him yet again. We’ve got to keep them separated here which is very hard when they haven’t got their own rooms, they have separate dinner times, have to go with the 5yo to the toilet etc, their mum also struggles massively. Social services are involved now as 5yo told school about it which I’m glad about as they may help. Don’t know what the answer is, he refuses to talk to a councillor or anything, I hope he comes out okay on the other side of these pre teen/teen years.

Can you keep the girls separated? More so to protect the smaller one?

@NC2533

We have the same issues, my SS (12) constantly verbally and physically abuses his 5 year old brother, really horrible shit, at both homes, done it for years and it’s been a real bone of contention because nothing phases him, no consequences work and he doesn’t listen to anyone. He’s now getting in trouble with police and damaging both homes. Threatens to punch me etc, the behaviour has just gotten out of control. It breaks my heart having to console the 5yo as his brother has hurt him yet again. We’ve got to keep them separated here which is very hard when they haven’t got their own rooms, they have separate dinner times, have to go with the 5yo to the toilet etc, their mum also struggles massively. Social services are involved now as 5yo told school about it which I’m glad about as they may help. Don’t know what the answer is, he refuses to talk to a councillor or anything, I hope he comes out okay on the other side of these pre teen/teen years.

Can you keep the girls separated? More so to protect the smaller one?

@NC2533 that sounds awful. I feel like if we don't really tackle this now it's going to get to this point, including potential physical violence against us and social services involvement.

Counselling for her would be good - but if DP agreed to it her DM certainly wouldn't. They have a very confrontational relationship so it's not like they can discuss this and work together to resolve it and present a united front at both homes. I think there is a lack of any discipline or structure at their DMs and older SD is left to look after younger SD a lot, which could be causing some of the resentment. But I do think a lot of it is SDs jealousy, attention-seeking and wanting her own way.

She has glimpses of being a really nice kid - so it's in there. We're just at a crossroads as to which way it will go and how we react to that is obviously going to have an impact - I don't want to make it worse by doing the wrong thing.

Also - we could separate them but practically only so much, I could take smaller SD out and away from the situation more. We don't have any control over what goes on at their other home though.

How often are they at yours?

Pressed post too soon. What is her behaviour like at school?

Consequences are needed definitely. Start with ignoring her attention seeking and moving away, take yourself to another room, with other SD if needed. Simply don’t give her an audience or reaction for that kind of behaviour.

Netflix and WiFi absolutely take these away for negative behaviour.

Her club, if she likes and enjoys it, this goes for bad behaviour too. Not ideal long term as you say it’s space away, but she has to have some consequences.

But the main one, her parents need to parent together, if they don’t have a united front and tackling things, it’s hard and possibly partly the root of the problem too.

Me and exh struggle with this at times. He does very little and doesn’t put into place consequences or tackle behaviour and it shows. I’ve tried but he has all the excuses so there is only so much I can do. But DP needs to tackle this one. As if it ever does escalate to SS involvement they will suggest this and expect this to make changes anyway.

@sassbott

Pressed post too soon. What is her behaviour like at school?

@sassbott we technically have them about 40% of the time, but a lot more recently, probably more like 60%.

Her behaviour at school is just "ok", I think she gets a couple of tellings off for cheek and giggling but nothing serious that I've heard about - no detentions etc. .Just normal kid behaviour from what I can gather. She doesn't open up much, she tells me more than she tells my partner, but she's mentioned a couple of cruel comments from other kids to me. She's not "instagram-perfect" like a lot of these kids seem to be, a bit quirky and tomboy-like so I can see she might be a target to other kids - something to keep an eye on there.

My partner had a serious talk with her on their way to the club (I didn't go with them as was unhappy with her). She got upset and they we're getting close to arriving so he dropped it. She was quiet and sulky on arrival home.

However, she's been since and was better behaved. Not perfect but a lot better and perfectly chatty and fine with me so I think some of it must have sunk in.

We'll see how weekend goes!

Just to add, the extra time is led by her - she seems to enjoy coming and mithers to do so - and we're always happy to have her more (at least I was, until the last few months), which is why I don't understand the poor behaviour when she gets here. She must be happy here to want to come?

So you have a specific issue that is showing up in your homes only and not in school. That isn’t core behavioural issues. She knows she can’t get away with certain behaviours at school so isn’t acting up there. But she is at home.

That shows you the issue is within the home. You said upthread that there are no punishments/ consequences. That’s why she’s behaving so poorly. If my eldest did a fraction of what you’re saying she did, I would remove his phone immediately and give him zero access to wifi. Depending on the severity of it - it could be one evening or a whole weekend.

This isn’t your problem to solve unfortunately. The parents need to step up and put in firm boundaries.

@AmandaHoldensLips

I suggest you completely back off. You are not her parent. She has 2 parents and it is their responsibility to tackle her behaviour.

Detach and remove yourself from her. Tell your partner (are you married?) that you will not be dealing with her any more, so that he is clear that it is his responsibility.

