I'm fucking sick to death of the Christmas fight every year

[GoldiePaws]

I cannot be arsed with it anymore. I'm done speaking about it with DH. I honestly don't even care now.

I'm sick to death of him and his ex scrapping over Christmas day and who gets to do what and at what time and so on...

I'm sick of DH talking about how it'll ruin his Christmas, he probably won't even get out of bed and so on...

I fucking hate that the run up to Christmas every year is spent in bickering and 'im not even looking forward to it' and so on.

It makes me angry for our child, that their Christmas day is dictated by two people who can't just fucking agree.

It's never about the kids either. It's about them. I want to spend X time with them, I want to do dinner, I want the morning and back and forth.

Just fucking grow up!!

None, that's the problem I think.

Sounds familiar, the DGCs mother usually waits until the day before to decree what will happen. DS hasnt had the kids once on Xmas day since they split up apparently its a 'family day' ie spent with her family. He sees them at ours Boxing day if he is lucky, he can have them for any time between half an hour to a couple of hours depending on what she wants to do in that time.
Court order says alternate christmases and EOW and one evening a week, half holidays, that doesnt happen either, lucky to get a couple of hours a week

[quote DrDetriment]@AIMD it often feels though and of course I can't speak for the OP that mums always get their way about stuff like this and dad is the one expected to always compromise and be grateful for the few scraps he gets with his own kids. Rarely the other way round.[/quote]
I totally appreciate that and it’s unfair that one parent should give up time to the other to keep peace. However I’d rather spend a nice Boxing Day with my kids that participate in an ongoing yearly battle which casts a shadow over the whole of Xmas for all the kids and adults involved.

I would consider it extremely rude of your husband to repeatedly say his Christmas is ruined and threaten not to bother leaving his room, when he has a wife and other children who will be present. Awful behaviour.

How awful for children to have to spend half a day in one house and half in another over Christmas when really all they want to do is play with their new toys. Just let the children stay in one place for a few days. I’m sure the children don’t actually care which parent they are with.

So, what has been the resolution in the past several years? Maybe your husband and his ex just enjoy the dance and have incorporated this as a part of their annual holiday ritual.

One idea is for you to plan Christmas as you choose and let everyone else fit in as they will. You are never going to make the 2 of them grow up or learn to compromise. In your situation, I would tell him what you are planning and let him know that everyone is welcome to participate . HIs kids can open gifts whenever they arrive and dinner will be served at X time. If the kids are not there for those times, you will greet and celebrate with them whenever the arrive.

You, your child, and his kids are just bit players in the petty drama that he and the ex orchestra each holiday season. The kids probably do not care with whom they spend Xmas day as long as there are presents and celebration.
Once you have stated your plans, you should tell your husband that you have no interest in the annual drama and that you will not be taking part in any discussions related to the drama.

@aSofaNearYou

I would consider it extremely rude of your husband to repeatedly say his Christmas is ruined and threaten not to bother leaving his room, when he has a wife and other children who will be present. Awful behaviour.

Exactly. I would consider leaving over this. His youngest child having a disengaged sulking parent every Christmas? Bearing the brunt of his disappointment and believing THEIR presence isn't good enough because of their siblings absence.

I'm making an assumption your shared child is very young, so he needs to be told to sort his attitude out before they are old enough to understand.

Ex and I have a CAO which states that DD is with me each Xmas Eve and Xmas day and with him for Boxing Day and night. Then we revert back to our usual pattern and also alternate New years Eve.
There is some to ing and fro ing but it's set out in a court document.

@victoriaspongecake

How awful for children to have to spend half a day in one house and half in another over Christmas when really all they want to do is play with their new toys. Just let the children stay in one place for a few days. I’m sure the children don’t actually care which parent they are with.

I hate it when people come into stepparenting threads to tell us, in a huge, sweeping generalisation, that some standard situation in many, many families where the parents are not together is just awful for the poor little children. It’s infuriating.

Lots of children whose parents are not together do care about seeing both parents on Christmas Day. My DS certainly does. Indeed, my ex and I always arrange Christmas in the same way (I get the first week, which includes Christmas Eve/day/Boxing Day every year; he gets the second week, because he always wants to take him to visit his parents for the whole week - they’re his support bubble, so he can do it this year). But DS wants to see his dad on Christmas Day. Last year his dad was away on the day and DS was upset he couldn’t see him. I always offer/facilitate for my ex to have DS for a few hours on Christmas Day. I don’t have to but, contrary to the claims that kids don’t care and just want to play with their stuff above, DS absolutely wants to spend time with both parents. And I care about making sure he gets a lovely Christmas, with both his parents.

