To further 'assist' exw for dcs sake?

[JJfish70]

Good morning everyone.
A friend has directed me to this place so hopefully I can get some advice here.
I am a dad of three aged 22, 18 and 16. My exw and I are divorced for 10 years & we were separated for 2 years previous to our divorce so are12 years apart in total. There was no one else involved on either side, we just were totally incompatible and should never have gotten married. Our eldest was unplanned and we tried to create a family together but it just did not work.
My exw had just left a job when we met and has not worked outside the home since. When we split we agreed I would keep working and she would stay minding the children. I have a good job that involves a fair bit of travelling and I fully appreciated that this made her going out to work while the children were small difficult, as my schedule changes from month to month. This was reflected in our divorce settlement. I pay well over cms which I am more than happy to do. I also undertook to pay for all school extras such as trips etc. and all third level. I have just finished off paying the mortgage on my exw's house which she now owns outright. She also received a six figure lump sum in lieu of spousal maintenance.
I should add that she also moved to the far end of the country to be close to family. This meant I also had to purchase a small property for myself near her home in order to see and spend time with my children.
Now the current issues I'm facing are as follows.
Exw has never gone back to work despite the children getting older and more independent and despite me offering to pay for childcare if needed. She has also proven herself to be very bad with handling money and I am regularly contacted buy my children who say she has no money to give them for shoes, haircuts, that type of thing. She herself has also contacted me looking for money when something happens like her car breaking down. She is always complaining I don't give her enough and says she has gone through the lump sum. How, I don't know, but comments from the children would seem to back this up.
When my eldest turned 18 I stopped his maintenance but give him an allowance & pay for his third level. When he is at his mums and not in his accommodation I have told him to use his allowance to contribute to his mums household which he does. My daughter is 18 and not finishing A levels until this summer so I still pay her maintenance but plan on doing for her what I have done for my eldest once she starts college.
This means the only 'income' going into my exw's house will be the maintenance for my youngest son who has two more years left in school.
My exw is now kicking off massively and demanding I give her more money which my solicitor has emphatically said I should not do. However when I say no she threatens to sell the house and move to another town where some other family members live and threatens to pull our youngest out of school where he is very happy. This could all be bluster but the cold fact is that she is not going to be able to run a house on £200 a week given her lack of money management, her past history and no savings, so I think she will end up doing something drastic like selling her house.
I still travel a lot for work and I have been in a relationship with a wonderful woman for the past 6 years. She lives in the south of the country and has been remarkably understanding and patient of my situation and the fact that I have to spend so much time at the far end of the country because of my children. It has long been my plan to sell my home in the town where my children live once my youngest goes to college and to use the equity to buy an 'our' home with my partner. However I am now extremely worried that my exw will just sell up and even if she doesn't do it now she will do it in a few years and my children will have no home to go back to as she says she will move in with a sister where there would be no room for our children, and will live off the proceeds of the house sale. They of course know they are always welcome at mine and my partners but their lives are in the north as are their friends & their colleges of choice.
At the moment I'm feeling that I should maybe give her my house up there to live in and thus provide some stability for my youngest as he goes through A Levels and let her sell her house and bank the money. Another part of me feels I should put the house in my children's names as their inheritance and they and she can live there as long as they want.
Either way if I go down any of these roads I am giving up buying a home with my partner. I'm very torn as I am worried about my children and their stability but I also feel I deserve to start living my life now they are all older. I am a fairly successful businessman but I have very little surplus personal money as it has all gone on the divorce settlement and on my children and I cannot afford to keep housing them all AND purchase with my partner.
My family members all tell me I'm mad to keep bailing her out but none of them are divorced so they don't really understand my worries regarding my children who will all still need a base until they go out in the world and get jobs.
My partner has a very good and very specific job and I don't feel it would be fair to ask her to give all that up to move miles away just to provide a base for my adult children especially as I would still be travelling for a few more years and they would be coming and going from college. However I also feel it's unfair of me to keep expecting her to keep living this half relationship with me given our ages and the ages of my children.
If anyone has any ideas I would really appreciate it as I'm getting to a stage where I cannot see a way through.

OP, other than continuing to support your ex wife ,it does not sound as though you have had to do anything that financially sufficient and parents vested in providing a good education and a good quality of life do not do on a regular and routine basis.

It seems as though you have not been as physically available and present for your children as they might have hoped for - given your travel schedule and the fact that you do not live near them.

