Treating kids as a 'Collective'

[Nonose]

I've noticed for a while that my dhs sons are treated as a 'Collective' by birth parents. So it's 'the boys this, the boys that' which is fine but the younger one has never really been where he should be for his age and I think it's in part due to this thinking. For example, the younger one (nearly 16) would nerve think to send a text or buy a gift as an individual as the older one always does it for him or he is told to include his younger brother. My dh has been in Hospiral today for a procedure and he said 'the boys text to serve their love', turns out it was just the older one who sent it. I wonder why DH feels the need to say it's from both when it's clearly just from 1. My husband has had quite thoughtful gifts from older ss but I've heard him telling other people 'oh the boys got me this'. When younger ss had no involvement?? There are lots of examples of this - I just feel this has been a hindrance to younger ss actually coming on as an individual. He never thinks of his own accord even asking if he should put his shoes on if we are going out!?!? Has anyone else thought/ce across this? I have an only child- so perhaps I might behave this way if I had more than 1 but to be honest, I find it really odd.

No experience of this but I can totally see your point.

I hope DH is okay!

Yeah I can totally see your point. Have you spoken to your DH about this?

@aSofaNearYou I haven't. There have been lots of issues over younger SS eating/behaviour and I feel that if I point this out it's yet another thing I'm saying. Younger SS has been massively babied by his mother and until we got together, his Dad. We learned recently the mother is still putting him to bed at night!!!! (we stopped this about 2 years ago which I still felt was quite late). All combined, It's made me not enjoy younger SS as for me every time he's around there is some kind of hassle, either with him or his mother. I've had some counselling as I don't want to feel like this but I just find this interesting today.

And yes, all good health wise with DH.

This happens in non step families too. Growing up with my sister we were always referred to as "The girls" so I always try to refer to my DSC by their names. So even if they have done something together its, x & y did this.

I can see how it's done naturally but having been on the receiving end I know how much it can annoy the children to be seen as one unit. And especially now we have LO too.

The mother is putting her 15 year old son to bed, am I reading that right?

It's wrong IMO. I have some experience of this but sort of the opposite. I am the youngest with six years between me and the eldest. I always felt lumped in with my older siblings, like my parents were bored of it all by the time I arrived. I never felt I got to enjoy being a kid in any way, some specific examples (but there are infinite) they told me about Santa when I was four, had me putting myself to bed when my older sibling started putting herself to bed, ignored me for most of my teens, didn't provide for me to go to college etc. They sound petty but the overwhelming feeling is more important really, I always knew they were silently saying "just hurry up please, I can't be bothered doing this all again."

I refer to my daughters as the 'girls' sometimes. Like if we're going out I'll shout out "are you ready girls?"
I would also ask a friend "how are the boys or how are the kids?"... I don't name each one.

It hasn't affected their development or growing up. They're very much individuals with their own personalities.

When my siblings and I were growing up, my parents usually referred to us as .".the kids."

In our teens and early 20s, we would often pool our then meager funds to buy them 1 nice gift. The card that accompanied the gift would generally say from the kids and would be signed by the person picking up the gift.

These practices did not indicate neither a lack of interest in our parents nor an inability to make independent decisions. It was simply a convenient way to speak and to purchase a better gift than any one of us could afford at the time.

@Tattler2

When my siblings and I were growing up, my parents usually referred to us as .".the kids."

In our teens and early 20s, we would often pool our then meager funds to buy them 1 nice gift. The card that accompanied the gift would generally say from the kids and would be signed by the person picking up the gift.

These practices did not indicate neither a lack of interest in our parents nor an inability to make independent decisions. It was simply a convenient way to speak and to purchase a better gift than any one of us could afford at the time.

Very interesting and totally irrelevant. If only you bought the gift every time but the gratitude was expressed to all siblings how would you feel?

@Honeymare
As the OP is neither the giver nor the recipient, it is unlikely that she can say with any degree of certainty what conversation or money transpires between the brothers regarding the purchase or terms of the gift or what information may have been confided to the recipient.

