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Original poster

Divorce demands

59 replies

hunkahunka · 11/07/2021 10:07

Partners ex wife divorce demands.
I have posted for a while but name changed for this.
My partner and his stb-ex wife are finalising the divorce.
My partner received a document today from her solicitor that she wants him to sign.

  • It states
  1. that she is the primary carer of the children and that he may have contact with the children from 'time to time' with her permission.
  2. That when the children are in his care she is to know who they are with and where they are at all times and that he may only leave the children in the care of 'immediate' family for childcare if he needs to and that is only with her expressed permission. ( his family don't live local at all and she knows this)
  3. That he may not take the children on holiday without her expressed permission.

He is so upset. We have a holiday book for 2 weeks time and she keeps changing her mind as to whether the SC can come. I can see her saying no and then it spoils our holiday and the SC will be really upset.
Sometimes he may nip to the shop or have to grab something from work and the SC are with us, so I am looking after them, does this mean he will have to ask her permission if I am not 'immediate family'.
Currently he has 50/50 care of the SC and in reality it's more than that. He actually usually does 4/5 days/nights a week rather than a true 50/50 split.
Financially he's not so bothered that she is demanding a lot more from the divorce as it is the SC home too and he is a good man. This however has really upset him.
I have a lovely relationship with his kids and there is no reason for her to say he needs her permission for anything as he is a responsible and loving father.
I am upset, he is upset.
The kids won't know about it because he keeps (quite rightly so) their mothers demands away from the kids.
Can she really legally makes this demands without a good reason?

OP posts:
HalzTangz · 11/07/2021 10:38

Don't sign it, go through courts for joint custody.

She clearly is still bitter at the marriage breakup which she probably blames you for. Hence the childcare demands.
Unless he was ever a threat to his children she can't legally stop him seeing them.

HalzTangz · 11/07/2021 10:39

Also you are his partner and that makes you part of his immediate family

bogoffmda · 11/07/2021 10:47

1 and 2 ridiculous and she can not but 3 she is legally right about if you are going abroad

Fizzgigg · 11/07/2021 10:59

@bogoffmda

1 and 2 ridiculous and she can not but 3 she is legally right about if you are going abroad
But can only block with good reason surely.
Teenangels · 11/07/2021 11:05

Don't sign and tell her to do one, I can't believe a solicitor would even send that.
Go to court and get joint custody.

Mamamamasaurus · 11/07/2021 11:18

Don't sign. Go through the courts. Keep any and all communication with the ex.

NoYOUbekind · 11/07/2021 11:25

If this isn't what he wants, then he shouldn't sign. It's an opening gambit, not a high command. Hopefully he already has a solicitor? He needs to get their advice but to essentially go back with a letter saying no. If they can't decide it between them through solicitors or mediation (has mediation been suggested?) then he will need to take her to court.

Some solicitors will say to their clients 'nah mate, that's not reasonable, I highly recommend you don't ask for that.' Others will say 'sure, you're seriously unlikely to get that but let's give it a pop.' Still others will say ' whatever you like, you're the client.' None of these scenarios mean the other party has to do what is requested of them - he absolutely can say no.

I think the timing means she wants to use the leverage of the holiday to force his hand, by the way. You need to be prepared to give that up for the greater good.

LtDansleg · 11/07/2021 11:27

This is completely batshit. No court will go for this. He has just as much legal right over his children as she does. Sign nothing and start getting legal advice

Original poster
hunkahunka · 11/07/2021 11:34

@bogoffmda

1 and 2 ridiculous and she can not but 3 she is legally right about if you are going abroad
Not abroad just a uk based stay
OP posts:
TotorosCatBus · 11/07/2021 11:39

Get a Child Arrangement Order.
Her demands are cruel and unworkable. If she has cause for concern then she'd make contact supervised but this is clearly not the case.
He does not have to tell her any of the details she's after.
It's polite to say when and where holiday are but that means the hotel and flight numbers, not what you plan to do each day. He shouldn't be wondering if she'll allow the kids to go when it's booked. If she has reason to stop the holiday then she has the ability to stop the holiday but clearly not the case here.
Shocking that a legal professional would type this letter but proves that you can pay for a letter to say whatever you want regardless of the law. She is not getting decent advice if she thinks this is reasonable.

TotorosCatBus · 11/07/2021 11:41

Your h needs to accept that she doesn't trust him and put up suitable boundaries like getting a CAO. (I'm guessing that he's upset because he didn't realise how controlling she is)

Original poster
hunkahunka · 11/07/2021 11:48

@NoYOUbekind

If this isn't what he wants, then he shouldn't sign. It's an opening gambit, not a high command. Hopefully he already has a solicitor? He needs to get their advice but to essentially go back with a letter saying no. If they can't decide it between them through solicitors or mediation (has mediation been suggested?) then he will need to take her to court.

Some solicitors will say to their clients 'nah mate, that's not reasonable, I highly recommend you don't ask for that.' Others will say 'sure, you're seriously unlikely to get that but let's give it a pop.' Still others will say ' whatever you like, you're the client.' None of these scenarios mean the other party has to do what is requested of them - he absolutely can say no.