You have met whatever obligation of support that you had to your ex. Now you need only provide for your children. What is problematic about your 16 calling to ask for funds. If he were living with you, you would not find that even remotely off putting.

My spouse and I , kept our premarital assets separate and placed them in trust for our respective children. We each owned property and had no need to purchase yet another home solely for everyday living. He moved into my house and we share living expenses.

I would assume that your new partner ,like yourself, is financially sufficient and independent. If there is not some pressing need for you to own yet another property, why not have him/her purchase their own home and you simply share expenses. This would prevent any need for you to become involved in any future estate issues.

My husband and I are going to purchase a summer place. This will be our first and only joint property purchase. We will purchase it as tenants in common and concurrent with the purchase we will each pot our interest in the property in trust for our respective children.

Perhaps you should meet with a lawyer or estate planner and get advice regarding a plan to manage financial resources in a separate and discrete pool .

Do not let anyone convenience you that you are doing more for your children than a good and well positioned father should and would happily do. Both my husband and my children's father generously support their children, but that was their plan and commitment when they each decided to have children, however, both married women who were equally committed to being financially sufficient providers in their own right.

She says things like if you don't get my car fixed your children will have to go to school in the rain. One Christmas she threatened not to do Santa unless I gave her more money.

I think you need counselling to address your divorced dad guilt. Seriously.

And to consider the extent to which you’ve enabled and encouraged this situation over the years.

So what if the children have to walk to school in the rain. Honestly. They wouldn’t have melted. Loads of children walk to school in the rain every day. They put on suitable clothing and get on with it.

Saying no and that she should get a job if she doesn’t have enough money to live off would have done them all a favour.

Similarly, any mother who wouldn’t buy Christmas presents for their children because she wanted to extort money from their father is despicable. The better thing to do would be to have called her bluff - and made sure that you did a lovely Christmas for them with you regardless.

You sound so lovely.

It's a pity your youngest can't go to a good boarding school as this is no way for him to live at all. He shouldn't have to worry about money.

Many young people study in the north and go home to the south. I think it's time for you to offer and provide a base for your adult children. If they need somewhere to come they know where you are.

You shouldn't miss out on a new life with your partner because of this tyrant. Not buying Santa gifts...! You have to cut the ties. It's impressive to keep the wheels on this and you've done so long enough, without particularly benefiting your youngest by this point.

@Tattler2

OP, other than continuing to support your ex wife ,it does not sound as though you have had to do anything that financially sufficient and parents vested in providing a good education and a good quality of life do not do on a regular and routine basis.

It seems as though you have not been as physically available and present for your children as they might have hoped for - given your travel schedule and the fact that you do not live near them.

You have met whatever obligation of support that you had to your ex. Now you need only provide for your children. What is problematic about your 16 calling to ask for funds. If he were living with you, you would not find that even remotely off putting.

My spouse and I , kept our premarital assets separate and placed them in trust for our respective children. We each owned property and had no need to purchase yet another home solely for everyday living. He moved into my house and we share living expenses.

I would assume that your new partner ,like yourself, is financially sufficient and independent. If there is not some pressing need for you to own yet another property, why not have him/her purchase their own home and you simply share expenses. This would prevent any need for you to become involved in any future estate issues.

My husband and I are going to purchase a summer place. This will be our first and only joint property purchase. We will purchase it as tenants in common and concurrent with the purchase we will each pot our interest in the property in trust for our respective children.

Perhaps you should meet with a lawyer or estate planner and get advice regarding a plan to manage financial resources in a separate and discrete pool .

Do not let anyone convenience you that you are doing more for your children than a good and well positioned father should and would happily do. Both my husband and my children's father generously support their children, but that was their plan and commitment when they each decided to have children, however, both married women who were equally committed to being financially sufficient providers in their own right.

How have you made this about OP protecting his assets from his new partner?

You have completely ignored the true issue, which is that OP's ex refuses to work to support her own household and is trying to blackmail OP into continuing to cover her living costs.

This mother does ZERO to support her children financially and yet you have still made it a problem about a new partner Tattler, even though OP has barely even mentioned her.

It's frustrating how you always manage to turn everything into a problem with the new partner even when it's not relevant and there is a huge problem with the ex.

You’ve given her a house, paid for it, a six figure sum on top.

