Maintenance and balling out

[candlelightsatdawn]

So this is always a contentious issue, but I'm trying to do the right thing.

Few facts before they are asked as I don't want to drip feed.

• DH and ex split up many years and no I wasn't the other women.

• I get on really well with my SD (12) and really rather like her mum and we are all friendly. Which in this matter complicates things some what.

-I suspect I have a DH problem but what I need to know what's fair for all parties etc and wording on how to not make things worse

• So DH pays £300 for DSD plus half on uniform, phones, games, laptops, school trips ect. This is about double what CSA recommended but seems fair to me and everyone was happy with this until of late.

• The ex keeps asking to borrow money and forgetting to pay it back. This usually happens every 3 months in the amount of £500 a pop. Usually because she's behind on bills.

-She works part time and seems to be struggling with her new partner because he keeps getting them into debt (we don't know why but it's been hinted gambling - not my concern her life, her choice but her position is tricky). We want to help because a) effects SD if the lights are on and b) because she's a nice women and actually is in bad situation with her partner but also pretty useless with money.

• recently every week or so we get a request for new expensive item example laptop (that's been bought and money needs paid then and there no discussion between them) same for phone, games ect as mum just says dad will pay for it and then is sent the bill. She's at a expensive age so I suspect this maybe normal

• I'm on a v good wage but my DH is on considerably less and is self employed. I also have my own DD to provide for but I don't want there to be a massive disparity between the girls standards of living. This is important to me. Mum know my wage because she asked in conversation re Christmas and I have said I will always try to help where and if I can if she's struggling.

• if it's relevant I'm pregnant but we aren't sure if the baby will survive due to some medical complications that have been found. Neither girls know but mum does and has been Brillant re this, I think the weight of this maybe impacting things making things escalate. Maybe she's worried that DD will get less so is asking for more upfront. I can't help but think maybe DH is letting his guilt play a massive part here more than mum.

Recently everything seems to have getting progressively worse and I'm having to subsidise all this because my DH wants to help, so ends up helping on pay day and then being unable to pay his own bills and I have to cover them because I have to keep lights on here. But it's started snow balling. I'm not foolish enough to have started out in this position but I don't know how we have gotten here

The problem is DH has a problem saying no to both DSD and the ex, the last round was a computer game of £50 which SD kicked off about wanting right then and there abs hinted about not visiting if it wasn't purchased asap and DH agreed to buy it for her then because he didn't have any money, I had to because SD was standing there waiting for it to be bought and it puts me in a tricky spot. I obviously don't want her to not come over and it was already a "done and dusted thing"

-DSD will only eat certain foods - junk and every time food is not exactly to her liking, she says that she won't come around. So we have to get different food for her or she kicks off and she eats a lot. I'm footing the entire food bill because of DH lending money to ex for various things,the last few months.

Another issue has cropped up last week- lunch money's come up, SD is blowing £20 on lunch after two days and then is going hungry the next day and telling her dad she hasn't eaten. Mum has confirmed that she keeps forgetting to give SD money (not that she doesn't have the money just that she forgets), so DH solution instead of saying you need to make sure she has money for food is he has he will pay for school dinners himself and promised this to mum but didn't discuss with me (so another £30 a week on top of everything else). Bar the fact he's running into the negative at the end of the month as it is and he knows I will have to prop up the cost. This all usually happens just after he's been paid and he says yes then all direct debts come out later in month and he's short.

How can I deal with this with both parties, I want to help, but I'm having choices and agreements made that financially impact me and I'm seen as the bad guy for saying no. If can have some reasonable advice that would be grand. Leave him isn't really a option currently. I don't want SD to suffer.

I'm in a really dark space at the moment with the pregnancy and I'm sure that's clouding my judgement. If people could be mindful because I'm well aware I have a DH problem but I want to get people's thoughts on.

1. what is fair - finance wise?
2. what line should I draw and where with both DH, mum and SD request.
3. am I being unreasonable re wanting to cut them all off financially. I have had quite a serious conversation with DH saying that if he doesn't start being realistic then he's out. I know if I do this it will effect SD standard of living and although she's not my own. I really care for her.
4. The pregnancy was planned and everything was going smoothly financial wise but I can't help but notice the requests for money have escalated dramatically since mum has found out. I can afford to help but just not at this level. The catch is I really like her and get on well which means I don't think this is intentional malicious behaviour. I want to be fair but this maybe moot point anyway 😔 ( it is completely out of my hands either way). At the moment we will have nothing left over at end of month to be able to get baby stuff as I'm supplementing DH who's supplementing mum.

