AITA? Splitting costs

[nora46]

Hello lovely ladies! This one needs a bit of context, but I'd be interested in your thoughts please.

DH and I have been married for three years, together for around seven. SD is now 10 years old. DH was in debt when we met despite a decent salary as he significantly overpaid his ex due to his paranoia about being seen as a 'bad dad' and her threats of taking SD away/taking him to court etc. He had some other previous debts too as they had taken out a loan to go to Disney and he had historic debt from a failed business venture.

Of course with the giant overpayments he was making to BM (now stopped and he is making CSA calculated payments) it took him a long time to get clear of debt and now he has 'usual' monthly credit card debt but not major, and is starting to get savings.

Throughout all of this I used my own savings to put down the deposit on our house, to pay for house repairs and for our wedding. He went through a period of self employment which I supported by paying more of the bills, for which he was very grateful, and he has been back in FT employment for nearly two years at his previous salary rate. He is gradually 'paying me back' (I put it in the savings acc I use for house things so it's really just going back into the joint pot which is in dire need of replenishment).

Our accounts are separate, because of his debt. We pay equally into a joint account for mortgage, bills and groceries.

So we are pretty much OK now though as we have a bigger mortgage I don't have the savings power that I used to, and my money pot is severely depleted.

When DH first moved in with me, we agreed that we would pay half each of bills and expenses and that DH would cover any additional costs for SD- days out etc.

Clearly this was a while ago, but it had continued ever since. I would sometimes pay 50/50 at meals etc if they weren't very expensive.

A few weeks ago, MIL wanted us to all go out for delayed birthday celebrations, which we did. I was on a tight budget so ordered pretty frugally and my meal came to about £20 all in. DH said SD could eat from the main menu rather than the (actually decent) kids menu, which is about £5 (which I had suggested). They spent around £70 between them.

MIL kindly paid for most of the overall bill so we only had £60 to pay her, which DH covered at the time. He then asked if I could transfer some money to him for the food. I said sure, I'd transfer £20 for mine, leaving the £40 for DH and SD.

DH got really angry about that. According to him that meant we weren't acting "as a family" and I am making SD to be his "problem" (his word, not mine!) and nothing to me etc. He really went off about it and has a short and fairly nasty temper when he does lose it so I didn't really weigh in at that time. He mentioned that I have paid for some things 50/50 which is why he was expecting it there. He also said that "other people" pay half. He didn't have specific examples, but that's partly why I'm coming here to ask.

So, I let it cool down and he apologised, though he wasn't clear what for. I put it down to stress around finances in general, but am pissed off that he a.) never ASKED for me to help out with this, just expected it b.) spent WAY more than I did c.) if he has been expecting me to pay too, my opinion on the kids menu should have been taken into account.

However, it's clear that he still somehow thinks that I should be paying for things like that. When SD had a friend over the following weekend, DH asked what the situation would be re paying for her and her friends' activities etc. At that point I just said we'd go to the splash park (free) then they could play at the house and I'll make a picnic. But the reality is I will definitely not be contributing to any days out, unless it's for my own ticket. I am, however, more than happy to help with the organisation of things, pack up picnics etc.

Clearly this needs addressing, especially as we're out for food on Saturday with SD, but before that I just wondered if I am actually BTA for not wanting to do this. I had considered whether we'd be better off pooling all of our money, but I'm not entirely comfortable that our spending goals are or will be the same, I'd say we have different money 'personas': his is affection, mine is security.

At this point I should say that DH earns a lot more than I do. He earns over £1.1k more than me every month (take home). His maintenance payments are just under £400 so he still has around £700 pm more than me. THIS is what gets me. I pay half of all bills, my savings have supported us for years and yet if I don't pay for half of SD's meals etc, despite having no say over what she spends, I'm "not being family".

I have a good relationship with SD. I do suspect that DH is sometimes secretly upset that we aren't a 'real' family and that I don't love her as if she was my own, but we just aren't. She has a mum and it's not me. SD and I are both OK with this and I take care of her just the same. She was really upset at something last week and DH didn't know what to do, so I dealt with it and he was immensely grateful.

