Advice please...

[Lucie1985]

Hi all!

Looking for some advice if poss. I’ve been dating a single dad for 9 months. He has a daughter who is 8. We are both early 30s and I’ve no children of my own. I’m struggling terribly with the dynamics of this situation and not sure if I have a right to feel like this or not. So far, in general everything is great. We speak openly about the future and our plans and we are happy . The fact he has a child doesn’t bother me in the slightest and I’ve accepted she will always be the priority.

My issue lies in the level of what I feel is intrusion from his child’s mum. Whilst I accept she’ll always be around and he will have to talk to her fairly regularly, she phones and texts at all hours of the day and night. From what I know (dp doesn’t always go into detail about reasons for the calls) but they are almost always trivial. Emergencies I fully understand but texts at 9pm for example can be about how he hasn’t cleaned her lunchbox properly. He regularly has to drop everything to take his daughter last minute...the mum is ill, she has a dentist appointment, the child is upset and doesn’t want to go to school etc. One night she rung him at 9pm to drop off something which wasn’t essential round to the house and he got up halfway through dinner with me to do it. Again I know fully you have to be flexible to an extent but it’s usually last minute and unpredictable.

They were never married and split when the child was young so there’s been no messy divorce and I had nothing to do with the split.

They live in the same area and I appreciate their arrangement has worked when he’s been single (as is she) however am I wrong to feel there should be some boundaries when you are in a relationship? I don’t mean being less of a dad or being less involved...more drawing the line and sometimes (I’ll prepare for backlash here) not dropping everything for the child.

Often when she misbehaves she will call my partner and ask him to go round to deal with her. He’s WFH and quite often is in meetings.

I feel we haven’t been together overly long and I’m cautious of being seen to come in and rock the boat however do I have the right to have concerns as to how the future may look for us? I’ve spoken to him and he feels I’m overreacting to an extent. He says things will naturally ‘calm down’ but it’s hard to picture that when all I see is her calling the shots. He often says I don’t want you thinking she controls me...yet all I see is evidence of that. He’s a fantastic dad and I am lucky to have him but where do I go from here? Sometimes she texts at 7am before either of us are even out of bed!!

Honestly... run.
This weird unhealthy dynamic will not change and you’re setting yourself up for a lifetime of misery.

His behaviour is not normal but unfortunately not unusual for a separated dad with zero boundaries between him and his ex.

You’re young enough to meet someone else without all the drama and constantly being 2nd to the demands of an ex and a child that isn’t yours.

I think you might need to call it a day. You've raised your concerns with him and he doesn't appear to accept your side/is happy with how things are. They will not change and you have to decide if you can deal with it the way it is or if it will just wear you down. It is your choice to make and you need to put yourself first - there's no right or wrong here.

It sounds like a very ingrained dynamic that they have been used to for a long time. If it's annoying you just at the dating stage can you imagine how it would feel if you lived with him?

I don’t think 7am or 9pm texts are early or late tbh, I’m often up by 5am and so is ExDP, he also has a habit of staying up till 3am at weekends when he’s off work and our DC are here, so we message each other and some very strange hours sometimes, however my phone goes on silent at 7pm when DC are with me, and doesn’t go on silent at all when they aren’t, in case of an emergency. We are a more or less 50/50 split.

Having said that, if I demanded something be bought round at 9pm and he were in the middle of dinner, either alone or with someone, he would, quite rightly, tell me to fuck off As I would him.

Re Mum being ill, dentist appointments etc, that’s just normal (or should be), he isn’t only a parent when his DC is with him.

Point out to him that his mother's child contact is having a detrimental effect on his work, and he should set boundaries on her contact so he can get his work done. The reason to state it this way is then he can't accuse you of being jealous of his child and/or contact with the child's mother.

If he starts an argument with you over it, sulks over your request, or by 3 weeks has not put those steps in place, then immediately dump him and move on.

This is because he won't put boundaries in place with his mother's child until it's too late, and it will cause you loads of issues going forward.

Btw in the 3 week time limit is for you not for him, and shouldn't be mentioned to him. The time limit is actually to give you time to sort yourself out. So if you need less time e.g. a week then give yourself that time limit.

OP, your partner has been single for several years, you are probably far from the first person with whom he has been involved since he separated from the child's mothers. What you are witnessing is his probably their long standing pattern. Had it bothered your partner, he would probably have changed it by now.

If you find it troubling, you have to decide if it is something with which you are willing to live. Apparently, you have stated your concerns and he has given you a response. He does not feel controlled and he has settled into a comfort zone with their level of contact. Only you can determine your comfort zone.