Usually I would just stop helping but it's a matter of food in house or a hit to credit rating which impacts me too. Which obviously I can't do.

Help

“Hi Fred, Were you paid this morning? Great. You didn’t pay your share of the gas bill last month so I had to sub you. Can you put it in my account today or I’m going to go overdrawn. It’s £122.68.”

Basically you need to get him to pay his bills before his ex gets to him and asks for luxuries.

Otherwise your baby is going to go without so his ex’s new bloke can gamble.

That is the thing you need to hang onto - every penny you take for your children to give to him will mean he can give more money to his ex so she can give her boyfriend money to gamble. She won’t want to live in a house with no food either so if you stop subsidising her then she will have to sort her relationship out.

It sounds like you're all bailing out the ex's new bf.
Seriously,a good dose of saying 'no' all round is needed.
You shouldn't feel as if you have to take control of everything in order for this to work, why should you shoulder all the mental load, especially given your pregnancy. Your DP needs to step up and stop trying to please everyone but you. Tbh he needs to talk to his ex before she taps him up for more money and explain that she's asking for money he doesn't have. Big purchases for their DD need to be agreed beforehand.

@aSofaNearYou I think your right. I don't have any explanation other than apparently I took leave of my senses and left them somewhere.

Its frustrating because I see him wanting to do right by his daughter and ex, which is good. Forgetting or somehow it snow balling into I must pick up all the slack.

Dont, DH is amazed that SD behaves so well around me and really likes me since he views me as being strict, he can't see that there's a reason for it and a different approach does work. I think DS has learned this behaviour and then is enabled by DH. All of this kicking off is linked to the pregnancy, that's is the thing that's really dawned on me writing this all out there. I hadn't quite linked it in my head.

Baring the game, it's the fact he overcommits to ex and then has nothing left to pay our side (pretty much exactly like spongebob put further down the thread)

You sound like you have been very kind and thoughtful to everyone but yourself. At the moment you and your pregnancy have to be first consideration so look after yourself. My only worry is that standing up for yourself in this might be stressful for you but then carrying on like this is also stressful. It is a tricky time to sort things out and I hope it can all be sorted.

I think one thing you have to make clear to DH is that it isn't really being kind to let his DD get away with this, the terrible two tantrums really should have stopped by now and sometimes the old saying, "being cruel to be kind" is very true.

Good luck.

I can see exactly what he bought in the app. There's sometimes acronyms that I don't understand - OMJ is juice apparently but 🤷‍♀️ I know she missed a lot of school last year but is she starting to take note of what menu items cost ? I use the app to top up too so if I've forgotten then they can text me at break and they have money for lunch. Our school also have a meal deal (main plus drink) which is handy for the days that they like the main

@AnneLovesGilbert I'm not gonna lie putting it all down had made me reread it and be like what hold on.

I would usually not be this dense but here I am 😩

DH is amazed that SD behaves so well around me and really likes me since he views me as being strict, he can't see that there's a reason for it and a different approach does work.

He should spend his time around more children. You quickly learn that giving into everything they want doesn't mean they like you any better.

it's the fact he overcommits to ex and then has nothing left to pay our side

So now you know what you need to deal with.

Sorry it's come at such a shit time. Remember you don't have to have any communication at all with his ex, plus you can bail out for your health when the his children come over if you need to as you aren't their parent. Good luck with your pregnancy.

Theyre taking advantage of your good wage. All of them. And using you as a bank. Like a three income family.

Every time you have to bail them out, think, what would they do if I wasn't here? Or lost my job?

Also agree get the money from him for bills on payday before it goes. And don't be guilted into giving any back later when his excess has run out and SD is stamping her little foot and demanding. because you need that money for uh, bills!

It was a mistake to tell ex how much you earn. Once people like this find out, they start circling like vultures.

[quote candlelightsatdawn]@AnkleDeep I'm not giving him money so much as there are bills to be paid that keep this house running. The game thing I'm with you, those things can stop and will.
He's spending his own money on bailing out ex on pay day then is like opps no money.

The problem I can't say ok DH doesn't have the money for his half electric bill, we will sit in darkness for the next few months or ok he doesn't have money for food, right I'm only paying for DD and me everyone else starve.

