Deliberate exclusion of dad from school life.

[ThisMustBeMyDream]

DSD came home with her dad today to spend half the holiday with him. She was star of the week at school today, and had been given the class bear to spend the half term with her. They are asked to take photographs of the bear joining in whatever you are doing, and send them in (she is in reception).
She was upset as she hadn't brought the bear with her because "mummy said no". DP (and me) placated her, and empathised at her feelings. We came up with an idea that daddy would draw the bear for her (this is his special skill ) and she could take her pictures with her drawing and we would write a story of how the bear had an adventure without her and sent her his picture instead for her to take out.
The bigger question is why would mummy say no? Well, why exactly? This is just another thing in a long line of things to make sure DP has nothing to do with any aspect of her schooling. She would be absolutely furious at the idea of DP sending in pictures of her and the bear. But it isn't about her feelings, it's about poor dsd who just wants to enjoy time with both her parents.
She has refused to allow DP to collect her from school on the one occasion so far he has been able to (today, his half term started 2 days earlier, so he would have been able to collect her - he's a primary teacher). The court order allows for this, as holiday contact is stipulated as the moment school finishes for a holiday. But she point blank refused. So he had to go and collect her over an hour later. No other option.
When he rang the school last year shortly after she started nursery, she kicked off massively. He rang to speak to the nursery teacher as he wanted to be involved with her education. He asked about separate parents evening, being added to class dojo, letters sent home etc. Yet mum demanded that he never contact the school again. Anything to do with school he should speak to her about and that he should have no need to speak to them. Of course he ignored this ridiculous demand. If he has needed to communicate with them, he has. The reason she knew about the conversation was because the person who answered the phone to him when he rang and explained who he was and why he was calling went straight to her and told her (she had just started as a TA there).
She has never allowed a reading book home with her (they've had them since the end of nursery). So DP has not been able to add to her reading record as obviously that isn't allowed by mum either. So he just does his own books with her, but she wants her reading book, but says "mummy says no".
She has never allowed a picture to come home with for him, even though dsd tells him she drew him one.
Father's day she arrived for the weekend upset because the card she made him had been "given to grandad because he said he wanted it". Luckily she was able to tell me what the card was, and we made an identical one together to give to her dad.
In a recent section 7 report her teacher reported dsd is very reluctant to talk about dad in school, and will say she doesn't have a dad often when asked. The report basically concluded that dsd was feeling conflicted between parents, where one had either unintentionally or deliberately undermined the relationship with the other, and left dsd feeling unable to discuss her relationship with one parent, for being aware of the other parents views .
So, how can he protect dsd from the thoughts and feelings she is clearly having right now? She is just 4 years old, and this has been her whole life as her parents were never together. DP has spent 4 years having to go to court repeatedly in order to have time with her as her mum wants 100% control of their child.
I can't see a way that DP can protect her from this conflict, unless he was not to see her - which just isn't an option. Can anyone offer him advice? I'll pass all on to him.

FYI there is absolutely no reason for any of this behaviour. She dumped him when she got pregnant after they dated for 3 months, and has remained hostile ever since. I met him when dsd was around 6 months old. She was with a partner at the time and had been since dsd was 1 month old, she was calling her new partner daddy, and spent the first 2.5 years until they split up calling him "her real daddy". DP was very much surplus to requirements as far as her actions showed.

My friends son was also subject to a section 7 that said he was hesitant about talking about dad.

What the truth was is that the person in school (TA) was asking very intrusive questions that at 5 he found hard to answer and he felt uncomfortable about the level of questioning.

If they asked what he did at the weekend he's happily tell them he went swimming with dad.

But when bombarded with "so who visits daddies house when you're there, what does daddy do with you, do you watch tv, what do you have at dinner, do you have your own room" etc it felt odd to a 5yo who was never asked the same thing about living at mums house.

@Getyourarseofffthequattro

There are no promises of easy or simple in parenting and child rearing regardless of your marital status or relationship with the other parent.

People looking for easy or simple should have pets rather than having children.

Having responsibility for another human life is no simple or easy responsibility and it can often time pose difficult challenges. In this particular case, the relationship with the mother is posing some of the challenges but if it were not that, it could just as easily be some other challenge.

*You really need to speak to the school about this and give them a copy of the CAO. They are legally obligated to uphold this and ensure he receives all information. “

This is good advice.

On another note, it’s also a form of emotional abuse. One parent undermines the other parent. It will destroy your dp’s long-term relationship with DSD. Plus undermind her beliefs and self-esteem.

It's called Parental Alienation.

Can the school capture anything off this?This is harder than said. Speak to the school and they should pick it up as a safeguarding issue.

[quote Tattler2]@Getyourarseofffthequattro

There are no promises of easy or simple in parenting and child rearing regardless of your marital status or relationship with the other parent.

People looking for easy or simple should have pets rather than having children.

