AITA? Splitting costs

[nora46]

Hello lovely ladies! This one needs a bit of context, but I'd be interested in your thoughts please.

DH and I have been married for three years, together for around seven. SD is now 10 years old. DH was in debt when we met despite a decent salary as he significantly overpaid his ex due to his paranoia about being seen as a 'bad dad' and her threats of taking SD away/taking him to court etc. He had some other previous debts too as they had taken out a loan to go to Disney and he had historic debt from a failed business venture.

Of course with the giant overpayments he was making to BM (now stopped and he is making CSA calculated payments) it took him a long time to get clear of debt and now he has 'usual' monthly credit card debt but not major, and is starting to get savings.

Throughout all of this I used my own savings to put down the deposit on our house, to pay for house repairs and for our wedding. He went through a period of self employment which I supported by paying more of the bills, for which he was very grateful, and he has been back in FT employment for nearly two years at his previous salary rate. He is gradually 'paying me back' (I put it in the savings acc I use for house things so it's really just going back into the joint pot which is in dire need of replenishment).

Our accounts are separate, because of his debt. We pay equally into a joint account for mortgage, bills and groceries.

So we are pretty much OK now though as we have a bigger mortgage I don't have the savings power that I used to, and my money pot is severely depleted.

When DH first moved in with me, we agreed that we would pay half each of bills and expenses and that DH would cover any additional costs for SD- days out etc.

Clearly this was a while ago, but it had continued ever since. I would sometimes pay 50/50 at meals etc if they weren't very expensive.

A few weeks ago, MIL wanted us to all go out for delayed birthday celebrations, which we did. I was on a tight budget so ordered pretty frugally and my meal came to about £20 all in. DH said SD could eat from the main menu rather than the (actually decent) kids menu, which is about £5 (which I had suggested). They spent around £70 between them.

MIL kindly paid for most of the overall bill so we only had £60 to pay her, which DH covered at the time. He then asked if I could transfer some money to him for the food. I said sure, I'd transfer £20 for mine, leaving the £40 for DH and SD.

DH got really angry about that. According to him that meant we weren't acting "as a family" and I am making SD to be his "problem" (his word, not mine!) and nothing to me etc. He really went off about it and has a short and fairly nasty temper when he does lose it so I didn't really weigh in at that time. He mentioned that I have paid for some things 50/50 which is why he was expecting it there. He also said that "other people" pay half. He didn't have specific examples, but that's partly why I'm coming here to ask.

So, I let it cool down and he apologised, though he wasn't clear what for. I put it down to stress around finances in general, but am pissed off that he a.) never ASKED for me to help out with this, just expected it b.) spent WAY more than I did c.) if he has been expecting me to pay too, my opinion on the kids menu should have been taken into account.

However, it's clear that he still somehow thinks that I should be paying for things like that. When SD had a friend over the following weekend, DH asked what the situation would be re paying for her and her friends' activities etc. At that point I just said we'd go to the splash park (free) then they could play at the house and I'll make a picnic. But the reality is I will definitely not be contributing to any days out, unless it's for my own ticket. I am, however, more than happy to help with the organisation of things, pack up picnics etc.

Clearly this needs addressing, especially as we're out for food on Saturday with SD, but before that I just wondered if I am actually BTA for not wanting to do this. I had considered whether we'd be better off pooling all of our money, but I'm not entirely comfortable that our spending goals are or will be the same, I'd say we have different money 'personas': his is affection, mine is security.

At this point I should say that DH earns a lot more than I do. He earns over £1.1k more than me every month (take home). His maintenance payments are just under £400 so he still has around £700 pm more than me. THIS is what gets me. I pay half of all bills, my savings have supported us for years and yet if I don't pay for half of SD's meals etc, despite having no say over what she spends, I'm "not being family".