If I were ever to have been in a position to provide a gift when my siblings were unable or unwilling, it would never have occurred to me to be angry that gratitude was expressed to all. The purpose of gift giving to our parents was to make them happy. If they were happy thinking that something was from all of the kids, then we would have achieved our purpose. I would never have been so petty or lacking in confidence to feel in anyway marginalized because I had to share in my parents gratitude. How would I have been in any ways damaged by them being grateful to my siblings???

[quote Tattler2]@Honeymare
As the OP is neither the giver nor the recipient, it is unlikely that she can say with any degree of certainty what conversation or money transpires between the brothers regarding the purchase or terms of the gift or what information may have been confided to the recipient.

If I were ever to have been in a position to provide a gift when my siblings were unable or unwilling, it would never have occurred to me to be angry that gratitude was expressed to all. The purpose of gift giving to our parents was to make them happy. If they were happy thinking that something was from all of the kids, then we would have achieved our purpose. I would never have been so petty or lacking in confidence to feel in anyway marginalized because I had to share in my parents gratitude. How would I have been in any ways damaged by them being grateful to my siblings???[/quote]
Tattler this feels predictably obtuse. It's a problem for the younger one, not the older one who has to share the gratitude. It is part of a wider issue with the younger boy not learning to think for himself, and think of others. These are important parts of growing up.

@aSofaNearYou
The assumption is that the younger boy is not having dialogues with his brother about the gift giving. My siblings and I managed to do joint gift giving as kids and yet all managed to become independent decision makers. My sister who is the eldest and the most organized amongst us often took the lead in the planning in our younger days. None of that prohibited or limited our growing up and becoming full functioning adults. Nor were we damaged by our parents by our parents referring to us collectively as the kids.

The OP 's younger step son may be lazy or he may be a late bloomer, but there is nothing mentioned that is necessarily impeding his development nor dooming him to a life as an indecisive adult decision maker. Sometimes kids and adults just choose not to do things because there are others stepping up to do those things for them: that does not make them incapable or unwilling. It simply means that they choose the easiest course.

@Tattler2 I think it's your assumption that it is an assumption, tbh. When you live in a situation you are able to witness people's behaviour and draw conclusions about cause and correlation. I think it's very likely that OP IS aware whether he is involved or not, and is also not pulling the statement that he doesn't think for himself out of her arse. These are obviously linked things and perfectly sensible things for parents to pick up on and address.

@aSofaNearYou
How likely is it that the 2_parents who reared the older child to be responsible and sensitive are indifferent are unaware of or indifferent to the developmental characteristics of their younger child? It does not sound as though this is a situation in which there is a vast age difference between the 2 sons.

My point is that the 2 people with what would one would assume to be the closest relationship with both boys do not seem , at least by the information provided by the OP, to be observing any developmental delays, nor has she presented any information that suggest that they are indifferent in regards to the parenting of 1 child vs the other.

The father and sons seem comfortable in the gift giving arrangements. If her husband is not unhappy with the situation and neither boy is complaining about the arrangement, the OP may be seeing a solution in need of a problem.

How likely is it that the 2_parents who reared the older child to be responsible and sensitive are indifferent are unaware of or indifferent to the developmental characteristics of their younger child?

In my experience it’s very likely. Children get treated differently by parents in many homes… golden child syndrome anyone?
My youngest SD is treated so vastly different to her older sister it’s a joke.

How likely is it that the 2_parents who reared the older child to be responsible and sensitive are indifferent are unaware of or indifferent to the developmental characteristics of their younger child? It does not sound as though this is a situation in which there is a vast age difference between the 2 sons.

Eer very likely, as anyone that has ever had a golden child, spoilt a child or been blind to their faults, or the faults in their upbringing, can attest to.

In my experience, parents may sometimes treat children differently but not so much do they teach them differently. I have never experienced or heard of a family that teaches children.within the home to have different manners.