I think someone mentioned take full control of his finances which I can and will do but will feel like a bank and when your already full time mum, full time worker at stressful job and dealing with pregnancy complications, I'm not gonna like another added title of Bank and keeper of all money makes me feel a bit queazy tbh

[/quote]
Doesn't need to be all money. If you could average out what it costs per week to cover bills and food and other joint expenses then DH could give you his share of that as soon as he's paid and then if he wants to help DSD and her mum more it comes out of the disposable income he has left instead of your income. Him choosing to go without himself to support his DD is reasonable, him forcing you to essentially bare the cost of this is not.

Can you get your DH to set up a direct deposit from his account to yours for his share of the bills and food. Have it set to go out half an hour after he is paid. That way your joint household comes first and then anything left over, he can decide if he wants to spend it on ex and DSD. You just have to chat and decide on the right amount and then set it up so it happens quickly enough that the ex cant get in first. I would draw a line under what is past and just re set for the future. Maybe phrase it as a good way to reduce your stress levels which is very important given the pregnancy.

Cross post with Luna. Two of us thinking the same way

I think you just say if you’ve decided not to financially contribute to this family and our living costs you will need to stay somewhere else until the start of the next month. So If I have to pay a bill for you as you’re giving it all to your ex wife and computer games, pack a bag and find somewhere to stay. I need some support here and I’m not prepared to instead be everyone else’s support.

I have a son who was a pita at that age. He respected and responded well to teaches who were firm but fair and had little respect for those who were wishy washy and quick to suggest second chances etc

Google sheets or excel is your friend here OP

Set out a monthly budget of what DPs share of bills is and what he has left. Whatever he has spare- is his spending money including extras for DSD . He can't spend over it

£30 a week for school dinners? As his 50% share is ridiculous!! My DDs and very hungry DS never spent above the £4 daily cap and mostly it was £3 a day- ie £15 a week - That's 100% of it. Something is not right here.

Suggest you look at DSDs canteen account- her father will be allowed access to monitor it and what she buys via the school payment app- ours is SCOPAY and I can see everything my children buy within 1 hour if their buying it. They come home to a "you bought a £1 water bottle/ Juice drink each day ? You have a water bottle with free water , don't be lazy, take it and fill it up as I'm not made of money or I'm not topping up your canteen account again"

Also- you are doing DSD no favours for her developing personality letting her become demanding and threaten not to come " if Dad doesn't buy yada yada..." .

Call her bluff. "Ok then that's sad if you decide not to come stay but don't try to blackmail us. You can have the game/ laptop/ etc as part of / all of your birthday or Xmas present when that comes around. Don't keep asking for expensive items as it is spoilt behaviour and you aren't a spoilt child,"

It is a DH problem but also a that you don't feel up to the potential conflict that might occur if you stand your ground. It'll only get worse though so you have to stand your ground and it doesn't need to be a big deal. Just say "No, we've said no and are not discussing it again. How you behave when we say No is up to you and will be disappointed if you behave badly, but it's our / my right to say No"

Yep he pays his share to each family at start month. Everything extra gets discussed before it’s bought. You have joint bills account and ringfence your own spare money. There’s no way a 12 year old needs much of this at all. He can reduce £300 and pay DD pocket money and her lunch money direct as she’s old enough for a bank card - in small chunks until she can budget ahead. Then he could open savings account for her with parent control and pay regular amount towards big items and when she wants something she can withdraw her savings - i suspect she won’t want as much when she feels it’s her money she’s spending. Games she has to save pocket money or wait for birthday / Xmas or earn it from extra chores. I wouldn’t spoil my own 12 year old like this even if I could afford it. If you feel it isn’t fair compared to what you spend on your DD then there is nothing to stop you adding to her savings or even putting money aside for her for when she’s 18. Just ask yourself what you would do for your own dc. You would want them to know how to save and budget, not be spoilt and ideally have a post 18 fund for uni etc. Look into some of the free spending tracking apps you can set up different categories to see where money is going it would help your DH see what he has left each month and how much all these extra requests add up to.

A thought, re the lunch bill.I think you said SD wasn't neurotypical, is there a chance she is providing lunch for a few " friends" either taking advantage of her or outright bullying her?

Our school app ParentMail is how we pay for school trips and extras like books that we need to buy. It's also how we send permission slips for trips. I don't want to be rude about SD's mum but it's a good way to check how much school trips etc are just in case she's asking you to pay 100% or exaggerating the cost. (This might not be the case but possible considering her financial problems)

Your h needs to say that if SD needs any expensive tech etc then to let him know so that it can be replaced for Christmas. Teenagers are expensive but she's only 12 and if she's not good at taking care of things then she might have to downgrade to second hand or more cheaper models to compensate for this.