I don’t think the mother is being unreasonable here. She’s having to bring up a child as a single mother, she’s relying on your partner for support which she should be able to do. It sounds like any texts/phone calls are to do with the child which should be fine. Saying that, I do think him leaving in the middle of dinner was rude on his part, I probably would have said ‘can’t it wait until we’ve finished’.

Thank you everyone for your comments I am reading through them all and taking them onboard.

Interesting one @Grandslam21 I see it differently. Yes they are both parents and have to co-parent. But they are separated. Therefore where does the level of relying on each other start/finish. Surely on the days she’s at his it’s up to her as the mother to deal with the tantrums/issues/behaviour and likewise when she’s at his he then deals with it? Genuinely asking for your thoughts. Is it acceptable for him to be dropping everything? (Out with emergencies obviously) Otherwise, why wouldn’t they just stay together until the kid was 18?

I agree with alot of the sentiment addressed already. For your own future sanity there has to be boundaries established otherwise the situation will get worse. I experienced an albeit brief period of silliness with the ex wanting to know all about the goings on in our house and overstaring her life to my partner at silly hours calling over and over. Quite frankly I was very firm that this isn't going to be my life. Thankfully my partner was equally annoyed at it and agreed to have that conversation and make things clear when to contact and what to Contact about. Now the ex has her own relationship im sure she's happy these boundaries are established. Have an open and honest conversation op and ask if the tables were turned would he be okay with this state of affairs?

He says things will naturally ‘calm down’

What does his mean? I'm assuming this is how things have always been between them, so does he mean he will slowly make changes, or does he mean you'll just get used to it?

OP Userwomen1990 has put it succinctly and I've sent you a PM.

@excelledyourself I think he means both. I think he thinks I’ll get used to the change of dating a guy with a child and she’ll get used to him having a girlfriend. It’s worth noting I’m the first ‘serious’ partner he’s had. And she’s never dated since him that he’s aware of. They were only together briefly and separated 7 years ago

To paraphrase an MN classic - “he knew he had a child when he chose to get into a relationship” so no, it is not acceptable for him to be be jumping to attention every time his ex clicks her fingers.

If he wants to stay on her leash that’s up to him, he has no right to mess anyone else around at the the same time.
My DHs ex went through a phase like this when she first found out about me (we had been dating for about 9 months at this point, she didn’t know as we had no intention of adding DSD to the mix so it was none of her business) and it was very much a case of her shoring up her very important position as Mother of His Child. If we were dogs she would have pissed on the lampost outside his house. It’s the same thing. Luckily my DH refused to pander to it.
Maybe the ex will chill out in time, maybe this is the entrenched dynamic between them. My guess is the latter if this man really thinks this is normal/healthy/acceptable levels of “co parenting”.
If he’s thinks you’re unreasonable now, wait till you have a baby and are looking for him to step up but he won’t because his ex needs him to go wipe his kids nose or something.

My DP was very much like this- if DSS didn't want to go to school DP would get a phone call to go round and deal with it; his Ex would call whenever she felt like it about any issue (even none DSS related issues) and DP would take the call; she'd call DP at short notice asking him to have DSS for the night because she hada headache (ignoring the fact she had 2 younger kids and a partner living with her). It only stopped when DSS moved in with DP full time.
If your DP is happy with the dynamic he has with his ex it will never change so you then need to decide whether you can accept it or you need to move on.

I guess the thing is it’s not up to her to change the dynamic, it’s up to him. If this is how they have always been, it’s up to him to set new boundaries if it’s not working for you and him in a serious relationship. She’s not doing anything wrong - except for continuing how things have been. FYI messaging my kids dad at 7am is not a big deal, it’s not like I get to switch off being a parent, it’s not like it’s 3am in the morning. Also 9pm is probably when the kid has finally gone to bed and she messages people, that’s when I catch up with everything and everyone. It’s only going to “calm down” if he addresses what you are unhappy about.

His reaction when you raised this doesn’t sound very encouraging at all, I’m afraid.

I would raise it again calmly and explain that the lack of boundaries is something that is prompting you to reconsider your relationship. Give the examples of the frequency and timing of texts and non-urgent demands. Ask him if he is prepared to put some boundaries in place and stick to them. I like @RedMarauder’s suggestion of a ‘deadline’ although would just have it in your mind rather than tell him.

He might be happy being at the beck and call of his ex, or he may just not have realised that he doesn’t have to live this way. You need to know which it is.

I agree with p that this has been the norm since they split. Whether it's healthy or acceptable to you is a separate issue.

You have every right to feel as you do and if you don't like what you see, the best thing to end the relationship.

