Sibling Bullying

[Wabbabalooba]

I wrote out a massive story about our situation and pressed post it it's disappeared without posting...

So I'm going to ask a short question, and I'll fill in any background as / when needed instead if that's okay? (Not dripfeeding, but there is a massive backstory)

Long story short, my partner and I are breaking up. We have 2 kids together (5 and 3) and he has an older daughter from a previous relationship (who is now 10) Our kids love their older sister and seeing her, but sadly it is not reciprocated. I would go as far as saying she actually bullies them when she's here - to the point that we have to usually keep them apart on the weekends she's with us (for eg. I'd take them out the Saturday, and he'll take her out the Sunday) so they see each other a couple hours in the morning and a couple hours at night. Any longer it descends in to chaos, and sometimes she gets physically violent with them. She has no underlying issues.

Now there is a backstory, and I don't really blame "SD" for not having a relationship with my kids - her high conflict mother has made it very difficult, and a now ex-partner who sits on things too long before trying to instill boundaries is the reason why. And to be honest the whole thing is about 80% of the reason why were breaking up. I'm tired of me and my kids being treated like crap / having to either leave our home or walk on eggshells every second weekend.

Has anybody had to deal with anything similar? They want to see her, but honestly I don't think she'd give a toss either way if she never saw them again. She doesn't like them, and there isn't really a relationship to salvage even though she's known them since birth. She says openly he doesn't like them or love them (a phrase my 3 year old is now copying when I correct him for something these days) But I don't want to say he can't have our joint kids when he has her either because I know how that plays out... usually with one of my kids in tears because they've been shouted at in the face or slapped in the face.

Any advice welcome! I have no idea what to do. His plan seems to be see our kids on the alternate weekends he has her which is a shit show waiting to happen!

Didn't want to read and run, not sure what to suggest I'm sure others who have had similar experiences will be along. What does you DP do when these incidents happen?

You my well find when she feels she has equal amounts of her Dads attention and they are in the same position as her - then her behaviour is different.

My 2 DCs struggle with the fact their DF saw their step sibs and then half sib more than they did. They did not misbehave but a lot of tears everytime they came home - as tales related on what they had done when they were not there.

Not agreeing her behaviour is acceptable but she sounds very jealous. Her Dad left when she was 3ish - they have and have ahd what she really did not get.

Totally understand why you’re leaving. It’s ridiculous for him to sit on the fence when two really young children are being made miserable by a 10 yo. It’s also ridiculous for him not to address underlying issues with his DD.

My main concern once you have separated is how much he will police her bullying when he has contact time with all three of them at once.

I wish I could offer some constructive suggestions but other than staying on top of it and reiterating your expectations to him, there won’t be much you can do, unless he agrees to have them on separate weekends, which is probably unlikely. How much is your 5 yo able to tell you about anything that may happen?

Thank you for the replies... when they happen he will correct her / chat with her about whats wrong / take her out. But it just goes straight back - nothing ever changes.

I'm not saying all of it isn't justified, I know they annoy her sometimes for which we will say and make them apologise if they are doing something perceived as annoying to her. The thing is, annoying to her is just their presence.

He's always been denied more contact. He isn't even allowed overnights because she doesn't have her own bedroom here. So he gets her every second Saturday takes her home, then picks her up again the Sunday and takes her home. Her mum will not agree to a single second more (not even at Christmas or birthdays or school holidays) He sees her the 24 days a year and that's it, even though she's half an hour away. Over the past 4 years they've been to mediation and he is currently going through court to get overnights / more access but it's all been delayed due to Covid. She lived with him until him and her mum separated so she went from having him around all the time to this. I can understand where her issues come from 100%. But she takes it out on the younger kids, and spends most of her time around them grunting, or screaming at them, calling them stupid, breaking their toys... etc...slapping them "for looking at her"

The contact is changed a lot, and withheld regularly for minor reasons so those 24 days a year are maximum. More like 18 in reality, although she once stopped contact for 6 months because he suggested SD may have some problems with anxiety to her mum. The takeaway being if he brings anything up to her she withholds contact.

We always said she would be better seeing him more because she wouldn't be fighting for attention when she is here. That's why we initially started the plan of separating them because it means she gets one on one. But he works the weekends he doesn't have SD, so it's now at the stage he has no weekend time with our kids because we're always having to avoid each other.

He's suggested counselling / play therapy. But mum won't have any of it. She says she's a completely perfect well balanced child at hers (and to be honest she does well at school etc) I think the mum doesn't actually believe what he says. Her answer is "siblings fight" but IMO not to that extent and certainly when they only see each other that infrequently!

Sorry I just seen the other replies on the post! Thanks!

To answer some questions, it worries me that as well as her fighting for his time, they also will be! So it might make it worse instead of better. They don't really mind not seeing him weekends right now because they see him all the time, but if they're also only seeing him every other weekend then I worry they'll all be fighting for him

They wouldn't be able to see him separate weekends because he works. And he also works through the weeks where his days off change every week so I don't have a clue how to work any potential schedule.

