How many extracurricular activities are appropriate?

[NinaBernina]

Hi all
First post so please be gentle!
My partner has 2 lovely children (age 8 and 10) who live with their Mum.
They do loads of extracurricular activities which makes it really difficult for him to plan any time to do his own activities with them during his contact time. They always have some show/event/competition/training planned every weekend which their Mum insists they go to.
Is this reasonable? He's happy to support the children with their hobbies, but when it completely dominates the time he spends with them it seems a bit unreasonable?
I'd be interested to hear others' thoughts and how they manage with activities and separated parents.

Could he take them/pick them uo/watch them?

Following this...

A judge told my exh to stop organising clubs /activities and play dates for time our dc should with me... court ordered time.. Even when exh unloaded a huge sports bag of football trophies in his quest for the dc to be too busy to have a dm... Judge told him straight a relationship with the nrp is more important than any club. Ds's coach was fully on board with him missing one night a week.

@CroydianSlip

Could he take them/pick them uo/watch them?

He can (and has done in the past) but it means he can't take them say camping for the weekend, or swimming, or any other activity he enjoys to do with them (and they also enjoy) as there are so many activities, there is something pre-booked literally EVERY weekend. I've seen it mentioned on here before that the resident parent has no say on what can/can't happen when the children are with their other parent? is it fair to book these activities in his contact time and insist the children go?

It's so hard because loads of activities will get in the way of family time and relationships if it really is excessive but if he steps in and says he's not taking them anymore that's probably not going to help his relationship with his kids if it's things they really enjoy.
Maybe it's worth chatting to the kids in a general way about what their favourites are and possible what he'd like to be doing with them during the time they are at their least favourites? Usually would'nt recommend cutting Mum out of the decision but as PP she cannot really "insist" on anything.

@Aprilshowersandhail

A judge told my exh to stop organising clubs /activities and play dates for time our dc should with me... court ordered time.. Even when exh unloaded a huge sports bag of football trophies in his quest for the dc to be too busy to have a dm... Judge told him straight a relationship with the nrp is more important than any club. Ds's coach was fully on board with him missing one night a week.

thanks April - that's really interesting. There has been emotional blackmail "they will hate you if you don't let them do X..." and withholding access "if you don't take them to Y I will keep them with me" I spoke to a couple of friends who said he would be being unreasonable to not take them - and several that said he should be able to plan what he wants to do on his own weekends, so I thought I'd canvas a wider audience! Thanks for all thoughts so far.

I think the question here should not be about what's fair or reasonable, but rather about what is best for the child.

How important are these activities to the children themselves? Are they being driven mainly by mum or by the dc themselves? How would the dc feel about giving stuff up in order to have more time with dad? Might they end up resenting their dad for getting in the way of something they love?

At that age, my dd would not have wanted to give up one of her activities (dancing) for anything - she'd have been heartbroken at the thought. On the other hand, she'd have given up the other (brownies) without much of a fuss at all.

If you start from what's best for the kids, I don't think you can go far wrong.

If you told them that you wanted to do something like camping then would they not want to miss a practice to go?

Other families fit in holidays with hobbies, etc. so it sounds like ex is being a bit difficult

My DC like sports (football and netball) and I know they'd be disappointed to regularly miss a weekend match (it would be fine occasionally).

However, that's my own kids. They're all different.

@Youseethethingis

It's so hard because loads of activities will get in the way of family time and relationships if it really is excessive but if he steps in and says he's not taking them anymore that's probably not going to help his relationship with his kids if it's things they really enjoy. Maybe it's worth chatting to the kids in a general way about what their favourites are and possible what he'd like to be doing with them during the time they are at their least favourites? Usually would'nt recommend cutting Mum out of the decision but as PP she cannot really "insist" on anything.

Thank you for your thoughts - I agree lots of routine things get in the way of family time, even in traditional families. I know it can't all be fun and games - I think the term is "Disney Dadding"? but it always feels like a rush to do the things they say they want to do with us in the limited time they are here - and usually someone ends up disappointed that we haven't managed to fit everything in!

@paralysedbyinertia

I think the question here should not be about what's fair or reasonable, but rather about what is best for the child.

How important are these activities to the children themselves? Are they being driven mainly by mum or by the dc themselves? How would the dc feel about giving stuff up in order to have more time with dad? Might they end up resenting their dad for getting in the way of something they love?

At that age, my dd would not have wanted to give up one of her activities (dancing) for anything - she'd have been heartbroken at the thought. On the other hand, she'd have given up the other (brownies) without much of a fuss at all.

If you start from what's best for the kids, I don't think you can go far wrong.

Thanks again for your reasoned comments, and really good questions! The honest answer is I'm not sure. It's tricky asking the children. They are children who love both parents and want to please, so I believe they give the answer they think the person who is asking the question wants to hear. eg Mum says "you don't want to miss X do you?" then the answer would be "No, I don't want to miss X" but if Dad said, "Do you want to do Y instead of X?" then the answer would be "Yes I want to do Y". which puts the adults immediately in conflict, both believing they are acting in the children's best interests!

I think that's very perceptive of you OP. Most kids do like to please their parents.

Yeah, I can see that it's difficult to know exactly where/who the push is coming from. I can only suggest that you and/or your DH try to have some general chats with them around their activities to get an idea of what they actually feel. Which ones do they like best, what do they enjoy about them, are there any aspects that they don't like etc. If it's just general conversation, rather than a choice about whether they want to do x or y this weekend, hopefully you'll be able to get a better idea of what these activities actually mean for the children.