The kids have a home to live in if your ex wife does strop off (I don’t think she’ll go through with it.) you can let them live in your property near there and support them directly to help them

You have done enough for the ex. She could have joined the dots and put by some savings. She can raise finance on the house you’ve given her, anything, it’s not your problem anymore

Stop letting her weaponise the kids. Call her bluff and know that there is a home for your kids if they need one.

@Glitterygreen
I specifically stated that he has met any obligation that he may have had to his ex and that her future is hers to manage.

Given the ages of his children, his evidently long career, what I assume to be his age etc , I questioned whether he really has a need to purchase a property. Clearly he does not have well articulated and implemented plans is regards to asset management. My only thoughts were he might better position himself by meeting with a financial manager, establishing a plan and in the immediate future avoid joint financial entanglement of any sort. He is asking strangers should he continue on as the retirement plan for an ex from whom he has been divorced many years. This does not sound like someone who is not easily susceptible and manipulated.

A financial planner would have no vested interest in anything but the best interest of the client. His past,present, or future partners have interest that involve themselves; that is not a concern that a financial planner or estate manager will have.

@Tattler2 I am very happy to provide for my children and I was very happy to do right by my exw. However she has mismanaged every thing she got in the divorce settlement to the extent that my children now phone me for money for incidentals. They should not have to do this as incidentals were factored into the maintenance awarded.
I would like to buy a home with my partner and feel no need to protect my assets from her. We would like an our home for our future and retirement and I see nothing wrong with that.

@JJfish70 what does your partner say/ think about the ‘our’ home not happening for another few years? Have you discussed it with her?

If I was in your situation, my best compromise would be to retain the flat/ home until the youngest is 18 and at that point sell and buy a home with your partner. Moving schools at 16 is not ideal. So continue the existing situation for another 2 years.

I do feel you have made a rod for your own back here and sorry to say but this has been your exw’s game all along - to extort the absolute maximum from you.

[quote JJfish70]@Tattler2 I am very happy to provide for my children and I was very happy to do right by my exw. However she has mismanaged every thing she got in the divorce settlement to the extent that my children now phone me for money for incidentals. They should not have to do this as incidentals were factored into the maintenance awarded.
I would like to buy a home with my partner and feel no need to protect my assets from her. We would like an our home for our future and retirement and I see nothing wrong with that. [/quote]
Your basic obligations towards your children that involve their mother are to pay maintenance for them until they finish their compulsory schooling. At the CMS rate at that.

I’d suggest that you ignore her entirely. Pay her only the basic CMS rate of maintenance and give your children the additional money she had previously been getting beyond that as an allowance. They can use that to buy their shoes and get haircuts if they choose.

This has an advantage of giving them a bit of financial responsibility to manage their own money. It would be good for them to say that they can’t have additional money because they need to manage that allowance better.

And get some counselling to sort out why you are still so driven by guilt about the divorce and the subsequent contact arrangements around your work that you are in this ridiculous situation now.

Then plan a life with your partner, giving your ex wife no more power over you or headspace even.

I say this as an ex wife myself but is she really expecting you to support her for the rest of her life? The day I stopped getting maintenance for my daughter when she turned 18 was a very happy one as it meant I could cut all ties with the ex. Anything he does to support her financially through uni he now does direct with her. You have no responsibility towards your ex wife and she needs to get herself a job.

@JJfish70
I probably wouldn't have made some of the decisions that you made particularly as relates to your ex. I probably would have made comparable decisions regarding the support of my children. I think that people have right to make whatever decisions related to money that they think best for them. No obligation to make decisions that seem reasonable to others.

In similar circumstances, I probably would not ask internet strangers for financial advice; nor having once made questionable financial decisions with one partner would I move to become financially linked with yet another partner particularly for something related to property.

What I would do is seek advice from financial professionals who have no potential for personal gain in the strategies that they are recommending.
However, only you have to live with the outcomes of whatever you decide to do, and clearly you have a high tolerance for relatively unorthodox arrangements. You are probably going to be comfortable living with whatever you decide to do. A man or woman with reasonable/adequate financial resources is not likely to be without a home no matter what.

We've been down a similar path to this OP. Exw worked 2.5 days a week in a professional job that would have offered her full time work until the very day maintenance ended. She used this time to alienate the kids to the point that DSD walked into our house aged 14 and started questioning my husband about how much the contents of his fridge cost and shrieked "you bought vodka?? You should be spending that money on me".

