To further 'assist' exw for dcs sake?

[JJfish70]

Good morning everyone.
A friend has directed me to this place so hopefully I can get some advice here.
I am a dad of three aged 22, 18 and 16. My exw and I are divorced for 10 years & we were separated for 2 years previous to our divorce so are12 years apart in total. There was no one else involved on either side, we just were totally incompatible and should never have gotten married. Our eldest was unplanned and we tried to create a family together but it just did not work.
My exw had just left a job when we met and has not worked outside the home since. When we split we agreed I would keep working and she would stay minding the children. I have a good job that involves a fair bit of travelling and I fully appreciated that this made her going out to work while the children were small difficult, as my schedule changes from month to month. This was reflected in our divorce settlement. I pay well over cms which I am more than happy to do. I also undertook to pay for all school extras such as trips etc. and all third level. I have just finished off paying the mortgage on my exw's house which she now owns outright. She also received a six figure lump sum in lieu of spousal maintenance.
I should add that she also moved to the far end of the country to be close to family. This meant I also had to purchase a small property for myself near her home in order to see and spend time with my children.
Now the current issues I'm facing are as follows.
Exw has never gone back to work despite the children getting older and more independent and despite me offering to pay for childcare if needed. She has also proven herself to be very bad with handling money and I am regularly contacted buy my children who say she has no money to give them for shoes, haircuts, that type of thing. She herself has also contacted me looking for money when something happens like her car breaking down. She is always complaining I don't give her enough and says she has gone through the lump sum. How, I don't know, but comments from the children would seem to back this up.
When my eldest turned 18 I stopped his maintenance but give him an allowance & pay for his third level. When he is at his mums and not in his accommodation I have told him to use his allowance to contribute to his mums household which he does. My daughter is 18 and not finishing A levels until this summer so I still pay her maintenance but plan on doing for her what I have done for my eldest once she starts college.
This means the only 'income' going into my exw's house will be the maintenance for my youngest son who has two more years left in school.
My exw is now kicking off massively and demanding I give her more money which my solicitor has emphatically said I should not do. However when I say no she threatens to sell the house and move to another town where some other family members live and threatens to pull our youngest out of school where he is very happy. This could all be bluster but the cold fact is that she is not going to be able to run a house on £200 a week given her lack of money management, her past history and no savings, so I think she will end up doing something drastic like selling her house.
I still travel a lot for work and I have been in a relationship with a wonderful woman for the past 6 years. She lives in the south of the country and has been remarkably understanding and patient of my situation and the fact that I have to spend so much time at the far end of the country because of my children. It has long been my plan to sell my home in the town where my children live once my youngest goes to college and to use the equity to buy an 'our' home with my partner. However I am now extremely worried that my exw will just sell up and even if she doesn't do it now she will do it in a few years and my children will have no home to go back to as she says she will move in with a sister where there would be no room for our children, and will live off the proceeds of the house sale. They of course know they are always welcome at mine and my partners but their lives are in the north as are their friends & their colleges of choice.
At the moment I'm feeling that I should maybe give her my house up there to live in and thus provide some stability for my youngest as he goes through A Levels and let her sell her house and bank the money. Another part of me feels I should put the house in my children's names as their inheritance and they and she can live there as long as they want.
Either way if I go down any of these roads I am giving up buying a home with my partner. I'm very torn as I am worried about my children and their stability but I also feel I deserve to start living my life now they are all older. I am a fairly successful businessman but I have very little surplus personal money as it has all gone on the divorce settlement and on my children and I cannot afford to keep housing them all AND purchase with my partner.
My family members all tell me I'm mad to keep bailing her out but none of them are divorced so they don't really understand my worries regarding my children who will all still need a base until they go out in the world and get jobs.
My partner has a very good and very specific job and I don't feel it would be fair to ask her to give all that up to move miles away just to provide a base for my adult children especially as I would still be travelling for a few more years and they would be coming and going from college. However I also feel it's unfair of me to keep expecting her to keep living this half relationship with me given our ages and the ages of my children.
If anyone has any ideas I would really appreciate it as I'm getting to a stage where I cannot see a way through.

@Glitterygreen her plan, she says, is to sell the house, move in with her sister and live off the proceeds of the house sale. The house is now mortgage free so she would have a very decent lump sum.

[quote JJfish70]@Glitterygreen her plan, she says, is to sell the house, move in with her sister and live off the proceeds of the house sale. The house is now mortgage free so she would have a very decent lump sum.[/quote]
If she would happily do this knowing it left her youngest child homeless then they'd be better off living with you anyway.

@Igneo I am most definitely not addicted to the money. My personal assets consist of the house up north and very little else. Every penny I make has gone on my exw and children. I have a successful business but a business is a separate entity to personal money and I cannot liquidate that business and 'pay myself off' until I reach 65 without there being massive tax implications.