I think it's too much when it's taking a toll on the child. Normal family life isn't tonnes of quality time together, its teenagers doing activities and being ferried to their friends houses. I used to do weekly activities as a child and would not have wanted to miss these or miss socialising on a regular basis.

Most of my activities were term time only which left time for holidays and I was happy to miss for special events like family parties. Is this not the same for you DSC?

At 8&10 (yr5/6 &yr3/4) both my DCs had something on at least one weekend day each (Riding for one, football for the other swimming for both). It's kind of a special time to experience lots of different sports to find out what they enjoy and are good at prior to secondary transfer. DS is now 17 and wishes he'd kept going with more of his activities. I'd be reluctant to stop. How many are we talking about ?

Also grit is important, DCs need to learn to stick at things, so saying "do you want to go to football training?" on a wet November Thursday isn't very useful. As PP said it's part of life.

@paralysedbyinertia

Yeah, I can see that it's difficult to know exactly where/who the push is coming from. I can only suggest that you and/or your DH try to have some general chats with them around their activities to get an idea of what they actually feel. Which ones do they like best, what do they enjoy about them, are there any aspects that they don't like etc. If it's just general conversation, rather than a choice about whether they want to do x or y this weekend, hopefully you'll be able to get a better idea of what these activities actually mean for the children.

thank you - I will try to encourage OH to do this with them in a neutral way.

It’s hard to strike a balance isn’t it. As if dad says “oh wouldn’t you rather come on holiday with me than do x again” of course they would say yes.
I think as other posters have said, it’s about how important these are to the children but also if it would have a knock on effect eg are they competing at regional/county level.
For example, my daughter is in the gymnastics squad and competes for our county. From the age of 4 she’s attended 2 nights per week. Some may find this excessive but DD loves it and is good at it, and that level of commitment is required for the level she is at.
She also has performing arts on Saturday mornings 9.30-12.30 and she rides on Monday evenings. None of these I would be happy for her to miss on a regular basis, but she obviously misses them for holidays or birthday teas etc pre covid.

Are the children particularly talented? Are they potentially going to play for county or England or get a music scholarship or attend the Brit School?

I think even the most committed families take the odd weekend off - to attend weddings or have a birthday party or something else. So the odd weekend shouldn’t be a problem. However, if it’s really important to the child and/or there is talent and they want to be picked for a team, for example, they can’t miss every other weekend.

Very difficult to navigate.

@KylieKoKo

I think it's too much when it's taking a toll on the child. Normal family life isn't tonnes of quality time together, its teenagers doing activities and being ferried to their friends houses. I used to do weekly activities as a child and would not have wanted to miss these or miss socialising on a regular basis.

Most of my activities were term time only which left time for holidays and I was happy to miss for special events like family parties. Is this not the same for you DSC?

Thanks Kylie - I agree with you - when they get to being teenagers I expect they will come and go as they please. But they are currently 8 and 10. At the moment things are tricky and I'm not sure they actually get a choice in the decision or are even consulted about whether they are happy to miss something or not - As it stands Mum has stated that she WILL withhold them unless Dad does what she says (and she has done this). Some activities are term-time only - other like competitions or birthday parties are right through the year

Are the children particularly talented? Are they potentially going to play for county or England or get a music scholarship or attend the Brit School?

I think this is irrelevant. A life long love of sport for fun is a precious gift. An understanding of commitmant, teamwork and obligation similarly. Yes the odd wedding or funeral absolutely but not to sack off training just to hang out or go to the cinema.

and they should be able to attend Birthday Parties if they are invited. What is it you and their Dad want to do with rhem instead ?

I think there's a balance to be had and the child's mum certainly shouldn't be dictating what happens on your weekends!

However, I'd try and do a bit of a mix. My ex never (and I mean never) allowed DS to attend anything on his weekend as it was his time to spend with DS. Fair enough, but as DS has now got to the age that he was more say over when he sees his Dad, he now doesn't really bother - he almost prioritises all of the things he was stopped from doing over his Dad.

I certainly would never have dreamt of telling ex what to do, but I did try and gently convince him to accept that DS wants to be able to do things that all other children do - but it's a balancing act isn't it? I think the problem with my Ex was that he couldn't see the importance of DS's beloved sports etc. A real shame as DS would have been so chuffed to have his Dad watch a match . The odd thing was that DS's stepdad loves taking DS to his sports etc, I think if I was my Ex I'd be making sure I got a look in too!

So yeah, I certainly wouldn't tolerate a timetable being given to me!! But I'd err on the side of doing what you can, whilst also enjoying other things with them.

I think if OH does speak with them, it’s important to communicate that with their mum too. You don’t want them discussing one thing with them and their mum discussing a different message with them.

I think their mum is out of order here, they shouldn't be doing so much that their time with their dad is controlled by it.

My SS does football, he does training during the week but he misses matches on his weekends with DP (we live far apart) - the coach knows and it's totally fine. Lots of kids must be in the same situation. The odd occasion when it's an important game, DP will go up and stay so SS can attend.

Is it possible for your DP to speak directly to the instructor of the activities that impact the most on his time and see how the ground lies for them missing every other weekend (or whatever it would be)?