Tbh, my ex is also putting DS first. Last year he clearly felt bad that he’d made plans and DS was upset not to get to see him. So this year he is spending the vast majority of Christmas Day alone, except the 4 hours he’s getting with DS. Unlike the parents the OP is dealing with both of us are trying to see it from DS’s perspective and put his needs and wants first at Christmas. I’d much prefer to spend all day with DS (and not see my ex at all); I’m sure my ex would rather not be alone most of the day. But it isn’t all about either of us.

No one would insist that it’s just awful for children to spend the day in two houses if one of those houses were a grandparents house or another family member. Apparently it’s only awful if they’re going to dad’s house rather than spending the whole day with mum. 🙄

No one would insist that it’s just awful for children to spend the day in two houses if one of those houses were a grandparents house or another family member. Apparently it’s only awful if they’re going to dad’s house rather than spending the whole day with mum. 🙄

Totally agree.

I hate it when people come into stepparenting threads to tell us, in a huge, sweeping generalisation, that some standard situation in many, many families where the parents are not together is just awful for the poor little children. It’s infuriating

This. My brother hasn’t seen his kids on Christmas day since she threw him out, when they were 2 and 3.

To start he gave in as he was on our parents sofa, and she had the new bloke moved in and wanted to do a “proper christmas”. Then her family has a tradition of boxing day visiting, so he was “allowed” to have them from the 27th, over new year (which worked for her going out NYE).

That kind of set the precedent and the fights, as o/p said were huge if he dared ask for Christmas. He would ruin the kids christmas etc, he didn’t need to go out NYE as he didn’t have a partner etc. So he did what he thought was best for the children.

Anyway these little things do add up and it does affect the parenting relationship long term. Dbro did his best but only seeing your kids on a weekend and not for christmas, going on holiday, living with them etc does make a huge difference. They see mum and stepdad as “home” for uni holidays etc, and usually only pop round as part of a grandparent visit etc.

It’s shit.

We don't do this anymore as its not worth it. We don't expect to see DSD at Christmas even though she lives here now and we just get on with it and enjoy ourselves. The discussions, arguments, blackmail, changing of arrangements at the last minute isn't worth our mental health anymore. Sometimes you just have to move on.

That sounds pretty unreasonable. Your DH attitude of Christmas being ruined would really piss me off too. Makes you feel very much second best doesn't it.
We have settled into the same routine and it works pretty well. Kids (now adults) spend Christmas Eve at Mums, have the morning there and lunch with their maternal Granny. Then come to us in the evening and we have more of an event day with them on Boxing Day.
DH used to mope about quite a bit for the first few years but frankly that got a bit tiresome! He has ruined Christmas for me several times in one way or another, so I tend to just get on with enjoying it myself and he can join me or not.
We have a DD and it's more about her these days.

We live reasonably close to both our exs but DH and I had very different routines for our children.

His son spent most Christmas eves with him and day and went back to his mam on 26th.

My ex and swapped so Christmas eve from lunch time til lunch time Christmas day then Christmas lunch time and 26th with other parent. The rest of the holidays time were fairly split.

We have a younger child and the older ones still mix and match between our houses but Christmas is never ruined for either dh or I because they may not be here at certain times.

The way we see it the older ones got years of really great Christmas's with their family and extend family and dd deserves the exact same now.

You have no control over what arrangements are made for your step children but your dp is completely unreasonable and being a shit parent to the resident child with his Christmas is ruined bullshit.

We think of Christmas as the period from Christmas eve until after New year. We plan different things pre covid obviously for through that period. That allows for lots of family time for all of us.

He is acting like a selfish idiot.

I don't blame you, it's hard to deal with adults who acts more like kids themselves than their own children.

What I hate is that the kids are begging their mum to spend Christmas with their dad and other siblings and she still says no. Why can't they be put first for once rather than her needs?

Is he like this about other things - moping around when your DSC aren’t around as though your shared child doesn’t exist? Why did he have another child if he couldn’t be arsed showing up mentally and emotionally (and physically if he’s actually staying in bed in a grump) for them? I’d be angry, disappointed and hurt. I’d consider it a deal breaker. No one makes my child feel less important because she has non-resident siblings.