@Bananarama21 the eldest is in uni. I give him an allowance & have told him when he's home from uni to contribute to his mums household to cover his costs, which he does.

Let her get on with it. Under absolutely no circumstances offer to let her live in the property you own.

@Blahblahblah40 thank you. I think your suggestion to give my son the option of moving with his mum (if she moves) or staying in my house up north with home help when I'm not there is a great idea and I can't believe I never thought of it. I would say he'd rather that than moving down south to me and my partner as I would still be traveling at times and he doesn't like my partner enough to negate the effects of moving. He and my partner get on just fine but due to distance and logistics they have more of a pally relationship than a close bond.

Your ex needs to get off her arse and get a job, youve been more than fair to her.

And to all of you, yes I have enabled her massively. It's hard to see all that written down. I did it to avoid conflict for my children but it was probably not the best road to go down. I love my children dearly but I can see that they are not particularly resilient and are far too dependent on me. For everything, not just money.

This is bonkers. Your ex is using the kids as a weapon and playing on your dad guilt, heavily.

The problem with capitulating for the children is she knows now you will so push's that button every single time. I feel for you I really do and I don't often feel that way.

You know this is abusive behaviour on your ex's part. I suspect it's been going on for so long you will shy away feom that term but it's abuse. Period.

Keep the 16 year old with you in your flat, he doesn't need baby sitting anymore you can work around him until he leaves when he decides what he's gonna do, make plans to sell up and start new life.

This is bonkers. The money train will end and you need to have some boundaries or the mum will just bounce her expectations from you to the kids.

OP your youngest is old enough to have a bank account with a debit card, though they aren't allowed to go overdrawn.

Give your youngest a monthly clothes and entertainment allowance that is theirs to spend on non-school clothing and other bits. I would also add their lunch money to this and a small amount for presents for their siblings and mother.

It is then for your child to budget to get things e.g. if they want new trainers then they know they can't spend loads on lunch. If they spend loads on lunch then they can't go to the cinema.

Explain to the child how you worked out the amount they need - you can consult their eldest sibling if you need help on working out the amount they need.

Tell the child they are not to give this money to their mother under any circumstances.

Then if the child phones you up demanding money simply say they have an allowance and you don't have any more money this month to give them.

If they then move into your place on their own increase the allowance to cover other stuff they need.

There are children in my own family plus others I know who from aged 16 due to varying circumstances were independent like this.

How big is the house you own in the north? Is it big enough for all three kids to use it as a base?

[quote JJfish70]@Blahblahblah40 thank you. I think your suggestion to give my son the option of moving with his mum (if she moves) or staying in my house up north with home help when I'm not there is a great idea and I can't believe I never thought of it. I would say he'd rather that than moving down south to me and my partner as I would still be traveling at times and he doesn't like my partner enough to negate the effects of moving. He and my partner get on just fine but due to distance and logistics they have more of a pally relationship than a close bond.[/quote]
It’s basically an au-pair but for a 16 year old. They aren’t there to parent, but are there to be a responsible adult and avoid anything bad happening and to do the basics. If you have a spare room then offer it as live-in for a fixed period (e.g. until DC finishes school) with PVG checks etc. If you are prepared to be there at weekends or he goes to his Mum then that’s a good balance. You’d have to negotiate who was the main carer though, I’d say your solicitor could help with that, because you don’t want to have to keep paying her maintenance if you are providing a full-time home and childcare for DC.

She has become so accustomed to you supporting her that she is trying to manipulate you into continuing. Your eldest is old enough to stand on their own 2 feet and you're also providing an allowance.
Your DD is almost old enough to be self sufficient and you have continued to pay towards her keep.

Your ex should also be consider the need to keep a roof over your 2 younger children's heads. She has no mortgage and you continue to provide maintenance - this cannot be solely your responsibility.

Under no circumstances would I give her your small northern house. I would however, consider allowing your youngest (when he turns 18) to live there whilst at college if he truly has nowhere else to stay due to his mums irresponsible decisions. However, this would be until he is able to work and support himself. There's no need to provide a family home for them all to yo-yo to and from once they are self supporting. Make plans for yourself and your partner, even if it means waiting a few more years to provide stability for your youngest.

I think tht as long as your children are in FT education and living at home you should continue to contribute to their upkeep if they are not eligible for student finance. The costs of keeping a roof over the head of an 18 year old at uni are the same as the costs of an 18 year old at school. If the student receives student finance then some of it should go towards their upkeep.

Your ex, of course, also needs to get an income of her own. How long is it since she worked? Does she claim benefits as well as get the child maintenance?

Call her bluff.