I have a good relationship with SD. I do suspect that DH is sometimes secretly upset that we aren't a 'real' family and that I don't love her as if she was my own, but we just aren't. She has a mum and it's not me. SD and I are both OK with this and I take care of her just the same. She was really upset at something last week and DH didn't know what to do, so I dealt with it and he was immensely grateful.

So... and sorry for such a long post...
If you're in a similar situation do you split your money this way?
AITA ???

This whole thing is a mess. But for a start, if he has £700 more than you per month then he needs to be repaying you at a higher rate than he currently is!
Whoever said cocklodger alert is spot on - he sounds really tightfisted, picking at you over his child's costs, when he owes you so much money. Get that back asap because as things stand he has half the stake in that house and your initial investment wasn't ringfenced.
I wouldn't have a baby with him tbh.

A different perspective on this one.

DH earns half the amount that I do, I have no kids. We're married and have been together for nearly a decade.

We pay 60:40 into our joint account for bills, shopping etc. I earn more, his kids ear is out of house ans home but he also has maintenance etc to pay.

When we combined houses we were lucky in that I could buy a house large enough for us and the teens and he rented his house out. We both work similar hours, I'm just in a different profession that pays better. The deal is that if anything happens he has a house, I have a house. It's never that cut and dried but I've not taken anything from him and likewise with him.

Last year in COVID the arse fell out of my industry and I got no commission or bonuses, it was those bonuses that gave us the frilly stuff, holidays, meals out, treats etc. The first thing we both did was sit down and work out what we couldn't do any more and we reigned everything in massively to be sure that neither of us were feeling hard done by.

I don't think you're getting the same level of fairness from your other half. I've always put my hand in my pocket when I can because we're a unit. But I also know that when the chips were down I wasn't treated like a mug. I think your other half isn't reflecting on your history and generosity with the same lens unfortunately

YANBU at all and his attitude sounds generally awful. Don't think for a second that you should have to put up with it.

I also know that when the chips were down I wasn't treated like a mug.

This right here is the crux of it. It's not about who pays for what exactly but about being in it together and being fair, which doesn't necessarily mean equal.

After reading this post, I am having her processing the concept that a parent can" overpay" for their children. What exactly does that mean? Child maintenance is the minimum that at a given income level one is legally required to pay. Paying more is not over paying for your child, it just means that you are not willing to pay the legal minimum required to support your child.

I just paid semester tuition for my kids.. Does that means that I am over paying to support MT kids?

Not trying to minimize OP's complaint, but I really find the notion that one can over pay to support their own child to be an offensive suggestion. If you choose to contribute xyz then you are just supporting your children in the manner that you think to be reasonable. That is not over payment ; that is responsible parenting.

His behaviour wasn’t acceptable.

We treat these costs as family costs that come of the family money (our accounts are joint).

I think the ex-wife is getting a bit too much blame here - he wasn’t just in debt because he paid more than the (bare minimum) legally required amount of maintenance, he’d made several poor choices that left him in debt. He’s bad with money. That’s what’s making the situation difficult. If he made good choices about cash you could just split everything. But he doesn’t, so you can’t.

@Tiredoftattler

After reading this post, I am having her processing the concept that a parent can" overpay" for their children. What exactly does that mean? Child maintenance is the minimum that at a given income level one is legally required to pay. Paying more is not over paying for your child, it just means that you are not willing to pay the legal minimum required to support your child.

I just paid semester tuition for my kids.. Does that means that I am over paying to support MT kids?

Not trying to minimize OP's complaint, but I really find the notion that one can over pay to support their own child to be an offensive suggestion. If you choose to contribute xyz then you are just supporting your children in the manner that you think to be reasonable. That is not over payment ; that is responsible parenting.

I don't read anything wrong into that, overpaying can mean the difference between £350 a month and £750 a month and it says a lot about the man being discussed. His motivation, history of the problem etc.

Why on earth do you keep referring to the child's mother as "BM". I assume you mean birth mother? But this sounds like a mother who is very much in her child's life? So she is her mother. And you are the step mother.