The 5 year old is able to verbalise when something is wrong, so I know he would tell me...for example when she says something they now have the confidence to say "I don't like what you're saying to me" but they eally get upset by it and often cry later about being called stupid.

The little one has started copying the behaviour which is just as bad. Walking about grunting and eye rolling and slams doors etc when given in to trouble now, and screaming "I don't like you or love you" when someone says something to him.

Sorry I know the updates are long, I'm trying my best to get everything relevant down (and like I say I had already written it all and it didn't post!) Honestly not drip feeding!

This is not a criticism of you but your DP should have gone to court before she got to the age of 10.

Her problems are of her parents making and 14 days per year is simply crap. No way to reassure her, build confidence in her trust etc. I get on 24 days per annum she does not get a room but somewhere to make her feel welcome and part of the family may have helped her behaviour

She has been let down badly by her parents in her life

@bogoffmda I agree to be honest. And I've probably played a part myself. She was allowed to stay with us before I had our first and for a couple months after (her mum stopped contact for a month because we couldn't take her the weekend I was in hospital having the baby) but only as and when she needed "babysat" basis...and the difference in house prices gave me no reason to think she needed as room. Then as soon as we moved it was used as a reason to stop contact.

We have a 2 bedroom and our kids share. But it's a big 2 bedroom. We have a couch bed and our 2 kids usually top and tail the same bed by choice... The one time she did stay, me and ex-P took the couch bed and let her have our bed (changed it to kids sheets and duvet etc - she loved it) but I know not having a space hasn't helped.

Agree with other posters that these issues are of her parents making & she has been badly let down. What you describe sounds like incandescent jealousy which has got very out of control. Given her age (going into the realms of puberty) emotions are only going to get more intense.. I don't in any way condone the violent / unkind behavior but know from experience no child acts that way without reason.. it's symptomatic of the fact she's in a situation which probably feels incredibly unfair in her eyes and has understandably bred resentment. Sadly, she is projecting this on the younger children who she sees infrequently so probably has a had little opportunity to bond with.

Going forwards seems best for him to have the children separately, at least for now. I suspect her behavior will improve if she gets more time with Dad.

I am curious though, what does she want in terms of contact both with Dad & siblings? At 10 they tend to have an opinion..

She's always wanted to spend more time with him... she verbalises it constantly but her mum just won't hear it. She's told him, she's told her, he's told the mum - the answer is always point blank no.

She's spoken to a counsellor friend of hers apparently who said it was jealously, but when he asked what they do about it her answer was nothing. And because he raised it with her at all the contact stopped completely for weeks again.

It has taken ages to get to court stage, but it has taken ages for a reason. He went down the mediation route, it was better for a while, then something happens, the contact gets stopped, they go back to mediation, a few things happen but not enough to go to court over, then the contact gets stopped... his original lawyer was obviously reluctant for it to go to court because he kept referring back to mediation... he's now got a new lawyer, and now it's Covid. It's been a cycle which has been dragged out by her playing ball for a few months intermittently.

The whole thing is a mess.

The main problem is that he will be seeing her every second weekend which is when he is off work, leaving no free time to see our kids if he has them separate.

I don't think having one on one with him would necessarily make it better anyway, because she gets lots of that as it is. The weekends she's here now she has him to herself bar 2 hours a day.

And my kids just idolise her in spite of it all 😞

I can't believe she slaps them and shouts at them
I don't think that's normal sibling behaviour at all for a 10 year old on such young children of 5 and 3 and is really concerning.
Your partner sounds like a total drip letting that happen and obviously his exs behaviour is no better.

Personally I would try and tell him about them having different contact times if you are splitting up, your kids will be having to get used to a split themselves they don't need any time they do spend with their Dad made hell by his daughter.
Regardless of who's messed his child up it's not fair it effecting your own kids and I wouldn't let that happen personally.

"your kids will be having to get used to a split themselves they don't need any time they do spend with their Dad made hell by his daughter."

It's this part I think that's really concerning me, but I've not been able to really verbalise to be honest, so thanks!

And yes, I agree. I just feel like I'm stopping them having a relationship with their sister who they really want to see... but also feel that neither they nor her benefit from it...

But don't want to be accused further down the line of preventing it.

Agree that a 10yo slapping the faces and shouting in the faces of a 5yo and 3yo has serious problems that need addressing. I’d actually missed this part at the end of your first post. There must be zero tolerance for this. You DH needs to get get help for her and reset and enforce boundaries and consequences.

Until he’s done this, he needs to keep her away from them. If he can’t see them one weekend and her another then I’d have no hesitation in keeping them away. The onus is on him to resolve this.

You are just looking out for your children you have nothing to feel bad about, the only people who are preventing them from having a relationship with DSD is your DH and the child's mother where her behaviour has got so bad and no one has sought to fix it.
It will get even worse as the years go by with nothing being done about it.

If she can barely be around them now on his contact time without being abusive what makes him think that having even more time all together is a good idea?
It's a terrible idea especially considering how vulnerable they are being so young.

