Deliberate exclusion of dad from school life.

[ThisMustBeMyDream]

DSD came home with her dad today to spend half the holiday with him. She was star of the week at school today, and had been given the class bear to spend the half term with her. They are asked to take photographs of the bear joining in whatever you are doing, and send them in (she is in reception).
She was upset as she hadn't brought the bear with her because "mummy said no". DP (and me) placated her, and empathised at her feelings. We came up with an idea that daddy would draw the bear for her (this is his special skill ) and she could take her pictures with her drawing and we would write a story of how the bear had an adventure without her and sent her his picture instead for her to take out.
The bigger question is why would mummy say no? Well, why exactly? This is just another thing in a long line of things to make sure DP has nothing to do with any aspect of her schooling. She would be absolutely furious at the idea of DP sending in pictures of her and the bear. But it isn't about her feelings, it's about poor dsd who just wants to enjoy time with both her parents.
She has refused to allow DP to collect her from school on the one occasion so far he has been able to (today, his half term started 2 days earlier, so he would have been able to collect her - he's a primary teacher). The court order allows for this, as holiday contact is stipulated as the moment school finishes for a holiday. But she point blank refused. So he had to go and collect her over an hour later. No other option.
When he rang the school last year shortly after she started nursery, she kicked off massively. He rang to speak to the nursery teacher as he wanted to be involved with her education. He asked about separate parents evening, being added to class dojo, letters sent home etc. Yet mum demanded that he never contact the school again. Anything to do with school he should speak to her about and that he should have no need to speak to them. Of course he ignored this ridiculous demand. If he has needed to communicate with them, he has. The reason she knew about the conversation was because the person who answered the phone to him when he rang and explained who he was and why he was calling went straight to her and told her (she had just started as a TA there).
She has never allowed a reading book home with her (they've had them since the end of nursery). So DP has not been able to add to her reading record as obviously that isn't allowed by mum either. So he just does his own books with her, but she wants her reading book, but says "mummy says no".
She has never allowed a picture to come home with for him, even though dsd tells him she drew him one.
Father's day she arrived for the weekend upset because the card she made him had been "given to grandad because he said he wanted it". Luckily she was able to tell me what the card was, and we made an identical one together to give to her dad.
In a recent section 7 report her teacher reported dsd is very reluctant to talk about dad in school, and will say she doesn't have a dad often when asked. The report basically concluded that dsd was feeling conflicted between parents, where one had either unintentionally or deliberately undermined the relationship with the other, and left dsd feeling unable to discuss her relationship with one parent, for being aware of the other parents views .
So, how can he protect dsd from the thoughts and feelings she is clearly having right now? She is just 4 years old, and this has been her whole life as her parents were never together. DP has spent 4 years having to go to court repeatedly in order to have time with her as her mum wants 100% control of their child.
I can't see a way that DP can protect her from this conflict, unless he was not to see her - which just isn't an option. Can anyone offer him advice? I'll pass all on to him.

FYI there is absolutely no reason for any of this behaviour. She dumped him when she got pregnant after they dated for 3 months, and has remained hostile ever since. I met him when dsd was around 6 months old. She was with a partner at the time and had been since dsd was 1 month old, she was calling her new partner daddy, and spent the first 2.5 years until they split up calling him "her real daddy". DP was very much surplus to requirements as far as her actions showed.

Ignore mum. I'd communicate directly with the teacher about what's going on, too.

Go on step up and get a second teddy to take pictures with? The new bear could be school Teddy's cousin.

I think Dad just has to keep doing what he's doing and ask the school directly. Could he ask them for a copy of whatever book she's reading? The school might let him pick up a copy if they have 2. It's really sad as this is punishing her own child.

Calmly ignore all negativity from mum. Don't let any anger or conflict show in front of your DSD. Redo all the pictures and activities so your DSD has her complete life at your house as well as at her mum's house. Take it calmly in your stride.

Your DP is right to be included on school email lists, invitations to events etc.

Having said that, I'm separated from my ex. Anything that goes to his house - school awards, homework books, reading books etc are not returned and are never seen again. Assignments are not completed. So I see both sides. I never send school stuff at weekends, it always causes problems.

@MintJulia OP's partner hasn't even been given q chance to not return things yet though.