Over time we setup an allowance for the kids due to his very generous maintenance not being spent on the kids (the kids told us they lived like paupers and it was pretty much true) whilst the ex wife bought a brand new 4x4 and extended her already large house. But during this time the kids showed up with no winter coat in the middle of winter, trousers 3 inches too short and trainers that were split. You get the picture.

Now DSS sees his mother in a very different light. He's left school, got a very good job and is paying through the nose to live at his mums (he could come and live with us no problem but we're in a rural village and he's a social butterfly so he's declined the offer) we'll help him get on the property ladder when the time comes though.

Once we setup an allowance for the kids and paid for their phone contracts, bought them cars etc it did change the dynamic. It taught our youngest the value of money, he saved for fancy items but he wanted for nothing and DH could happily say no to the incidental things that ExW asked for every 5 mins. And it destroyed any opportunity for the exW to use the kids as a weapon to extort money.

With regard to the kids, it might take some years before they realise how grasping your exW is, so I wouldn’t give in to her because of any pressure from your 16 year old.

In their world, the way they get “stuff” is when your ex manipulates/blackmails you and you give in. This is normal for them. Your youngest may take you saying no as a personal affront which is probably a good reason to start setting some boundaries. You don’t want them growing up thinking money comes from manipulation

What? Just give your kids money for themselves. If she wants money she can get off her arse and work like everyone else. I don't know why you'd countenance anything else. She's taking the piss.

OP have you noticed there is a general consensus on this thread?

As another poster suggested get counselling so you can see that not putting in boundaries with your ex-wife is harming your future and more importantly your children's futures. You are giving her money and resources that are yours and theirs not hers.

Just to add another point, if I was your new partner I would be furious that you're still throwing money at your ex like this and potentially putting on hold plans for the two of you to put down roots together. Again, I am saying this from experience in that I have remarried and my husband supports his kids (obviously) but definitely not his ex wife.

@tiredofthisshit21
I think it is fair to say that a man who has been legally divorced for 10 year or more and who owns both property and a successful business is fully capable of setting down roots regardless of any elective things happening with ex.

A wise man would be looking to avoid the entanglements in the future that have lead to his current situation. He cannot change his past but he can structure his future to avoid the pitfalls and poor decision.making that has led to his current conundrum.

Second marriage provide both parties of a certain maturity to come into a situation with individual resources, retirement plans/packages well in place. Neither should be in a position where the ability to establish roots is contingent upon or tied to a relationship that was legally ended 10'years prior

@Tattler2 I don't disagree with any of that but I still stand by my statement that if I was his new partner I would be pissed off at him still supporting the ex wife. It doesn't matter how much money he has, he only has responsibility to support the kids (who mostly aren't even kids any more, to be fair).

Don't give another house to your ex wife incase she sells the first one you gave her! I assume you paid her mortgage because you wanted a home for your children?

If she does go through with the sale, you could let your children live in your other house or put it in their name. Not hers!

I wouldn't tell anyone this was an option, however, as you would potentially just be incentivising her to sell their home.

Actually, thinking about it, I'd call her bluff. If it happens, then see what you can do to help your youngest. But if he has to move away and come and live with you instead, that is not the end of the world, it happens. She could avoid it by getting a part time job for a few years at least until he finishes school.

How would she describe things? Your post is quite one sided with you exclusively dutiful and her exclusively fiscally irresponsible, reality is rarely that clear cut. Do you understand that the only reason you’ve been able to centre your life around work is because she’s where the buck stops for childcare?

You could take a pay cut and pay her less but be around more for your kids, I suspect you enjoy the lifestyle your income brings and would prefer not to do this. It’s a choice, one she isn’t able to make but you are.

Why in the name of God are you still financially supporting this woman? 2 of your children are adults and while I think it's nice to help out adults they are old enough to support themselves. This woman seems to have had everything but your blood. Time to tell her to sling her hook IMHO

To add: most modern maintenance agreements through court suggest the child is supported until the end of their first degree so I don’t think you should make any material change for at least 7 years if your youngest is 16. Do you really want him moving house in an exam Year or going to uni and having no room to come home to?

Could you essentially call her bluff and see if she follows through to put it up for sale? It will take a while - enough time to get your middle child through A Levels. Then your youngest could have your local home or maybe you could rent it out to your ex to live there with him til he finishes school. Or if not for him to live with home help.