The OP is describing a situation where none of the immediately involved participants are unhappy with the arrangement. She who is at arms length may indeed be more objective or equally so the arms length position and her better relationship an opinion of the older son may be coloring her response.

In any case, nothing said dooms the younger child to a life of indecisiveness or inadequate decision making.

@Tattler2

In my experience, parents may sometimes treat children differently but not so much do they teach them differently. I have never experienced or heard of a family that teaches children.within the home to have different manners.

The OP is describing a situation where none of the immediately involved participants are unhappy with the arrangement. She who is at arms length may indeed be more objective or equally so the arms length position and her better relationship an opinion of the older son may be coloring her response.

In any case, nothing said dooms the younger child to a life of indecisiveness or inadequate decision making.

The older sibling did not have an older sibling to do these things for them. This is uncharted territory for these parents.

No he isn't doomed, but that doesn't mean that with a bit of critical thinking it isn't possible to deduce that this may not be helping.

We all know your views about "people are happy as they are, why have an opinion" but they are specific to you and there's not much to say on that part. Other people consider it normal to have opinions on things regardless of whether other people are satisfied.

@aSofaNearYou
I won't comment on this issue again. My thinking generally is that if something is working well enough such that those people directly involved are satisfied, what more can others expect?

Most of us feel fortunate when we can live our lives to our satisfaction, it is a bit much to expect our lives to be conducted by polling.

I don't doubt that the OP and the parents all want what is best for this child. Hopefully, he will grown-up to be a well functioning adult whatever one might think of his current status and functioning.

[quote Tattler2]@aSofaNearYou
I won't comment on this issue again. My thinking generally is that if something is working well enough such that those people directly involved are satisfied, what more can others expect?

Most of us feel fortunate when we can live our lives to our satisfaction, it is a bit much to expect our lives to be conducted by polling.

I don't doubt that the OP and the parents all want what is best for this child. Hopefully, he will grown-up to be a well functioning adult whatever one might think of his current status and functioning.[/quote]
Polling? It's just all a bit much as a way of thinking. She is the child's father's wife, she witnesses the dynamic, she's formed an opinion on it. Occasionally, she may even tell her husband her opinion. All perfectly run of the mill stuff and to be expected within a marriage.

@aSofaNearYou
I have no more thoughts on the OP's post, but as to your comment about what is to be expected within a marriage, if some particular action or behavior of his children makes my husband happy then I am happy for and with him. We can and do share information ,but neither of us ever offers parenting advice or opinions about the other's children unless it is specifically asked for or it is a behavior that is in some way affecting us all.

We are very respectful of each other's right to parent as we think best and cognizant of the fact that there are many different parenting routes that all lead to good outcomes.

It is not indifference to the child 's behavior or lack of an opinion that causes us to step back but a mutually agreed upon respect for the other's right to be the parent that they choose to be.

I am not advocating this practice as best for everyone or even a few ,but it has saved us from being unnecessarily judgemental about issues that can cause hard feelings and conflict. We each feel supported in our choice to be the parents that we choose to be.

A friends youngest DS didn't speak except for a couple of single words until he was about 3 or 4. Friend was obviously really worried, they tried everything he just wasn't interested.

Then one day he said a complete grammatically correct sentence something like 'can you pass me the train please?' Friend was amazed and asked why he'd not spoken earlier, and he said he hadn't needed anything until then - his older brother had always made sure he had what he needed 🤣

@flotsomandjetsome

I was not going to make any more comments, but your story reminded me of a former colleague whose daughter rarely spoke until she was 4 or 5. Her pediatrician told her that the older daughter was anticipating the sister's needs and speaking for her. Today the younger daughter is a high level administrator in a well known power company.

When reminded of those days, she jokingly say that even at a young age she had people working for her. I guess all's well that ends well.

Me and my sister have always sorted family gifts together. It means we can get one really nice gift rather than two which are just ok…are you sure they’re not working together?