@Gingerkittykat I pay my eldest uni fees and accommodation. I also give him an allowance and have told him to contribute this allowance to his mums house when he's there.
I will do exactly the same for my daughter next year.
Therefore there is money going into the house when they choose to be there.

Do your DCs “see” what is going on? Do you think the DCs know what she is threatening?

I’d be heartbroken if my mum abandoned me because - basically - I was no longer of financial benefit to her. Fuck, that’s cold.

Children/childcare.....
Your youngest is 16 why on earth would you need to offer to pay childcare?

Two words as to how I feel your wife sees you primarily....gravy train

She had a huge lump sum,
Opted to move away and as such still expects further £ via the kids asking you, knowing you shan't say no

I did it to avoid conflict for my children but it was probably not the best road to go down

My dh did exactly the same with his ex, and for the same reasons. But doesn't avoid the conflict, it just pushes it further down the road and it becomes bigger and harder to resolve every time.

But isn't hindsight a wonderful thing....

In this situation, I am your current partner. You are my fiancé, who unfortunately has been in this for years with a woman who uses her their son as a weapon. Little differences are that they weren't married or anything they were just dating for a few weeks, however when there are then kids/a child involved none of that matters and it just becomes about the child. I'd say please just be upfront and honest, can you sit your kids down and speak to them, everything you've shared here, they're adults not babies, they'll be able to understand what's going on.
You're right, kids are older now and so are you, you should be enjoying your freedom now and only looking after your kids, not your ex wife! She has clearly not planned ahead or gotten herself any working experience, you shouldn't have to compensate for that for the rest of your life. If this is what she's like now, with 3 grown up kids, then where does it end?
Draw the line now I say, stay in touch with the kids and move on..
All the best xx

@JJfish70

Thank you all for your replies and you have all just reiterated what my family have said to me. To address a few things. Exw threatens a lot but I always capitulate. I know this is not good but when you're away in another country with work and you child is on the phone saying mum has no money to buy new trainers what do you do? She says things like if you don't get my car fixed your children will have to go to school in the rain. One Christmas she threatened not to do Santa unless I gave her more money. That was years ago and I didn't give in to her. I had bought my own Santa gifts for the children but found myself having to spend Christmas Eve buying whatever toys I could lay my hands on for her house as she had followed through on that threat and had bought them nothing. I think that experience scarred me & I have probably given in too much since. Her threats regarding the house might be just that but I don't trust her. I do know that if she stays put I will have my 16 year old on the phone every day for the two years looking for extra money as his maintenance alone will not be able to cover the household costs. I have tried to talk to my youngest about switching schools to come down south but he insists he won't do that and gets quite upset when we discuss it. I'm not in a position to become a resident parent due to my job schedule and as it is my job that is funding everything including third level education for three, cutting back or retiring is not viable for a good few more years. I appreciate that my exw has been impacted by my job which is another reason I have tended to give it to her. I could let my 16 year old live in my house up there but I don't know if that would be a great idea. He's a great child but I'll admit that I don't think he'd be the best at keeping himself if I had to be away for a stretch. I feel like every turn is a dead end with a brick wall and there is no solution whereby both I and my children can be happy.

Just because your family have never been divorced does not mean their advice is invalid, they can see it for what it is as I've no doubt 90% of your replies on here will attest

@BobLemon I think they do see it but alot of the time choose not to. I have always felt I shouldn't give out about her to them as that's what all the divorce professionals tell you not to do.
They are aware of how money centric she is and the boys I hate to say are a little like that too. My daughter is more clued in I think and more of a critical thinker. Funnily my daughter is also the one who gels best with my partner and who has a lot in common with my partner.

I’m not going to say you’ve been more than fair, as I think what you’ve done should be the standard, children should be fully supported.

I don’t think your wrong to now give the money to the kids when they turn 18. That’s the done thing and your ex will need to get a job to support herself.

If she wants to be a bitch to her youngest child she is no fit mother…..at 16 s/he could technically move into the house you have down there and support themselves with your help.

She needs a job.

On the other hand it’s 2 more years and then you won’t need to have anything more to do with her…bet you can’t wait!

I believe you've acted decently, children should always be fully supported. That said, your ex-wife is exploiting not only your good nature, but also the entire situation. In life we need to separate that which we are responsible for and that which is the responsibility of others. You are responsible for supporting your children; you are. You were required, by matrimonial law to agree a settlement with your wife; you did. Your wife is responsible for creating and sustaining her new life; she has not. Your wife is responsible for supporting the children using what sounds like generous child support; she is not.

Never capitulate to a bully. It encourages their behavior. This will not end unless you end it. I'd say better recalibrate the situation now while she still receives CM for your youngest rather than face it when your eldest turns 18. Her reaction will likely be much worse when the tap completely turns off.

As a parent your children look to you as a compass for their values, morals etc - In your shoes I would ask myself, is this what I want to teach my children?