Debts and decisions

[ihavenowords30]

I need advice as we have a odd situation that's came up over the weekend. I'll try and keep it short but happy to give more info if needed.. I have 3 teen SC, the eldest is not my partners biological child but he has pretty much raised him also.

For the past two years wet partner and I have been frustrated as the kids birthdays have pretty much gone without any real effort on mums part. It's all been left to us, and the 3 of them are being told they need to save up money for things they want (I'm totally on board with) but recently this has included new trainers, a double bed and clothes and even haircuts. Things we do consider basics that they really shouldn't be saving up for.. using pocket money / Christmas money ( to add these aren't big designer things just average brands etc)

It came to a head last Friday when the ex texted my partner telling him that SS 15 has £40 cash and wanted it in his bank so could he transfer it to him and we would get the cash on Saturday, he said no problem then we found out he has used the money to get his hair cut and buy his toiletries ( lynx, hair gel etc)

My partner did send a shitty message to her saying it was a joke and why is he buying these things himself and she came back equally shitty saying if he's that bothered give him the money back which I said my partner deserved and he did Transfer the money back to SS.

This has led to a call Saturday where the EX has basically said she's having to pay a lot of debt off and is struggling for money. She openly admitted as the debt was before she met her new husband he's refusing to really help with it so she's having to use the CSA Money to keep the wolves from the door so that's why the kids are perhaps being more self sufficient l, she's upped there pocket money but told them they are now responsible for things such as I've mentioned.

To be honest she had balls coming clean like that so I did gain some respect for her however it's now been left and we really have no idea where to go from here... I would just like opinions on what others would do from here? Ignore it? help more and in what ways?

I'll add the kids are all happy there's no real issue with them it's just left us abit unsure how to proceed with things as she stayed her case and just said so there now you know and I can't change it, I am trying my best so stop giving me shit.

I have already bought loads of sanitary and toiletries for all 3 to take him and keep in there rooms.

For info Partners CSA changes a lot with work but since Christmas it's been 315 for 2 kids ( eldest dad pays through CSA but it's like 7 a week)

We cannot afford to massively up this cost nor do we want to so looking at other options.

Ex states her debt was 11-15k

I think the only thing you can do is provide the necessities for them and treat them to things like haircuts and special treats and then maybe offer to go halves on more expensive items like trainers or clothes.

It’s unfortunate and irresponsible that the ex is now in a situation where she’s had to tighten her belt massively because of debt but there is nothing you or she can really do about that.
It is what it is, she is focused on clearing the debt and it’ll be a lot worse if the bailiffs turn up wanting to seize goods etc.

As long as the kids are warm and fed and have the necessities then as much as I feel sorry for them - they aren’t any different to a lot of kids who live in low income families.

Help them out as much as you can and steer them to being financially savvy - don’t waste money, save up for their special purchases etc.

I don’t think you should up the maintenance if you can’t afford it and also if it’s only going to go to service debt - but you should where possible ensure the kids have clothes, toiletries, school stuff etc

If the money is going towards debt where are the kids getting the money to pay for all these things themselves?

Yeah it's not ideal but I agree with you OP, respect that she has come clean and as PP said there's not much you or she can do about it now. I agree to just help keep their standard needs met. You sound decent and you haven't mentioned any other problems so it sounds like it's all working fairly well otherwise. This is no small accomplishment so I'd say focus on that and keep things friendly as much as possible.

@ohpulltheotherone makes some very good points.
You can help provide the stuff they need but do it cheaply. So find shoes on sale. Clothes get from charity shops or online bundles ( both my DDS and DS are dressed in second hand bundles and wear clothes from next, gap, h and m, Hollister along side supermarket stuff) so you can get really nice stuff for a fraction of the price.
Toiletries I buy when there on sale so if I'm in the supermarket and see them half price I throw a few in.
In terms of hair cuts I never had a professional haircut as a teenager even now my mum cuts it ( or I did this time due to covid). You dont say their sexes but DP uses a clippers on DSS (9) so there are some options. Or if you can afford it take the kids to get their hair done on your weekends.

I’m not sure you can do much; you can’t tell her how to use the CSA and I feel sad for the kids but if they’re happy then I’d tread carefully. If you can then continue doing what you’ve done with putting toiletries in their room and doing what you can.

She's broke and she's doing her best. What do you want her to do?

It’s unfortunate and irresponsible that the ex is now in a situation where she’s had to tighten her belt massively because of debt

Irresponsible? It doesn't take much to accummulate debt as a single parent (which the OP suggests she was when she ran up the debt).

I also demand that my children pay for some items beyond basics - so if I'm prepared to pay £30 for a pair of trainers, if they want something more expensive, they fund it themselves. Ditto things like deorderant, shower gel, shampoo etc where supermarket own brand are good enough for me so they are good enough for my teenagers. Haircuts I would pay for but only at a barber's/salon I can afford. Again, if they want some fancy, they'll have to find the money themselves.

Easy to judge. That said, I don't think any more maintenance should be paid.

If she's upped their pocket money to help them pay for things then I don't see the issue personally. Unless they are going without basics.
Actually if anything it will help them learn to manage a budget. I had a few friends growing up who's parents didn't buy them 'things'. Other than the basics, school uniform and some clothes, obviously they fed them! But they did get large allowances that they could spend how they wished. So one friend used some of hers to pay for her ballet lessons. Her brother paid for music classes.
Whereas my mum paid for my dance lessons directly. My friends are all better at budgeting than me!

It isn't your partner's job to question or even engage with his ex over how she spends her money so both of you need to stay out of it. (This is also the same reason why her husband is not engaging with the debt as it is nothing to do with him.)

Your partner also needs to realise he can't tell his ex how to spend the CSA he gives as it needs to cover rent/mortgage, household bills and food for his two children before covering other things like clothes.