At least get your h to say no to computer games outside of birthdays and Christmas. Ridiculous that she tried to act like a toddler and demand it then was bought it.

I've just realised that I forgot to say please make sure that your h is doing the actual parenting and getting the online account with school etc He's been taking the piss expecting you to finance his dd to this ridiculous extent and needs to take the lead and teach her life skills like budgeting. It sounds like he's been paying mum by cash when he could have topped up online and kept an eye on things. If she's spending £10 a day I think there's a high chance that she's buying for other people and as someone who is ND she needs protecting from CF who will try and take advantage of her.

Are there signs of these fancy tech upgrades ?

If mum is charging you for school trips then it's definitely worth checking the school website etc because ime very few have happened during COVID eg Proms for people leaving school were cancelled at the end of last term. This isn't your job really and should be a wake up call for your h to pay attention to the details and

OP, you are overdoing it. I can understand the desire to go extra mile as there is general assumption that all step parents are nasty since Cinderella times. However you really need to stop this arrangement. I also think there is no need for a big dramatic conversation with your DH.
I form him that you looked through your budget and can't afford to contribute to SD's costs. Effective from now it is entirely his responsibility and up to him what he can and cannot afford. SD is obviously very much welcome in your home and liked just as much as before.
I hope the medical concern with your pregnancy will be successfully resolved

Crikey, can you pay some of my bills too 😉
Seriously, they are pulling a right number on you, you're basically subsidising another household.
If I were you I'd have a last chance saloon sit down with dh, work out what his half of your monthly bills are, tell him he needs to transfer that money to you when he gets paid, anything he has left can be used to pay for his cms and any extras he wants to give her, additional food that's bought in for dsd is also his responsibility to provide, you do a shop, if dsd wants an alternative dh pays for it.
I would also work out exactly what it's been costing you personally to transfer funds to dm, additional food, paying extra to cover his shortfall and present it to him.
Then tell him the bank of stepmum is closed and mean it.
No wonder you get on so well with dsds mum, she knows which side her bread is buttered.
She knows what you earn and thinks it's her pot of money to dip into when the fancy takes her 🙄
Her lack of money management and her useless dp is not your concern, like fuck would I be subsidising another household, you work too hard for your money to just give it away.
If dsd tries to blackmail you by saying she won't come, call her bluff, it's your dhs problem, your DH can explain to a 12 yr old that you don't have an endless pot of money.
Time to get tough op

@Maxiedog123

A thought, re the lunch bill.I think you said SD wasn't neurotypical, is there a chance she is providing lunch for a few " friends" either taking advantage of her or outright bullying her?

I do actually think she maybe buying it for her friends actually. What worries me is she will not admit to it and if confronted with evidence- will lie about it until she's blue in the face. She's done this before so it's normal for her.

God knows why on this subject though tbh it's again hardly the crime of the century buying someone else lunch but something that can't continue. Gahh

Oh and just to clarify although DSD is not neurologically typical. She is not at risk for being bullied. It's pretty much been the other way around actually but that's a whole different story. She's pretty strong willed, I doubt she would even notice tbh, she simply does jot care.

I would love her to be buying lunch for someone, she's a doll but empathy and personal caring relations do not come naturally to her and she acknowledges this and is working on it.

We had to rehome our dog, due to a few incidents that happened when she was younger (I didn't witness it her mum did) but she's having therapy and working with horses which is helping build that empathy bone so is better than what she was. Structure and handling is what she needs and she's doing well.

I suspect though she maybe buying her bfs affections or something all together a bit more concerning or maybe just spending it on snacks opposed to actual meals aka milkshakes ect.

Thank you all for the comments and the kick up the tuss I needed. I'm going to set up a budget via excel. I think part of me has got to start standing up for self.

Also thank you all for the kind comments on my pregnancy, I too hope all can be resolved but the dice is cast as it were. 🌺

Fingers crossed.

I think you need to point out to your DH that every time he hands out to his ex and DSD that he is finding her partner gambling!!

He needs to give you a set amount for the household on pay day and when he runs out he runs out... I think he is better if agreeing to pay x very clearly defined and not a penny more so CMS plus £x for lunches, y for school uniform and DSD can create at her Mum for more.

I think you have been very accommodating, most people who pay maintenance would probably pay for a holiday but wouldn’t contribute a penny for other expenses like uniforms or school lunches.

You don’t need to subsidise the exH’s family and yours just because your other half doesn’t have a spine. Define a minimum amount he needs to pay into your own family pot and stop enabling them being lousy with money.