I’d advise the Dad to continue with his efforts building up a relationship with his daughter’s school and engaging with them.

If a court order stipulates he can collect from school then I’d request a meeting with school (head teacher, class teacher and safeguarding lead) to discuss how to manage those times moving forward. Equally, asking to be copied in on all communications regarding his daughter.

From what you describe, the mother hasn’t come to terms with the concept of coparenting so rather than fight it I’d find ways round it, remaining diplomatic when talking about her and using it as a way of discussing how people have different opinions, etc, respect, tolerance and understanding. Using appropriate language and analogies for her age.

Whoever he spoke to in the school office was very unprofessional to have immediately spoken to his ex (even if she does work in the school). She should just have made the arrangements and said no more. He should contact someone more senior about that - it’s worth a chat with the head. He’s not asking for anything unreasonable.

I think what I’d suggest about the cards and bear and things like that is to try to take the sting out for your DSD. So act like it’s a positive. ‘Oh I bet grandad really loved your card. Let’s go to the shop and you can choose something for daddy’. ‘Oh I bet mummy has loads of great things planned with the class bear. You can take some lovely photos of that and tell us all about it. Would you like to go to X this week?’

Just don’t make it into a bigger deal than it is. You can acknowledge she’s upset without making it seem that you have to compensate because she’s missing out. Make whatever her mum has done sound like it’s a good thing and distract and displace.

Ignore the ex. Your DP has PR he can be involved in all aspects they will have a seperated parents list for such things to ensure both parents receive these. He could ask the school if they have a learning mentor/school counsellor/play therapist to help dsd discuss her feelings. They should actually be putting something like that together for her if they feel it's an issue and it will all be logged as safeguarding anyway. Ask the teacher to email your DP stuff maybe? But they won't be able to do all of it all the time if at all because unfortunately they will likely have a lot of parents with similar issues. Your DP will know all this as a teacher anyway.

The ex could maybe benefit from a SPIP course however my dps ex went on this and still uses their dd as a weapon so it did little good!

If she isn't sticking to the court order and she is unreasonable go back to court to get it enforced she is breaching it so won't be looked at favorable in the eyes of a judge.

Also make sure the school have her birth cert and a copy of CAO. They will log it on their system which they look at as soon as anyone calls in. If he has concerns about dd get him to call and speak to the safeguarding lead in regards to them and the issues with mum so that is also logged from his perspective.

Whoever he spoke to in the school office was very unprofessional to have immediately spoken to his ex (even if she does work in the school) I agree. If she didn't work in the same school she wouldn't have known he'd called.

Op this just horrific - I'm so sorry for your DSD. Echoing others - go above the TA and speak to the head. Get that nailed down or this will be engrained and get worse. That TA should lose her job tbh.

I'm gonna go against the grain and say that in child like terms sometimes mummy's and daddy's don't get on (and that's ok) but remember she also has a safe space to talk to her worries and things with you and her dad if she wants to.

I would also get her into therapy - this is going to damage her and she needs a space space (whether at your home or independent person) were she can be safe to talk about these things without fear of upsetting dad or /angering mum. She shouldn't have to manage her mother's feelings, and what her mum says about her dad alone. She probably hasn't mentioned it in fear of upsetting DH. She's far to young for that type of responsibility.

Good luck ! Action is needed here

You really need to speak to the school about this and give the a copy of the CAO. They are legally obligated to uphold this and ensure he receives all information. His ex has zero say. Only a prohibited steps order can refuse him this right. Your ex may want to remind them of this. Since the order allows your DP to collect from school, they must release her to him. I'd even say let the teacher know the dates he will be collecting and then tell his ex.

I really feel for you, we had this... While DD lives with me order says ex collects from school. If she had the class bear, he'd refuse to bring it home so she'd have to go back to school with out it. Kept her school bag, homework, reading books etc so she'd be without them for 2 weeks. Pretty much ruined the first 5 years of primary for DD, she's' still in counselling because of all the upset this and many other things he did. In year 5 she solved the issue of his keeping stuff by leaving everything at school when she went to his :-(

Your ex may want to remind them of this.

sorry mean to say you DP may want to remind them of this.!!

OP, the school has a responsibility to provide information. Regrettably, teachers and school staff are often drawn into acrimony situations between parents even though they have absolutely no desire to be privy to much of the information that is shared.