My kids love her: despite what she does to them. The oldest can work out days now (not so much since nursery hasn't been in) but he'll now ask if it's Saturday and if she's coming, and when I say no they're disappointed. I don't know if long term they'd gradually just forget her and see her more like a cousin they see sometimes?

This kid is apparently angelic with her mum. I'm sure her last report card from school while describing her as bossy and opinionated also said she was kind. She seems okay in general til she's around them.

Also, she used to hang all over me. Loved me. Till last year when her mum blocked contact over not having a room of her own. Now when she comes she won't even look at me. She grunts at me. So they ask why she's not being nice to me, and that alone causes problems. She just wants him and only him, which I've started to work around because it's easier.

Sorry OP, no amount of apparent devotion would lead me to put my tiny children in the path of someone who slaps and shouts at them without consequence.

I agree with MeridianB, you need to protect your young children, regardless of how DSD used to be this is the way she is now.
Her Mum will see the side of her one day as she gets older and gets more and more out of control.
I would be horrified if my kids were hurting little children it's madness that it isn't both your DH and his exs wake up call to sort their daughters behaviour out.

I know this deep down. I suppose I'm just worried about the mental impact of "losing" their dad full time, and their sister at the same time. But like I say, they don't gain anything out of the relationship (from what I can see) and neither does she...and they're young enough they might actually not even notice after it's not the schedule. We didn't see her during the first lockdown and they just stopped bringing her up after a few weeks until she was there again.

He obviously wants all his kids together (naturally) and I think he just presumes he will have. When I try to bring up that I might not be okay with that, his answer is "it's my problem to sort then isn't it" but he has no actual plan of how other than to assume it'll fix itself by them all getting older.

And I don't want to become that high conflict mum. I've dealt with the HCBM as the step-parent... I don't want to start going down the same road, which I feel as if I would be by saying they can't see him at the same time as her.

We came so close at one point to being a blended family in a routine that I feel sick when I think about how fast it's went downhill to this point over the past couple years

@Pippa234

I agree with MeridianB, you need to protect your young children, regardless of how DSD used to be this is the way she is now. Her Mum will see the side of her one day as she gets older and gets more and more out of control. I would be horrified if my kids were hurting little children it's madness that it isn't both your DH and his exs wake up call to sort their daughters behaviour out.

Her mum literally doesn't believe it's happening. Apparently. She thinks he's making it up.

In my opinion what he tells her is actually minimising it, never mind making it up.

But like I say, the school doesn't have any issues with her and that's what she goes by.

She has one friend in school (her mum is friends with friends mum) and so apparently she's a lovely kid who can make friends and there's no issue.

Which to be honest I probably believe she is...just not around my kids.

It sounds like a really rubbish situation, You aren't being high conflict though, you will just be protecting your children.
Something that your partner is incapable of doing unfortunately.

So sorry you are having such an awful time

"In my opinion what he tells her is actually minimising it,"

That's also a big worry, what is he playing at?
They are his kids too that she's hurting.
I think you have to remember here if he's minimising what's happening to her he will probably do the same to you if you let them go.

He has his head firmly in the sand here.

I left an ex partner as he had a child who we had joint custody of and used to leave me out of all their activities to the point where he'd book cinema tickets and never get me one or order pizza in for them and not ask me.

I'd also cook lovely food, made his room all nice, think of nice activities but my ex always wanted it to be them 2 not be and would leave me out all the time it got ambit draining.

I didn't have an issue being second best to a 9 year old but I had an issue with the lack of respect in my house so I told him he had 2 days to clear his and his sons stuff out to his mothers and live happily ever after

Best thing I ever did

I think you're making the right decision and you need to put yourself and your children first x

Thanks everybody for replying... I don't really have anybody in real life to ask about this situation, so I appreciate all perspectives.

I feel like I've been caught in the middle of a playground fight tbh. I've spent the past 5 years defending him, but on hindsight they're probably as bad as each other.

@Hope4theBestPlan4theWorst

I left an ex partner as he had a child who we had joint custody of and used to leave me out of all their activities to the point where he'd book cinema tickets and never get me one or order pizza in for them and not ask me.

I'd also cook lovely food, made his room all nice, think of nice activities but my ex always wanted it to be them 2 not be and would leave me out all the time it got ambit draining.

I didn't have an issue being second best to a 9 year old but I had an issue with the lack of respect in my house so I told him he had 2 days to clear his and his sons stuff out to his mothers and live happily ever after

Best thing I ever did

I think you're making the right decision and you need to put yourself and your children first x

I feel this is actually the effort I've made for his kid in the past. I don't remember him buying a birthday or Christmas present for her since we met. I've clothed her and fed her always in my house since we met... I'd go as far as saying she prefers me to him.

A few years ago she asked if she could call me mum and I found it really weird considering how little she actually seen me.

She won't talk to me these days, but will literally not eat in "our house" unless I cook. Which since I've made myself scarce the last few weeks has meant McDonald's or taking her home without dinner. This isn't a kid I've just thrown to the side. It's a kid I've been emotionally invested in for years. Who seen me as her "mum" at one point..

Who now bullies my own kids. And it is bullying.