Having responsibility for another human life is no simple or easy responsibility and it can often time pose difficult challenges. In this particular case, the relationship with the mother is posing some of the challenges but if it were not that, it could just as easily be some other challenge.[/quote]
Don't be so fucking offensive. Get a pet? That's your answer to someone not wanting the other parent to ABUSE their child? Get a fucking pet? Are you serious?

You've said some stupid shit on this forum but that takes the biscuit.

Parental Alienation is very difficult to prove , and not all distance and estrangement is the result of action by one parent . Sometimes the alienation is the result of ineffective actions or failure to acton the part of the other parent.

It is so much easier to be effectively proactive in relating to a child rather than spending unnecessary time critiquing the parenting actions of the other person.

@Tattler2

Parental Alienation is very difficult to prove , and not all distance and estrangement is the result of action by one parent . Sometimes the alienation is the result of ineffective actions or failure to acton the part of the other parent.

It is so much easier to be effectively proactive in relating to a child rather than spending unnecessary time critiquing the parenting actions of the other person.

Lovely excusing of abuse there.

Would you say the same about physical abuse out of interest?

The poor child. This has broken my heart. Her mum needs a bloody slap.

Your partner needs to a) lodge a complaint with the head that his request was told directly to the mum by a staff member. That should never have happened. B) ask for a meeting with the head teacher and safeguarding lead (sometimes the same peraon) and discuss options, he may need to present a copy of the court order to the school so that they are fully aware of what is/isn't allowed/stipulated and then as a pp above suggests ask them how they can help support.

With regards to reading record, due toncovis our school has binned them off,we have to use the dojo app to record it in a message so could he do that/email her class teacher. My dd hates the school reading books so has almost always read our own books at home (currently Harry potter) so honestly he/she are not missing out on much by reading other things.

Keep doing as you are doing in terms of helping her recreate things. Don't make any comments other than positive so in the case of grandad wanting the card keep making the "ohhh that's because it was sooooooo good, how about we make daddy another one" as you are doing because believe me she will remember.

When she says "mummy says no" just say things like "that's ok name, mummy is probably worried it will get lost or forgotten (or appropriate reason), but how about we do X or Y instead" like you have with the Teddy. And honestly the class bear is grim...ours ALWAYS went for a spa treatment on the first night home - if you want to know the origins of the plague look no further than the bloody class bears

I didn't say it was easy, but Op and her dp should be aware. Keeping a record of things should help. Making the school aware also will help. Little things can build a big picture. And if they've already been to court, chances are they will again.

Op’s dp should be talking to the school. And the person who suggested a formal letter about the TA is spot on.

The whole situation is difficult. And there's a very small child evolved.

@Getyourarseofffthequattro funnily due to my experience and the experiences of those around me this is a thread where I agree with Tattler2

Certain forms of emotional abuse aren't recognised in the Family Court system so regardless of whether there is a Court Order or not, the parent who sees there is emotional abuse of their child where some of the aims of the other parent is to control their interactions with their child needs to work around it.

If the dad stands up for himself with those who are refusing to recognise his parental responsibility, parallel parents, parents reasonable and doesn't slag of his child's mother to the child he could end up being his child's main parent they live with at any point in their teenage years.

This is because such abusers often turn on the child when it sinks in that the child's other parent will ignore or stand up to their actions as legally appropriate.

On this occasion @TTattler2 has some valid point. Parental alienation is incredibly difficult to prove and requires specialist solicitors. If it's a route a parent does try to prove the weight of school is very important so being the bigger person and making sure the school see what's going on is vital. This will be complicated by the fact that mum works at the school. However there is no excuse for the school office to have reported anything to mum and this 100% needs to be dealt with by the head.

Sidestepping the behaviour of the abusive parent is often the right move. In terms of practice advice a number of people upthread have offered great advice. I would add that you keep a log of what's going on and in some shape way or form let the teacher know. You can do this in a low conflict way so for example oh I havent seen DDs reading report or book, could you let me know what shes working on and I will get copies at home / bring her to the library. Then every Monday after your weekend email in what would have been in the reading report. Same with homework, simply ask for it to be sent electronically, DSSs homework has been on Google classrooms since covid so they may already have a system in place.
In terms of school pick up if the court order stipulates it then it's not up to her. Give a copy of the court order to the school.

I think that school staff will assume that parents speak to one another and share information about their child. School will not get involved on keeping secrets. So if Johnny's dad calls to talk to teacher about his reading there is no reason for teacher to keep this from his mum. They both have parental responsibility. It is ultimately down to the parents to be civil to each other. Arguments about reading books and class bears are not the school's business. As long as the child is reading school will not want to get into who is doing the reading and where.

What a horrible situation. Poor little girl in the middle. Her mum really needs to realise the damage she’s doing to her daughter.

@cansu

I think that school staff will assume that parents speak to one another and share information about their child. School will not get involved on keeping secrets. So if Johnny's dad calls to talk to teacher about his reading there is no reason for teacher to keep this from his mum. They both have parental responsibility. It is ultimately down to the parents to be civil to each other. Arguments about reading books and class bears are not the school's business. As long as the child is reading school will not want to get into who is doing the reading and where.