So... and sorry for such a long post...
If you're in a similar situation do you split your money this way?
AITA ???

He's taking the piss. His child IS his 'problem', to use his words. If you choose to contribute financially, that's up to you. But in no way should it be expected.

Sounds like there's a bit of a power dynamic going on op with DH.

I don't think your being unreasonable, I also think your being taken for a ride. You have given a lot of support financially and otherwise and it's slipped into the realms from being grateful for the help to being expected for the help. Dangerous

I would sit down with DH and realign what you both expect. Write it down on paper and say you get x, I get x - I pay for Y you pay for Z = I'm left with £100 left over and your left with £700 does that seem fair ? Ok no fine let's realign, if he says yes than make him articulate how this is fair given his current lense of 50/50

I did this with DH as he had completely overlooked that I was doing the majority of housework and the few last chores he had to do he was leaving to me. We both work FT actually I work more hours.

I always say it's ok to pick up some slack, but when your partner drops the rope, you have to pick it up and to be aware balance is needed so resentment doesn't grow.

Also can we not on the whole BM thing please. We know no ones meaning it to be offensive, it's usually a new poster and there's a difference between correcting incorrect language and ripping the poster apart and not offering any advice other than to shame someone. Educating someone and shaming someone are completely different things and let's not let take out your own anger issues on someone for making a mistake. I know this area is usually the emotional beating place for people to take out their own issues but keep it constructive.

It's also flawed character assassination if you think you can read that much into it. It reflects badly on you.

@candlelightsatdawn

Sounds like there's a bit of a power dynamic going on op with DH.

I don't think your being unreasonable, I also think your being taken for a ride. You have given a lot of support financially and otherwise and it's slipped into the realms from being grateful for the help to being expected for the help. Dangerous

I would sit down with DH and realign what you both expect. Write it down on paper and say you get x, I get x - I pay for Y you pay for Z = I'm left with £100 left over and your left with £700 does that seem fair ? Ok no fine let's realign, if he says yes than make him articulate how this is fair given his current lense of 50/50

I did this with DH as he had completely overlooked that I was doing the majority of housework and the few last chores he had to do he was leaving to me. We both work FT actually I work more hours.

I always say it's ok to pick up some slack, but when your partner drops the rope, you have to pick it up and to be aware balance is needed so resentment doesn't grow.

Also can we not on the whole BM thing please. We know no ones meaning it to be offensive, it's usually a new poster and there's a difference between correcting incorrect language and ripping the poster apart and not offering any advice other than to shame someone. Educating someone and shaming someone are completely different things and let's not let take out your own anger issues on someone for making a mistake. I know this area is usually the emotional beating place for people to take out their own issues but keep it constructive.

It's also flawed character assassination if you think you can read that much into it. It reflects badly on you.

Thank you candlelights, yes, this is what I am thinking. DH does mean well and better than he comes across in this scenario. He is very bull headed at times and will be completely blind to reality until it has had time to sink in. I am going to look over our joint finances first and see how they might be improved, I have access to his budgets and bank statements so have a good idea of what's going on really. I would like us to have a joint savings account specifically for the house repair costs for example, and to re check in together about our financial priorities. As you suggest I will write this down and we can review what our options are and how we can do better.

DH's expenses are quite a lot higher than mine when taken separately as he is paying off a car and has much higher petrol costs due to the driving he does to collect SD so he doesn't have a lot of spare money floating around, and he does give me money each month. However he really shouldn't be struggling at the end of each month. As it stands, it doesn't feel equitable of course and I feel our financial security is decreased as a result.

Why does it bother you so much that SD got to eat of a adult menu instead of a child’s menu?

She’s 10 and children portions could be too small. I let me 10 year old pick of a adult menu occasionally if I know she likes the items on it.

Did she actually eat all her food?

I don’t think you are tight either btw.

I think he’s took you for a bit of a ride at the beginning with you helping so much but I couldn’t imagine having a relationship where we argue over a tenner.