I think it's really crap of your DH that he is focusing more on fighting with his ex than establishing nice Christmas traditions with you and your own DC. Whining on that he probably won't even get out of bed. How dare he?

I'd be so ticked off I'd probably plan a Christmas day without him at my mum's or at a hotel.

Not helpful I know. Just telling you I sympathize.

Op that sounds awful. And threatening to ruin christmas for you and your child is bloody childish.

I dont know if this will be of any help at all, but in our house we celebrate the full 12 days of christmas. Christmas eve to the epiphany. Mainly because me and dh are now both off for two weeks. Anyway, we have christmas presents on christmas day and stockings on the epiphany. We also (usually) have presents and christmas dinner at MIL’s. Basically, we dont say Christmas day anymore and just focus on that. We shifted our thinking to the season of christmas, and so each day can be just as special. We have a special croissant filled family breakfast every morning too, which sets it up as a special day, with the Christmas table cloth. We very much stay in christmas mode.

The OP is tired of the particular process, and it is a childish process. However, the OP has not responded to the question of what has been the outcome of this process each year. It may well be that the kids have ended up splitting a part of the day with each parent.

My grandmother would often say that " you have to dance with the girl that brought you to the dance. " I suspect that the crazy Xmas dispute has become a part of the " parents ' dance." They probably look forward to this annual dispute as part of their Xmas preparation. They may not even care very much how it ends ; it is only significant that it happens. They both need to be the one claiming their territory and asserting their status as the more caring parent..

The children probably do not care very much because they know that ultimately they will see both parents and receive all of their presents. OP's daughter was born into a situation where this lunacy has been the standard practice and she too on some level experiences this as a part of the build up to Xmas.

The OP can only change her response to the very predictable drama. She can make her own plans and let all of the others fall in line. She can refuse to engage in or respond to her husband's recitation of or reaction to the situation.

The OP was not her husband's date for the dance that created his older children and she does not have to be a collateral victim to the fall out from that party. In her place, my only response would be" this is what I am doing, let me know who will be here and when they will be arriving. ". I would welcome everyone when they arrived but I would not alter gift openings or dinner time to accommodate the varying arrival times.

I had a colleague day who insisted her DC spent Christmas day with her every year.

Her argument was, that she does all the hard work.all year through, she had the higher proportion of expenses for their DC, as her Ex was self employed and paid a pittance....she's the one who takes time off work when DC us sick, she does school assemblies, parent’s evenings, doctors/dentist appointments and she absolutely deserved to have thus day with her DD.

When she put it like that, I could kind of see her point. The parenting wasn't shared and equal....so she didn't think Christmas should be alternated.

would always

When she put it like that, I could kind of see her point. The parenting wasn't shared and equal....so she didn't think Christmas should be alternated
This is so wrong. Christmas is not about rewarding parents for their hard work. Christmas is about making our children have a special day.

I too did absolutely everything for our children and that is EVERYTHING. I didn't get a penny from him at all, I took and picked up the kids for visitation every single weekend until they could travel on their own and then I paid for their fare every weekend.

Xmas has always been shared, half the day with one, half with the other because that's what THEY wanted. It broke my heart because I 2as on my own the rest of the day and of course I felt I deserved to have them but it wasn't about me.

They are now adults and choose to come and go as they wish. That's with me all day every year for 2 and 1 who spend most of the day with me but will go and visit her dad for a couple of hours.

My kids respect the fact that I never made it about be even though it was really hard at times as he used that to his advantage.

When she put it like that, I could kind of see her point. The parenting wasn't shared and equal....so she didn't think Christmas should be alternated

I would say though it’s impossible to parent completely equally post divorce. Pre divorce it’s usually the woman who takes on the bulk of childcare, the man the financial responsibility.

Post divorce that tends to continue. And tbh I don’t think many women would change that. I know I wouldn’t want to be nrp, or not see my kids for half the week, and have less input into their lives. The nrp also tend to have to defer to the rp for major decisions to avoid fights like the o/p.

So even for those decent men that do step up, pay their way, see their kids etc, it’s still very unusual to have true 50:50 or RP.

Seems harsh to punish them for that.

Take turns or have Christmas Eve at one house and Christmas Day at the other.

People seeing their kids as something to win from the other parent is so sad.