(I am a mother and a step mother. I wouldn't dream of calling my step children's mum their "birth mum". She is their mum)

Also I would be disappointed in a man who only paid CSA minimum, it's certainly not something to be proud of

@Tiredoftattler a person can 'overpay' for their children! You 'overpay' for them when you cannot afford to pay the amount you're paying and this then impacts the rest of your finances!
My reading of op's original post is that her dp overpaid on maintenance when he should have been using the 'spare' money to clear debts some of which (the loan to go to Disney) had been incurred by both him AND his ex. The failed business venture was also quite possibly something started with or with the approval of his exw.
Either way his focus on separating from her should have been to pay his maintenance but to also clear the debt incurred while they were together - not to give her more than was needed and remain in debt.
I wouldn't buy 'extras' for my dc if I had debt - I'd insist we all tighten our belts!

I’ve always paid for things for my DSS…. Even before joint accounts I’d take him out and pay for things for him. Before joint accounts though if we all went for food with DSS DH would have paid for us all.

If the 50/50 finances work for you then fair enough… but i do think if that’s how you do it then it should be split down the middle when your DSC is there. Do you should have split the bill equally as you are a family.

For us 50/50 doesn’t work for us …. All our money goes into one pot… all our debts come out of one point. Child maintenance came out of that pot… the pension settlement from his divorce comes out of it too.
There have been times when DH had no income between jobs.. So ‘technically’ I paid maintenance and pension to his ex in that time. But we are a team… a family unit.

Wow. You’ve been basically paying his ex for years by contributing more to the family, and this guy who only ever buys you dinner on your birthday thinks you’re not doing enough for his daughter? He can do one.

@liveforsummer

First off what does AITA and BTA stand for? They are new ones to me. And what's a 'money persona' ?

Am I The Asshole Being The Asshole.

These are used in lots of American forums/ Reddit.

If the 50/50 finances work for you then fair enough… but i do think if that’s how you do it then it should be split down the middle when your DSC is there. Do you should have split the bill equally as you are a family.

Why though? They're paying 50/50 for the household bills they both benefit from, as most adults sharing a home do. Meanwhile, if they were a conventional "family", OP would have been listened to when she said DSD should order from the kids menu.

What you've said above doesn't actually make sense and it's just the same emotional manipulation used by people like OPs husband. "You are a family" is only a remotely fair or valid thing to say if the adults have equal say on how that family is run. Until then, they are a different sort of family that involves him being in charge of his DD.

@KeyboardWorriers

Why on earth do you keep referring to the child's mother as "BM". I assume you mean birth mother? But this sounds like a mother who is very much in her child's life? So she is her mother. And you are the step mother.

(I am a mother and a step mother. I wouldn't dream of calling my step children's mum their "birth mum". She is their mum)

Yawn.

YANBU at all.

Yes, relationships have give and take financially, but it's clear you have given a lot more. I have been with my DH for 12 years and have both earned different amounts at different times.

My DH has also got himself into debt behind my back, which was the only time we really had a strain on our relationship. Money is very complicated and creates a lot of tension.

To get around our issues with his debt, we opened a joint account, called the house account, and we both put all of our money in there, minus about £200 each a month for our personal spending (in your case your husband would also keep the maintenance payment). It doesn't matter who earns more, we just keep the same amount of personal money. It stops him spending money he doesn't have, but also ensures we can cover all the bills and are able to assess how much extra we have for any additional purchases needed each month. Any money left over each month is transferred to our joint savings and we try to have an goal in mind each month to save, although we don't always hit it at least we save something! We could also take the savings out when we get paid if we needed to specifically hit a goal.

We do put some things on the house account such as meals out, clothes and some bigger personal purchases, but these are all discussed beforehand as pooling our money makes us think about it differently psychologically. Since we have done this we have found money so much less stressful and have ended up accumulating savings.