Your husband can help his daughter to learn to read without ever utilizing any of the specific texts that are used in her particular classroom. Developing and enhancing skill sets can be accomplished with a vast array of different text, techniques, and materials.

His daughter's experiences should be informed by what happens when she is with him. There is no real reason to address things that she does or does not bring to his residence. He should have specific activities, skills,values ,and experiences to which he exposes his daughter. These things may be consistent with what happens at mom 's house or they may be only tangentially related. If he parents as a caring and involved father that is the way that his daughter will experience him. The child is only damaged by inconsistencies in the 2 households if there are overt or subtle suggestions that there are problems with the differences. Children adjust to different behaviors, responses, treatment, etc from various techers, friends, daily observations in the wider world, extended family experiences,ect. They adjust and adapt and are rarely damaged but instead come to know about differences in rules in different environments, differing personalities, different ways of expressing friendship and love, etc.

Your husband should focus on being his kind of effective parent rather than on the mom's parenting. The child can be taught that mom and dad have different perspectives but that they both love her. Children feel love and they know when they are experiencing that feeling.

@Pinkyxx I'm so sad for your daughter

@Tattler2

OP, the school has a responsibility to provide information. Regrettably, teachers and school staff are often drawn into acrimony situations between parents even though they have absolutely no desire to be privy to much of the information that is shared.

Your husband can help his daughter to learn to read without ever utilizing any of the specific texts that are used in her particular classroom. Developing and enhancing skill sets can be accomplished with a vast array of different text, techniques, and materials.

His daughter's experiences should be informed by what happens when she is with him. There is no real reason to address things that she does or does not bring to his residence. He should have specific activities, skills,values ,and experiences to which he exposes his daughter. These things may be consistent with what happens at mom 's house or they may be only tangentially related. If he parents as a caring and involved father that is the way that his daughter will experience him. The child is only damaged by inconsistencies in the 2 households if there are overt or subtle suggestions that there are problems with the differences. Children adjust to different behaviors, responses, treatment, etc from various techers, friends, daily observations in the wider world, extended family experiences,ect. They adjust and adapt and are rarely damaged but instead come to know about differences in rules in different environments, differing personalities, different ways of expressing friendship and love, etc.

Your husband should focus on being his kind of effective parent rather than on the mom's parenting. The child can be taught that mom and dad have different perspectives but that they both love her. Children feel love and they know when they are experiencing that feeling.

Why are you ignoring what mum is doing here?

Your DP should read the government guidance on Parental Responsibility. It is well written and sets out situations - then explains what the law is in regard to those. www.gov.uk/government/publications/dealing-with-issues-relating-to-parental-responsibility/understanding-and-dealing-with-issues-relating-to-parental-responsibility

I have been a school data manager for a number of years. I often have to refuse to implement requests from 1 parent/child and will usually send this document out with my reply. So your DP - as dad with PR (and court orders) is entitled to be involved with his child and their schooling.

I have to add families to our school information management system - it can be trickier than perhaps some posters realise. For example, the system I use blocks all communication if there is a court order. So once he sends in the court order and it is logged he may only receive communication that someone manually remembers to send him. That is prone to error. In addition parental priority and PR status will probably make a difference to communication - so he should request to be PR ticked (supported by birth certificate) and Highest Priority (normally a 1). Both he and Mum can be 1.

Regarding the member of staff updating ex - I believe that to be a data breach and as such should be reported to the Head quite formally. It is shocking unprofessional conduct.

I agree with one of the PP (@Tattler2) who effectively suggested parallel parenting rather than co-parenting. I am over 10 years in a hostile supposed co-parenting situation. It doesnt work. Parallel parenting has been great.

If the school uses a particular series of books you can get a complementary home set. Our kids school uses biff, chip and kipper & we have some of those books at home. That way she can show her Dad her reading with a similar book at the same stage she came home from school. I agree with @BadlyFormedQuestion’s approach to DSD for the individual instances and also agree than professional independent support is needed for DSD to give her a safe place to discuss feelings and also guidance on developing strategies. To misquote Michelle Obama: when others go low, go high.

I think you have some great advice here, especially from @spongedog.