@nora46 there's always a spender and always a saver in each relationship.

Sounds silly but black and white will help bring some clarity to the situation. Explain what the savings are for and definitely not for in granular detail, I also had to do this DH and he came up with some really wild situations to test the boundaries around that money that's been ring fenced, even now he does . Make sure no wires crossed because he may have the thought oh well we fill do this and it can just come from x pot. Also send it in text form so you have documentation re the discussion and parameters of it. In case he accidentally forgets.

@Vanilla1Cookies I don't think this is about the money per say but the slide into doing a favour into expected outcome. It's insidious you know, esp if your with someone that acts first thinks later oops the money is gone and I'm in debt.

@Vanilla1Cookies

Why does it bother you so much that SD got to eat of a adult menu instead of a child’s menu?

She’s 10 and children portions could be too small. I let me 10 year old pick of a adult menu occasionally if I know she likes the items on it.

Did she actually eat all her food?

Well it matters because for the guilt trip about them being a "family" to be valid, she would have had to have had equal say about what was ordered and therefore split equally. The kids meals might have been too small, but OP gave the impression she didn't think they were. If she was the child's mother and therefore as responsible for her as their father, her opinion would on that would have been listened to.

@Vanilla1Cookies

Why does it bother you so much that SD got to eat of a adult menu instead of a child’s menu?

She’s 10 and children portions could be too small. I let me 10 year old pick of a adult menu occasionally if I know she likes the items on it.

Did she actually eat all her food?

It is quite a substantial menu at that restaurant, but my point is that he expected to use my money with no indication that he intended to and without any say on how it would be spent.

[quote candlelightsatdawn]@nora46 there's always a spender and always a saver in each relationship.

Sounds silly but black and white will help bring some clarity to the situation. Explain what the savings are for and definitely not for in granular detail, I also had to do this DH and he came up with some really wild situations to test the boundaries around that money that's been ring fenced, even now he does . Make sure no wires crossed because he may have the thought oh well we fill do this and it can just come from x pot. Also send it in text form so you have documentation re the discussion and parameters of it. In case he accidentally forgets. [/quote]
Thank you, yes that's good advice, he definitely isn't great at willpower when our needs trump our wants.
He is definitely a 'move the pots' man! And definitely will email the outcome as he is very, very forgetful.

Thank you everyone for your contributions and for taking the time to respond- I have lots of food for thought and feel positive that we can come up with something that is more equitable.

[quote candlelightsatdawn]@Vanilla1Cookies I don't think this is about the money per say but the slide into doing a favour into expected outcome. It's insidious you know, esp if your with someone that acts first thinks later oops the money is gone and I'm in debt. [/quote]
Exactly that! It's not the one time, it's the times that follow.

But you had no intention of paying if he ordered SD a kids meal or a adult meal so to get hung up on the fact she had a adult meal isn’t relevant.

I think you have paid out more then enough at the beginning and that’s where all the problems started. You now seem to be wising up about how much you have paid out over time so simple things like £10 difference on a meal is a big deal.

@Vanilla1Cookies I don't think that's the point. She probably could have overlooked the child's meal, but it is actually her money funding the bill there should have been a discussion of "I'm gonna get SC a adult meal is that cool ?"

Not a I'm gonna get whatever we like and you can foot the bill.
If someone's paying for my meal I don't order the most expensive thing on the menu it's manners.

@Vanilla1Cookies

But you had no intention of paying if he ordered SD a kids meal or a adult meal so to get hung up on the fact she had a adult meal isn’t relevant.

I think you have paid out more then enough at the beginning and that’s where all the problems started. You now seem to be wising up about how much you have paid out over time so simple things like £10 difference on a meal is a big deal.

It's not irrelevant at all. If he wants them to be a "family" and therefore split all expenses for his daughter, he would need to behave like a they were on equal footing as parents, which would mean a discussion and agreement struck around OPs suggestion of the kids menu. It is actually a very important precedent highlighting a double standard in his attitude that only works in his favour.