Because of this the meal scenario you described wouldn't have been a big deal to us, he doesn't have a SD but he has a broke friend that he always insists on paying for, and that would have annoyed me if our money was split and he wanted me to transfer him half.

To get to this point took a lot of discussion and compromise. I felt I didn't trust my husband with money as he had got into such a mess beforehand. These days we don't think about it as much, it all just works for us as a family.

It's not "yawn" at all @aSofaNearYou it is a horribly disrespectful and dismissive way to refer to the child's mother. And I say that as a step mum myself.

The rest aside, do you think it would be that tight for me to not pay for SD when she has an adult price meal?

I think at her age the children's menu might be a bit too small portions but depends on the 10 year old. I think he should have paid for her to be honest. You're already subsidising her a lot.

My ex used to pay the mortgage and I covered all the bills . When his children stayed his outgoing remained the same but of course food and utilities were higher. I kept things going when he was unemployed and I paid for SC’s special birthday presents etc as he was very tight . I also took them on holiday and we remain friends even though they are adult now . I have separated from DP and in trying to make a financial settlement he refuses to acknowledge the huge contribution I made to their expenses. He also encouraged the children to order more expensive things off the menu as did he if I was picking up the tab. Protect yourself OP.

@KeyboardWorriers

It's not "yawn" at all *@aSofaNearYou* it is a horribly disrespectful and dismissive way to refer to the child's mother. And I say that as a step mum myself.

Yes, but it's been extremely widely talked about on this forum and it is painfully obvious at this point that people use it out of well intentioned ignorance, they have no idea of the meaning people infer on here and just assume it is one of the many, often confusing established acronyms on here. An easy mistake to make, I didn't put much thought into the possible nuances of "DP/SC/AIBU or whatever it might be either, I just learnt them because they seemed to be the done thing.

So posters like you coming in with a big paragraph about how awful they are to deliberately do something they obviously had no idea of the context of, is very much "yawn". It's a waste of everyone's time, especially your own.

It's all take and no give from him.

You've been subsidising him for years, it sounds from your posts like you do a lot for his daughter (do you do childcare etc.?) and yet, now he's in a better financial position, he keeps his extra income and expects you to fund his child.

Remember, the sunk costs fallacy is a real thing. Don't focus on your 'past investments' but think instead about what is going to optimize your life going forward. At the very least, you need to have a serious conversation so he understands he's been using you.

@aSofaNearYou no it isn't a waste of time because we shouldn't sit back and let people use offensive terms whether through ignorance or otherwise

[quote KeyboardWorriers]@aSofaNearYou no it isn't a waste of time because we shouldn't sit back and let people use offensive terms whether through ignorance or otherwise[/quote]
Acting like she did it on purpose to be offensive, is a waste of time.

He has a short and nasty temper.

The details about money come second to this. You are living in fear of someone and adjusting your behaviour because of their temper.

You don't have to live like this. You deserve better. I'm sorry he is such a nasty man. You are most definitely not the arsehole!

@Tiredoftattler

After reading this post, I am having her processing the concept that a parent can" overpay" for their children. What exactly does that mean? Child maintenance is the minimum that at a given income level one is legally required to pay. Paying more is not over paying for your child, it just means that you are not willing to pay the legal minimum required to support your child.

I just paid semester tuition for my kids.. Does that means that I am over paying to support MT kids?

Not trying to minimize OP's complaint, but I really find the notion that one can over pay to support their own child to be an offensive suggestion. If you choose to contribute xyz then you are just supporting your children in the manner that you think to be reasonable. That is not over payment ; that is responsible parenting.

When it puts and keeps you into debt and is far over and above the legal minimum it is not exactly helpful to the child. If he had died he would have left her nothing but debt. I have no issue with him paying more for his child- he has paid into a savings account for her ever since we met and I suggested he set one up, he pays for extra classes, tuition and activities. I would suggest that spending huge amounts of money on children that goes above and beyond their needs and wants to your own financial detriment would be over paying, yes.