You cannot get involved with "parenting" a difficult step child. It never ends well.

Agree with this. Detach detach detach. It won't end well for you. You'll be seen as the meddling SM "you're not even my Mum" etc etc..

Leave this entirely with your husband and her mother.

I'd start making plans elsewhere when they are there.

Could you get a lock on your bedroom door so you can take yourself off if she tries to bully you as a consequence for her behaviour. That way she'll see treating you badly is pointless. Her dad will have to deal with her and keep her sister safe

@SnowdropCrocus

Could you get a lock on your bedroom door so you can take yourself off if she tries to bully you as a consequence for her behaviour. That way she'll see treating you badly is pointless. Her dad will have to deal with her and keep her sister safe

Yes, we've got a lockable handle for the bedroom door that just needs putting in - I'll prompt my DP to do it.

It sounds like a combination of puberty and insecurity, which is unfortunately inevitable if her parents have a confrontational relationship and there isn't consistency between the two homes.

It's especially difficult for you, because you are not the cause of the problem and don't really have the means to address it - you're not her parent - yet a lot of the onus of managing her poor behaviour is falling on you.

I think your best course would be to detach a little - make sure you have breaks for yourself (taking the little one out doesn't count!) and keep up the message to her father that it's his responsibility to step up and partially his fault that she's struggling to regulate her emotions. He and his ex need to grow up and sort out their co-parenting relationship - for a start, the girl needs counselling. This shouldn't be another football for them to play out their bitterness against each other, it's about their daughter and what she needs.

for you, I suspect she is targeting you precisely because you are kind, level-headed and concerned about her. I think you should continue to be calm and reasonable with her, but do make sure you take proper breaks for yourself and make sure you DP knows there are limits to what you will tolerate - it is HIS responsibility to step in and do some active parenting here.

I wouldn't do the heavy lifting here. I'd let the parents do the discipline. They need to get control and quickly as this situation is unlikely to improve. I'd suggest to the parents that unkindness warrants devices to be lost. Put them in the attic if needs be. I have found that with a bit of strict device removal (expect tears and tantrums) this type of situation can be improved.

Scolding not working?
Disappointment & shame are
Much more impactful

My son went through that stage at the same age. Horrible. He's mow grown up, lovely and constantly apologise for how horrible he was.

When I asked him at around 14 why he'd behaved like that, he said that it was to test how much I could take to probe that I loved him no matter what.

Of course it wasn't a conscious, premeditated attitude, but an unconscious one he was able to explain years later, all fuelled by terrible insecurity.

He said that I handled it very well as I remained firm, but also loving and caring. It was certainly hard to be so at the time. I can't even imagine being so with a child that's not yours.

Not a good weekend I'm afraid, she started attacking with my younger SD Friday teatime, I was like "come on now girls, let's not have another weekend of this". She was made to go sit around the other side of the table, but was still kicking her sister under the table after repeatedly telling her not to. I lost my shit at her, tell her she's doing all her own laundry etc from now on.

DP not very supportive and we ended up having words. We're OK now, big talks had, but I've told him I'm backing off from any parenting of her, it needs to be him now.

So a miserable weekend of me making myself scarce, her sulking and giving out attitude to everyone. I looked after LO on Sunday which was lovely, she was so good. Older SD had to go out working all day in the rain with DP.

She was perfectly pleasant when I got back Sunday night with LO but an hour of good behaviour doesn't cancel out all the bad I'm afraid. Sticking to my guns on this.

Incidentally her aunt came round with her young cousins on Sunday while she was out. She's also majorly unimpressed with her when SD went round for tea last week and was being vile to everyone there. One of her cousins have raised to her teacher how upset she was about it and how worried they are about what older SD is doing to younger SD when nobody is around, if that's how aggressive she's being with people watching.

Bloody nightmare.

11 year old attacking a 5 year old, Jesus.

Have you heard of NACHO, OP? If not look it up on Facebook. It's a support group for people who follow the particular method of step parenting, you need to completely detach from her so as not to be affected by this type of behaviour.

I wouldn't NACHO the 5yo though, the poor little thing must spend her every waking moment on edge.

I hate to say it but their dad doesn't sound all that great to me, I could never imagine allowing my 11yr old to get away with attacking my 5yr old.

Overall it's not your place to be agonising over this, I say that in the nicest possible way, for your own good, not because "your not their mother" etc but because you don't need to put up with that shit.

Don't do her laundry. Don't do anything for her at all.

I would actually go as far as saying the poor 5 year old is being physically abused by her big sister and her own parents (both mum & dad) are standing back and letting it happen

As the adult your DP (and his ex) is as much to blame as your older SD in facilitating the abuse

If the 5 year old doesn't get proper support from parents soon she may quite rightly tell a teacher. If social services do become involved it's not only the older SD who will come out of this looking bad.....

At the end of the day she's still a child and is acting out for a reason