If the court order stipulates collection from school then I suggest he ensures this happens. And rigorously. Court ordered school collections and drop offs are in place for precisely reasons such as this - to minimise conflict to the children if there is conflict between the parents.

If it is court ordered, she cannot refuse it. The court order can be shared with the school who will then happily release said child to the father per the court order. It is really important in these scenarios that he gets this in place (if it isn’t clear in the existing order) and enforces it.

You’ve already had a section 7, and in the event another one is done, the school / teachers voices add (without any doubt) the biggest weight to these reports. The ex will know that and it is why she is being so combative over how involved he is.

That school need to see an involved and engaged father. And a happy child being dropped off and collected to and from school.

He needs to be having termly meets with the head teacher/ head of safeguarding and the child’s tutor. All language needs to be about what is in the child’s best interests.

Schools try very hard to remain neutral in these situations and look out for the child’s best interests. They can be really supportive of parents in your DP’s situation. He cannot just sit back and be allowing this to happen. He has rights and he needs to enforce them.

@ThisMustBeMyDream this won’t help anything in the long run but can you email the bits (or pictures) you do to the child’s teacher so they can share it in school. I’d also ask for ideally a face to face meeting or a zoom call if not with the teacher (which if he holds parental responsibility they can’t refuse) to discuss how you can work together to resolve the situation. Do they have a family support worker your husband could take to? I’m 100% sure that they’re not going to make it to school and she’ll be gutted when she has nothing to share on her return.

@Getyourarseofffthequattro for once Tattler2 isn't talking out of their behind.

My DP parallel parents and the school is completely aware of it.

Though some of the individual teachers are still fucking stupid and don't understand that him and his ex can't be in the same room together.

[quote RedMarauder]**@Getyourarseofffthequattro* for once Tattler2* isn't talking out of their behind.

My DP parallel parents and the school is completely aware of it.

Though some of the individual teachers are still fucking stupid and don't understand that him and his ex can't be in the same room together.[/quote]
I agree that parallel parenting is a good thing to try, I just don't agree that we should sort of just ignore bad behaviour.

I agree that parallel parenting is a good thing to try, I just don't agree that we should sort of just ignore bad behaviour.

In situations like this, it’s usually best to try to ignore the bad behaviour and mitigate the effects. It can be like dealing with a toddler.

Yes, the mother is behaving badly. But there is nothing her ex or the OP can really do to make her behave better. They can just accept that, ignore her and get on with things. That’s best for the little girl. And best for them. If it’s not having any effect, the mother might give up with this crap too.

@Getyourarseofffthequatto
I am not ignoring what mom is doing. Mom being a jerk does not prevent Dad from being a good parent. If his goal is to prove that Mom is not supportive of his parenting efforts, he has a enough of an Amen corner without me adding my "Amen.". If his goal is to be a good Dad , he can do that without Mom's support.

He has to proactively provide love, caring, experiences and values teaching apart from what the Mom does. His daughter has to feel and experience his love. The Mom can bad mouth the Dad; he cannot change that. However, the Mom cannot prevent the child from experiencing feelings of love that result from her father's interactions with the daughter.

If your ability to make your child feel loved is dependent upon the actions of another person, then there is something ineffective in the way that you are parenting.

A child does not feel loved simply bases upon the words of a parent; a child experiences feeling loved based upon the actions of the parent.

Children know the difference between your saying that yoh love them and your acting like you love them.

The child's mother being less than a good parent in no way prevents the father from being an effective parent.

No it doesn't prevent it @Tattler2 but it does make it much harder

@BadlyFormedQuestion

I agree that parallel parenting is a good thing to try, I just don't agree that we should sort of just ignore bad behaviour.

In situations like this, it’s usually best to try to ignore the bad behaviour and mitigate the effects. It can be like dealing with a toddler.

Yes, the mother is behaving badly. But there is nothing her ex or the OP can really do to make her behave better. They can just accept that, ignore her and get on with things. That’s best for the little girl. And best for them. If it’s not having any effect, the mother might give up with this crap too.

I agree, in practice ignoring it and not giving the desired reaction is a good thing. But it annoys me that people damage their children like this and fuck everyone else around and we all stand around and let it happen and "be the bigger person"

These arseholes should be held to account. You shouldn't be allowed to purposely mentally damage your child and get away with it.