I think the timing means she wants to use the leverage of the holiday to force his hand, by the way. You need to be prepared to give that up for the greater good.

He hasn't needed a solicitor until now as things have been amicable, that said he doesn't ever disagree or challenge her as it's rocks the boat. This is the first time he's said 'no way' despite months of her being unreasonable. Myself and DP just don't want anything to give her ammunition to stop the SC coming on holiday so have been super accommodating to her changing schedules often or asking DP to have more nights. TBH he would never say no to that as the SC have a home here to and we both welcome the extra time with them. This has come out of nowhere though and is because she doesn't want the SC to have a holiday with us. There has been months of her telling the SC they will miss their friends too much and 'what if you need mummy and I'm not there' but they have stayed firm in wanting to come so we have included them in the booking. It seem now that hasn't worked she is going to make DP sign this and they say they can go and she knows DP would never tell the SC that this is why so she can make him the bad guy! I want to be there for him and support him as best I can, I am also gutted for the SC as they have been choosing the activities we will be doing and the attractions we will visit after such a long time in lockdown.
OP posts:
MouldyPotato · 11/07/2021 12:01

Think long term and not just this holiday. 1 & 2 are ridiculous and 3 is ok but only for foreign holidays and if he is given then same.

AlternativePerspective · 11/07/2021 12:05

Tel her to do one.

Then go to court and get a child arrangement order which ensures he can bring the children on holiday, and beyond that go back to court for joint residency.

Original poster
hunkahunka · 11/07/2021 12:06

@MouldyPotato

Think long term and not just this holiday. 1 & 2 are ridiculous and 3 is ok but only for foreign holidays and if he is given then same.
None of it applies to her it's all about him. If it was worded like 'neither parent shall take the children on holiday without the the prior permission of the other parent' I think would have been better or ' neither parent may have anyone other than immediate family provide care for the children without the express permission of the other parent' It's all restrictions for DP and none for her.
OP posts:
MouldyPotato · 11/07/2021 12:08

Yeah it doesn't seem fair at all. He needs to get a solicitor and try not to let the currently planned holiday affect him too much.

AnnaMagnani · 11/07/2021 12:10

It's not amicable and your DP needs to wise up to this immediately. He needs a solicitor as she is using his naivety.

Weirdfan · 11/07/2021 12:26

He needs to apply for a CAO or this 'he doesn't ever disagree or challenge her as it's rocks the boat' will mean he spends years being emotionally blackmailed with the threat of not seeing his DC. Formalising contact takes all her power to control him (and indirectly you too OP) away and means the focus is on what's best for the DC, where it should be. Please believe me when I say he/you will regret it if he doesn't go the legal route, it's where he will end up anyway so save yourselves the time/effort/pain of trying to do this 'amicably' because it's clear from what she's sent that's not going to work.

Berthatydfil · 11/07/2021 12:48

A solicitor will write a letter to say just about anything their client pays them to write - it doesn’t mean anything and certainly your DP doesn’t have to do what’s being asked.
However given she has gone to a solicitor he needs to get one before delay and get his own independent legal advice.
He needs to stop kidding himself it’s amicable - it’s not he’s just not challenged her.
I would recommend that he asks to go to mediation.
She is being very unreasonable - contact with both parents are in the best interests of the children and it’s very unlikely she would be allowed to put those conditions in a court order.

NoYOUbekind · 11/07/2021 12:53

Thing is, a holiday is just a couple of weeks. These conditions will last for years. He has to stand firm. As a pp said, he MUST stop kidding himself that this is an amicable divorce, it clearly isn't. Lawyer up. Do NOT sign this on the basis of preserving the holiday - in fact, what you have to realise is this will give her a legal mechanism to prevent the children going on holiday as she'll have to give express permission.

He should engage a lawyer tomorrow and move forward based on their advice. However, I think it's highly unlikely that the children will be coming on holiday until this plays out, sorry.

tropicalwaterdiver · 11/07/2021 14:01

What are the reasons of their divorce? Did he leave his stbx wife for you?

Obviously she doesn't have a legal ground for such restrictive demands but if her stbx husband just seen go sunset with a new woman and left her life shuttered, I can see why she is bitter.

Pebbledashery · 11/07/2021 14:29

Your partner should take her to court now.. Immediately. She cannot make such ridiculous demands..
I'm fairly certain a judge would give your partner a shared lives with order and joint residence.
She sounds vindictive.

Nowthisisme · 11/07/2021 14:52

@tropicalwaterdiver

What are the reasons of their divorce? Did he leave his stbx wife for you?

Obviously she doesn't have a legal ground for such restrictive demands but if her stbx husband just seen go sunset with a new woman and left her life shuttered, I can see why she is bitter.

^^ignore!! The grounds for divorce are irrelevant.
bogoffmda · 11/07/2021 14:55

It does work both ways - she can not take the DCS abroad without his permission.

EX and OW tried this with me - the fall out from that is still going on.

SeasonFinale · 11/07/2021 15:04

Don't sign and I am afraid it is time for your partner to get legal advice.