That assumption is wrong and in the case of split parents it's not an assumption that should be made. While alot of split parents can co parent amicably if this forum is anything to go by alot dont or cant for whatever reason. My DSSs head was very understanding of this and everything sent home in DSSs bag is also posted to DP. The school have a specific policy in place for this and I would say most do given the number of kids from split homes. Also if dad said I'm not getting any information about school and the person in question instantly went to tell mum then that is 100% professional behaviour that needs to be reported to the head. In DSSs school seperate parents evenings are standard for parents who dont live together ( this was in place before DP had to have meeting regarding other inappropriate attempts of DSSs mum to distance DP from the school.

I meant unprofessional behaviour

I think this situation is massively made harder by the fact the ex works at school. Of course staff there should remain professional but let’s face it these people are probably her friends.

Agree that it would be good to speak to the Head and you just have to hope they are professional about it.

Just in reply to a previous poster about separate parents evenings - my dds last school had a policy of stating that there could only be one slot per child and they wouldn’t be able to see parents separately due to time restraints.

@GirlWithAGuitar

What a horrible situation. Poor little girl in the middle. Her mum really needs to realise the damage she’s doing to her daughter.

And how is the dad or any other adult suppose to control that? They can't.

This is why I pointed out in my last post it is not unheard of for the parent doing the abuse to turn on their child.

I know and have known teens and adults who have very limited interaction with their mothers because of their behaviour towards them, which they later found out mirrored the behaviour they gave to their fathers.

@NautaOcts

Just in reply to a previous poster about separate parents evenings - my dds last school had a policy of stating that there could only be one slot per child and they wouldn’t be able to see parents separately due to time restraints.

I know it's harder due to Covid but it doesn't stop a parent who can't get to parents evening - shift workers and single parents also may not be able to attend - to find other ways to talk to their child's teacher.

Keeping information from one parent could be very difficult as both parents have parental responsibility and therefore have the right to all information about their child unless there are safeguarding concerns that means the child would be at risk. Yes the school should share information with the dad but I really can't see how that would have to be kept from the mum or vice versa.

And how is the dad or any other adult suppose to control that? They can't.

What the fuck? I said the mum really needs to realise the damage she’s doing. I didn’t say any other adult could control it. I was just feeling sad for the child and saying what a crap situation because of the mother. Ok? Who pissed on your cornflakes this morning? Go fight with someone else.

The office receptionist was BANG out of line reporting to the ex about him having called. I would put in a complaint to the Head about that.

I agree with the others that he needs to continue making himself "visible" to the school. That is his right. And as a teacher, I can say that whenever I hear one parent's "side" of a situation, I always think to myself that I'd like to hear the other side too, so he shouldn't assume that they automatically believe the ex.

Oh and we're another school who doesn't provide separate parent consultation slots. More than half of your average class have separated parents; it's hard enough fitting just the 30 in, let alone another (up to) 15.

Definitely talk to the headteacher about the CAO, I have a CAO for my DD and when I took it into school I was told by the Head that it would be followed by school so if ExH turns up at school on his listed nights (he doesn't) then DD will be sent home with him and not me.

We don't have separate parents evenings either since covid but if ExH ever called school and asked about DD (again he doesn't and never has) he'd be told.

School do tell me if he calls up though and if he ever asked they'd give him a copy of all contact I've had with school as well, so you might not be able to stop that.

@GirlWithAGuitar

And how is the dad or any other adult suppose to control that? They can't.

What the fuck? I said the mum really needs to realise the damage she’s doing. I didn’t say any other adult could control it. I was just feeling sad for the child and saying what a crap situation because of the mother. Ok? Who pissed on your cornflakes this morning? Go fight with someone else.

Your hand wringing does SFA.

I replied to you because people like you don't realise that some of us have lived with this shit and had our own (as a child) and/or child's well-being threatened due to another mother's strange gasp of reality. In their reality it's ok to use their own children and their children's half-siblings as weapons to get back at their ex.

We have this too Op.

Have been blocked from school plays after mum buying all the tickets and staying there with the ticket holder, when he has been able to go she has 'shushed' her child on stage when child has tried to acknowledge him.

Has banned me as SM from picking DSD up from after school club on his contact time (we live together).

Erased all of DSD work on the online school platform when she has been homeschooling with dad.

Took dads contacts off the emergency contact list and replaced them with her boyfriends number.

Blocked him from attending parents evening.

Scrubbed reading book comments out.

Etc etc. It's a joke.

However your DP doesn't not 'have a choice' he can still be proactive by still doing all these things, he has parental rights particularly regarding school and he can be a proactive father when it comes to it - she has no say in the matter. I'd suggest your partner finds some courage and plays his role as a parent anyway as his child will deserve.