Shes not BM. She's mum.

CMS is bare legal minimum. He wasnt over paying he was paying.

If I spent so much money on my son that I ended up in debt and unable to support myself, I would have been over paying. In other words, spending beyond my means. Champagne lifestyle, lemonade budget. All fur coat and no knickers. Etc etc.
Financial stability underpinning a child's family is far more important than all the luxuries this man has been overpaying for.

@Willyoujustbequiet

Shes not BM. She's mum.

CMS is bare legal minimum. He wasnt over paying he was paying.

This has been address led further down the thread.

I don't know why people say things like this and literally have nothing constructive to say other than have a jab. It's boring and frankly getting old.

Of course NRP’s can over pay for their children

My DP was “over paying” for years. By over paying I mean he was contributing more than his fair share towards his DDs upbringing whilst financially their mum contributed very little.

He paid way over CMS, plus all phones, electronics, insurances, bus passes, haircuts, glasses, school dinners, uniforms, pretty much all of their clothes, trainers / shoes, extra curricula activities, all school trips etc.

Plus providing a nice home for them with him, etc and all the expenses that come with that also.

It got to the point where he was broke before the end of the month and his ex was living very comfortably and able to afford great luxuries for herself (yes for herself… think 2 week holidays to Goa, new car, designer goods etc).

It was “over paying” in the sense that he was covering much more proportionately to their financial needs than their mum. Most of the extra expenses over and above CMS should be split 50/50 between both parents, it shouldn’t fall nearly 100% solely onto one parent.

It’s the same situation as when men choose to only contribute basic CMS and nothing more, in that case it falls solely to the mum which is also wrong.

If the parents are decent the expenses should be fairly and equitably split.

My DP now still covers things like phone bills etc but with regards to uniform for example, he’ll either go halves or say “I’ll pay for DD1s uniform and bus pass and you pay for DD2s” to make it fairer.

Anyway, sorry OP your thread has been derailed.

No you aren’t being unfair at all. She is his DD and you have been extremely generous throughout your time together. It sounds like you’re a kind, decent person but you’ve reached your limit as you feel he’s taking advantage now.

You should both be contributing to the household expenses proportionately to your wage, and in a truly fair situation you should both be contributing towards savings and have the same amount of disposable income.

When SD had a friend over the following weekend, DH asked what the situation would be re paying for her and her friends' activities etc.

I find this so odd. What does he mean, ‘the situation’? Ice cream man tells him how much they are, he hands over a tenner. Of his own money, not joint. It’s not hard to grasp. And if his big bad temper doesn’t allow for you to tell him that, yours just needs to get bigger and badder until it does.

@MiddleParking

When SD had a friend over the following weekend, DH asked what the situation would be re paying for her and her friends' activities etc.

I find this so odd. What does he mean, ‘the situation’? Ice cream man tells him how much they are, he hands over a tenner. Of his own money, not joint. It’s not hard to grasp. And if his big bad temper doesn’t allow for you to tell him that, yours just needs to get bigger and badder until it does.

Yeah, I struggled to comprehend the cheek of that comment 🤯

@MiddleParking

When SD had a friend over the following weekend, DH asked what the situation would be re paying for her and her friends' activities etc.

I find this so odd. What does he mean, ‘the situation’? Ice cream man tells him how much they are, he hands over a tenner. Of his own money, not joint. It’s not hard to grasp. And if his big bad temper doesn’t allow for you to tell him that, yours just needs to get bigger and badder until it does.

We all know what he meant here - was the OP going to pay 50/50 of the costs for his DD and her friend? He's definitely a CF!

You are most definitely not the arsehole and he's a massive cf. if he wants to be flash and allow sd to eat from the adult menu then that's his decision. 10 can be a borderline age when it comes to kids meals and if it wasn't big enough I'd be offering food off my plate as I was the parent and could make myself a bit more food at home.

Sd's friends are basically a sd cost and he should be paying. If he can't afford to treat her friends then he needs to cut his cloth accordingly even if it's just offering an ice cream from your freezer.