She's driving me crazy!

[TwoBulletsFiveZombies]

I have two DSD (11 and 5) who I've always, up until recently, had a good relationship with. However, over the last 6 months or so, the older SDs behaviour has really deteriorated.

She physically and emotionally bullies her little sister, to the point that leaving them alone together for just 5 minutes results in crying and injuries. She takes her stuff, hurts her and calls her names and just generally winds her up constantly to get a rise out of her. I'm worried for the little ones self-esteem, and honestly her physical safety as she's been pushed to the point of knocking her head a couple of times now.

Her attitude with me and my partner has gotten worse too - attitude and answering back, and personal insults directed towards me. Poking me and making daft noises with the purpose of being antagonising. Its getting difficult to do anything or go out as a family because as soon as she gets bored, she starts playing up and whining until we have to leave. Just majorly unpleasant to be around. If we have family or friends round, she misbehaves until the attention is back on her.

Any telling off (and she has had MAJOR telling offs) is met by smirking and snide comments, it doesn't seem to phase her at all.

I'm just at the end of my tether with her. She's almost as big as me so I'm concerned that if we don't tackle this now, it could result in physical violence directed at myself as she gets older, or at least a loss of even more control over her behaviour.

We've tried giving her more attention, "killing her with kindness" including one-on-one attention with both me and my partner. She comes for an extra night in the week now and we take her to her club. She's not lacking attention, or comfort, or anything she needs. She has her own bedroom with everything she could possibly want. Her grandparents and aunties etc also struggle with her behaviour.

I want to support my partner in this but I'm just at the point where I want to back off completely. She says typical pre-teen comments like "I don't need looking after" and "I'm not a child" and this weeks favourite "you're basically just like a neighbour". I found this really hurtful when I do so much for her, doing her laundry, cooking meals, buying her presents, taking her places. I'm just tempted to stop all of it now. Other times (although increasingly rare) she's well mannered and thoughtful and quite needy with me.

We've tried the heart to heart talks to find out what's wrong or if she's reacting to something - she normally says she's just bored. But we giver her time and attention and things to do, we keep her busy. But we both have full time jobs and can't be on-demand entertainment all the time.

I'm not sure where to go from here. I want to support her but its becoming at the expense of my own mental health. She actually drove me to tears at the weekend.

Just hoping for some advice of anyone who's been in a similar situation, or has a child of a similar age. I know its a difficult age and she's been through a lot but this seems bigger than typical 11yo behaviour.

Sorry this was longer than expected!

I do feel for you OP as there's only so much I can do but your frustration is focussed on the wrong person.

11 year olds don't behave like that for no reason and you've already said there are no punishments or consequences.

The title of your post you'd be "DP is driving me crazy"

On one of your replies you've said that even if your DP would agree to counselling for the 11 year old, her mum would never agree. Tbh if your DP has her 60% (or even 40%) of the time, he doesn't need the mums permission to take his own Dd for counselling. He can do what he likes with her during his time (within reason) and even if her mum did have an issue with it, it's not going to look great on her if it goes to court as she was against counselling when it's clearly so badly needed. I don't think anyone in their right mind would disagree.

I took my DD for counselling against her dads wishes. He objected and I told him straight that if he tried to stop it he would need to go via the courts and in denying his own Dd much needed counselling (out with his own contact time) he'd actually look like a completely incompetent father in front of any judge.

While you're there I'd also consider what support the 5yo may also benefit from

Thank you everyone, I appreciate your responses and also am aware that I have a DP issue. Even his own sister has said that he's oblivious to it, which he is. He seems genuinely ignorant to most of it happening, where I'm alert to every little dig out of the corner of my eye/mean comment etc. He stands back letting it escalate, while I get more and more stressed out thinking "surely he's going to intervene soon" until it's too late and its WW3. And then I'm the one so worked up that I am reactive and angry (and the bad guy).

I've had a serious discussion with him, told him I've gone from looking forward to them coming to finding excuses to be anywhere else, and he seems to have grasped the seriousness of the situation.