And no he shouldn't up the maintenance if he can't afford it.

He, particularly but also you, can be of more help by teaching all the children about budgeting and finance. ( Moneysavingexpert has had some leaflets and information on teaching kids financial information. I spent time showing and teaching some of my nephews this stuff from around 14.)

He can also give them money directly for things like haircuts, non-uniform clothes and toilettes and show them the cheapest but best places to get them.

Also one important thing is that if he gives them money for a haircut and the teen decides (or is made by their mother) to spend it on something else then he shouldn't give them any money for another haircut until such time they are next due one.

Thanks all, just to clear a few bits up we aren't judging her as such for the debt as we have all been there but my partner is frustrated that all his money his paying off debts that are nothing to do with him as that's money he feels should be spent on the kids or bills.
However I've said it's not our business really as she hasn't exactly asked us to step up more but just have us the straight story.

We don't have a good relationship with her really haven't for the 7 years it's basically non existent now as the kids are all mid teens.

She explained she has upped the kids pocket at their house from £10 each a month to £20 ( they get £20 each from us too) and this was to make sure they can buy their own day to day items which I'm not massively against for some things.

She's already said any school trips are a no unless we pay and birthdays and Christmas will be £50 each nothing more.

We will be making sure they have basics on terms of clothing etc but other things will be more difficult.

Luckily 2 out of 3 of the kids are great with money the other not so much.

She says the debt was ran up in the 18 months she was only before meeting her husband which seems a bit high but again not very our business.

My partner wants to talk again because he doesn't want the full 317 going on her debt as he think that's unfair as she's im a new marriage and has 2 further children so they have decided she will no longer be working at all which isn't helping the debt...I see both sides really and I've said he hasn't for that long to be paying directly anyway so better to not rock the boat maybe.

Bigger things like trips/ driving lessons / larger gifts will have to handled as and when they come up I guess...

I think I struggle as I was an only child and although I wasn't a brat I was spoiled and always had the best to keep my with friends etc and I'll know I'll do the same from our bio son 3 but it's impossible to keep all three teens to that standard alone if mums situation as it is

My partner wants to talk again because he doesn't want the full 317 going on her debt as he think that's unfair as she's im a new marriage and has 2 further children so they have decided she will no longer be working at all which isn't helping the debt...I see both sides really and I've said he hasn't for that long to be paying directly anyway so better to not rock the boat maybe.

Tell your partner not to do this.

He has absolutely no say on what the money he gives as CSA goes on.

If he's really unhappy about her treatment of his two kids then he needs to convince his kids to move in with you all. He won't get any money from his ex but then he won't be liable for CSA.

Oh they would never be allowed to move in and or be fair that wouldn't work for us either location wise, In no way is he being aggressive to her but I agree he should pursue contact as right now the kids seem fine.

Unless we hear somethings drastic like they are Buying there own food etc which I doubt will happen!

The eldest has to give his mum petrol money for her driving him to part time work which we disagree with her rules I guess.

So they get £40 a month that is a fair bit even for a teen.
Paying to get to the part time job is mum's decision and does kind of make sense. I hope she's charging a sensible amount though.

I don't think your OH can insist on how the maintenance is spent. That's up to the ex.

If she is struggling to afford school trips can the school help? Are the eligible for free school dinners?

@YellowTwinklyStar no they don't qualify this is the odd part as her husband is a decent earner we are estimating 45-50k but he has clear lines on what he will and won't pay for, what he deems her responsibilities such as the debt and some bits to do with the kids as it's up to the dad and mum (I agree also) but as I said they choose to have two further young children stopping her from working and able to earn her own money so we are about frustrated he's taking this viewpoint because it seems a shit marriage (again just our opinion)

Ah that does complicate things and seems very unfair if his income is preventing her accessing benefits. But yes nothing you can do about that.

I just hope his ex isn't with a financially abusive partner, she seems to be completely trapped. Her DH doesn't want her working? What about him stumping up for childcare for his DC and doing have the "wifework" in their home.

There is nothing you can do her hand is forced.

The eldest has to give his mum petrol money for her driving him to part time work which we disagree with her rules I guess

What is the difference between that and paying bus fare? Surely he can cycle or walk if he doesn't want to pay it?

He works for an a agency so is different places all the time but yes I know this is probably just me again because I wouldn't of been made to pay so I see it as odd.

As for the financially abuse husband...to be honest I'm going off on a tangent but yes possible, I know we don't like much what we hear about him from the ex and kids but we have always stayed out.

He's good to the kids don't get me wrong but does occasionally go on 'get your mum or dad to pay for you rant' which is totally unfair on them.

They ordered a takeaway and when it arrived he asked the 3 if they had money to pay for what they asked for... youngest two said no the eldest said he would pay for all there meals but at the last minute he said oh I suppose I'll buy it all.

I think he's got a weird sense of humour which goes down like a lead balloon but he has also bought them big treats on occasions so it's hard to fully judge.

He sounds vile tbh

It doesn't sound like they are old enough teens to be paying their way. I guess your husband will just have to keep doing what he can to provide the basics and hope his ex sees sense and leaves her husband. Why on earth did he marry her if he couldn't handle her level of debt!

Though the double bed I can understand them being reluctant to pay for if they have perfectly good single beds.

And £50 each for Christmas is a decent amount

No not at all old enough 14.15 & 17 really decent kids too by most standards apart from the odd lazy moments.

Spoke to my partner and he's just going to see how the next few weeks go and if anything arises he'll ask for a chat on maybe the kids staying here more 50/50 maybe week on week off but I guess she's not going to want that, not solely for money reasons but a weeks long without your kids on a regular basis

That's a good idea. And nice that he is thinking of all 3 of them even though he only has financial responsibility for 2.