One night she rung him at 9pm to drop off something which wasn’t essential round to the house

I'm not sure why you went with him half way through dinner. I'd have left him to go alone.

Why didn't he say he'll bring it over the following day? He's the one jumping to her every demand and if things suddenly change between them because you've come on the scene...you'll be labelled as the bad guy by the Ex, which will be the beginning of years of conflict.

He might be happy being at the beck and call of his ex, or he may just not have realised that he doesn’t have to live this way.

Exactly.

I think he thinks I’ll get used to the change of dating a guy with a child

You don't have to get used to it. The courtship is the time to assess if the relationship is working for you...just like a probationary period on a new job.

Right now there's nothing tying you to him. No kids, no house or joint assets.

The excessive calls and texts would annoy me, but I wouldn't be agonising about talking to him about it...I'd just leave him and his Ex to it. A relationship shouldn't be such a headache.

I don't think this relationship is for you op shes not going anywhere they share a child op. It doesn't matter if she texts at 7 or 9 it shouldn't have any bearing on your relationship it comes across like you're abit insecure. Ex has texted me before at 10.45 and vice versa its not being an issue with either of our partners why would it. If I need to ring him about challenging behaviour ds is 12 I will and vice versa. We co- parenting that involves communicating with each other so ds knows we are team thats why our co-parenting is successful and there's zero issues because we communicate. I rung him before and updated him on a dentist appointment why wouldn't I?

It seems to me that if a reasonably intelligent adult does not feel as though they are being controlled , why does someone else feel obligated to insist that the person is being controlled?

It seems fairly controlling to want a partner to adopt your view that they are being controlled. Sometimes , people just fall into routines that work for them and they manage with little to no acrimony until a 3rd party comes along to upset the existing apple cart.

It would seem infinitely easier just to find a partner who has not yet hitched his or her wagon to prior baggage.

They haven't set clear boundaries. It was fine when the dynamics were between themselves, but now other people are involved it's not going to work. And believe me I walked into a similar situation to you, luckily for me my partner wanted change. But wow that change was absolutely hellish. It took two years of a lot of challenges before we got to a place where it was easy. Now there are still lots of challenges.

I really think you need to reconsider this relationship. Unless you are both on the same page it's not going to end well.

@Teardrop2021 I agree with you that if the calls are about important things and emergencies yes I’d expect her to call. You mention you talk to your partner about your child’s behaviour which I know is a normal part of co-parenting but would you ask your ex to come round and deal with it there and then? I’m sure as a mother you’d just tell with it yourself and tell your ex afterwards at somepoint either on the phone or when you next see him.

@Tiredoftattler I can assure you I’m anything but controlling. I love my partner and I feel bad that his life is like this. As you say, he doesn’t feel like he’s being controlled and that’s his opinion but often when we are emotionally involved we don’t see things as clearly as what someone from the outside does. If he doesn’t want to change then again that’s on him but I wouldn’t be a half decent partner if I wasn’t able to share my concerns for him and explain how it’s making me feel. I think I’m entitled to be able to communicate an opinion to someone very close to me without being labelled controlling

I don't think his boundaries are compatible with your boundaries. I'd move on as its only been 9 months.

The biggest piece of advice I always give to new/potential step parents is that you need boundaries with the ex which it doesn’t sound like there is with your partner. My DH had fought that battle before we got together but we still have to push back at times.
The biggest issue is that your DP is ok with how things are and if he doesn’t want to change it then it won’t change.

@Lucie1985 ime things won't "naturally calm down". That's your dp living in Polly Pocket Land & not wanting to take on board that for him to be in a successful relationship his 'relationship' with his ex will have to change. So - he's hoping that if he ignores everything all will be fine. It won't.
Many on here (myself included) have had the experience of an ex's behaviour actually getting worse as our relationships got more serious & I would predict that will happen here too.
As others have said their dynamic is pretty established & she is used to having her own way with your dp - as in she says "jump" & he says "how high"? She will fight to keep this dynamic going using their child as the hook to reel him in.
The only one who can break this dynamic is him & it sounds like he's not particularly bothered to do so.
You can accept this or fight it. If you accept it you'll be miserable as the ex will dominate every aspect of your life, but if you fight it you will ALWAYS be the bad guy.
I have 3 dc of my own who have a sm, & I was with a man who also had 3 dc for over 5 years so I see things from all viewpoints/angles & trust me, unless your dp actively sees that HE needs to change his dynamic with his ex you're on a hiding to nothing.
Fwiw you seem to have a really good handle on everything & you are, imo, absolutely right in how you feel about things.