I've suggested to my DP that he gets in touch with her form tutor and sees if there are any issues at school and if there is any pastoral care (i.e. light touch counselling) available. We'll see if he makes the effort. Meanwhile I'll step back, and leave (with the 5 yo in tow if needs be) to another room or going out somewhere when she starts kicking off in any way.

She also snuck her dirty laundry in the main washing basket, rather than in the new one I marched her round the shop to buy. It went straight back in the other one when I found it.

Childish and petty maybe (?) but I'm sticking to my guns on this. There's only so many times someone is disrespectful to me before I stop doing nice things for them.

I've had a serious discussion with him, told him I've gone from looking forward to them coming to finding excuses to be anywhere else, and he seems to have grasped the seriousness of the situation.

Don't get me wrong, it's great he's paying attention but if he's happy to stand back and let his daughter physically abuse and threaten her sister without bothering about the impact on her, then only pays attention as you've made him aware it's making you unhappy then this is a massive red flag.

He needs to be taking action 1) to protect his youngest; and 2) to get his eldest the help/support she's clearly crying out for. His reason for taking action shouldn't be that his partner is unhappy and looking to avoid his eldest.

It suggests that if you had a more hands off approach and weren't as affected by it, he'd be okay to let it continue??!

Sorry, but he sounds utterly useless/lazy. You do sound lovely OP btw but this isn't something you can fix

I don't think he has realised the seriousness of it, and just has just seen it as normal sister bickering. It's only me, his sister, his mother etc banging on to him about it that it isn't normal and is a problem that needs addressing that has opened his eyes. He seemed genuinely surprised.

I trust now he sees it as an issue he will take steps to address it, and will be watching his reaction closely. I suppose that will be the true decider of whether he is a lazy parent or not.

He truly is very good in every single other way; kind and loving (with me and the kids), generous, very hardworking, proactive (except with this) - which is why I've stuck with it. I think I'd struggle to find anyone else again who I loved as much. I just don't think the practical / unpleasant sides of parenting come very naturally to him, and he has a lot of residual guilt from the divorce that translates into being too soft with the kids. He's admitted that himself.

That sounds hopeful and now he understands the gravity of it, hopefully there will be some positive change.

I can sympathise with the guilt from the divorce as even though my ex had an affair and left me, I for some reason have incredible guilt that I've not given my daughter a "normal" upbringing in a nuclear happy family.

I can be too soft and spoil her at times and I know this isn't great. However, if it was to get to the point where she was violent towards her sibling, I would absolutely draw the line.

Surely he has the same guilt towards both his daughters so it doesn't make sense that he'd let one of them physically abuse the other...as he's then not over compensating for the youngest as she's suffering even more as a result of him being too soft on the eldest

I don't think it's as simple as back off as some posters are saying. Whilst they are in your home you are in loco parentis and have a duty of care to them. But it's not a case of taking over either as your partner has parental rights! So it's like a walking a tight rope at times.

We have had a challenging time with my step children and after months of fire fighting enough was enough and we had to get to the root cause of it to solve the issue. We came to the conclusion that one child in particular was making bad decisions which impacted their relationships, friendships, behaviour because they were basing them on selfishness, insecurity and lack of awareness and empathy of others. So we sat together and came up with our family values. Such as resilience, be kind, be humble, appreciation. Every time they come over they have a diary where they write down how they met one of the values. We use the language of values in every day discussions. They also have rewards attached to them. They pick out a post it note from their box when they achieved one, half are blank which reminds them that we don't do these things for reward, one has a high value prize and the others are little things like some sweets or a magazine etc. it's been great, it's set up over a year, we have done one year so far and it's amazing to read the lovely things they have achieved over that year, they use the language and point out when one of the others have done something. My husband and I do it too and it's really helped them see that these are values for life. The child that sparked it off has improved so much and this child wasn't in a good place has a social worker who loves it took lots of pictures of their diaries and uses the language.

We got to a point of exhaustion but this is technique has certainly helped.

We also get them to write down how it makes them feel when they achieve- some of the things they have written has been real tear jerkers! But it just shows how far they have come.

How long have you been in this relationship and what did this Prince among Men do for childcare before you dropped from the heavens?

He is a shit dad. Really. His entire family are telling you and you’re deluded if you think he’ll change. Why should he? He has other people to worry about that shit.

You say his ex is combative- perhaps the nasty you’re seeing in SD is the personality traits she’s picking up at home?

Are they living in your home? He moved in with you?

If so he needs to move out again, spend proper time with his kids, maybe even take them on as Resident Parent

None of this is your problem and you’re literally the only ‘parent’ bothering. SD doesn’t want your attention, it’s her parents who need to step up… they won’t while you’re on the scene

These are not your kids, yet your life is being blighted by the whole sorry situation

Take back your life and be there in the sidelines if you genuinely can’t wake up and smell the coffee. Your P is a waste of skin and fgs never ever contemplate marrying this guy or worse having kids with him.

@Littlepaws18 this sounds like a really good idea and I know the 5 yo would love it, but I just don't know how we'd sell it to the 11 yo and for her to buy into it. She's at an age where everything a bit touchy-feely is "stupid". I know the mention of family values would bring forth the biggest eye-roll that has ever eye-rolled, no doubt coupled with sarcastic comments and flouncing for our efforts.

I wonder if a slightly adapted version of it though could work. How old we're your SC when you implemented this and how did you persuade them, or did they just like the idea straight away?

Just imagine having a relationship with a real man who didn’t come with this crap, the baggage and the hassle of the hard work with absolutely no benefit

Just imagine the peace and serenity of a chilled weekend/evening without all of this mess.

Your DP has let off a bomb in your life here. And for what?

@MzHz

How long have you been in this relationship and what did this Prince among Men do for childcare before you dropped from the heavens?

He is a shit dad. Really. His entire family are telling you and you’re deluded if you think he’ll change. Why should he? He has other people to worry about that shit.

You say his ex is combative- perhaps the nasty you’re seeing in SD is the personality traits she’s picking up at home?

Are they living in your home? He moved in with you?

If so he needs to move out again, spend proper time with his kids, maybe even take them on as Resident Parent

None of this is your problem and you’re literally the only ‘parent’ bothering. SD doesn’t want your attention, it’s her parents who need to step up… they won’t while you’re on the scene

These are not your kids, yet your life is being blighted by the whole sorry situation

Take back your life and be there in the sidelines if you genuinely can’t wake up and smell the coffee. Your P is a waste of skin and fgs never ever contemplate marrying this guy or worse having kids with him.

No - I'm living in his home.

And too late I'm afraid for your last point - already expecting. The kids don't know yet. Having suffered three miscarriages with a previous partner and multiple failed IVF rounds I'd never consider anything but having the baby. So I'm in the situation I'm in and will have to make the best of it.

Despite this I'd be reluctant to throw in the towel so quickly anyway, leave a man I love because of an 11 yo's behaviour and his recently lax parenting, which he has now promised to address. That seems extreme when every other aspect of our relationship is working.

I believe both him and my SD at least deserve some time to put this right.

And failing everything - I own a flat (rented out) I could move into if the worst comes to the worst, professional qualifications and a good career which I don't plan to give up. It wouldn't be ideal, going it alone - I'd much rather do it with him - but I'd cope as I've always coped.

I just don't want it to come to that over something that can be resolved.

You can’t change him.

You know who he is and it won’t change.

He’s had 11 years to work it out and he’s leaving it all to you.

:(

Good luck in all that you do.

They were 7,9 and 11. The buy in was the reward as they got to chose what was on the post it notes ( I set a limit of monetary value) but after a while it became more than the reward. They set the values, we had a stick man (person) and around it I got them to write what makes a good person- but hen we chose 5 to follow and do. It was interesting too because one week one got nothing and the other two got their top prize. Also though this was a bit of work I created a passport listing ideas of what is 'to be kind' or 'resilient' it wasn't just a case they could say oh I was kind today because I said hello to someone. Also once they ticked that point off they needed to do others not just come back with the same story each week. It came from a secondary school and I adapted it. Most do a reward and consequences type thing and I just mashed it all together. I have to admit they were all on board to try it which made it easier. But the rewards were definitely what sparked their enthusiasm at first!