Does this seem reasonable?

[CroakCroak]

We currently have DSC every other weekend. Friday evening to Sunday evening.

We'd like to have them stay more often. Previously this wasn't doable due to work arrangements, etc. But now it is possible.

DH was thinking of suggesting to their DM having them Thursday Evening to Wednesday Morning, every other week. Now, the only thing is DH would have to reduce his maintenance payments to cover the extra costs we would have if we did this. He would have to reduce by about £180/£200 a month. I'm sure DM would be happy for us to have them more often but I'm concerned she'll say no because of the maintenance, which I get. It's a lot to lose per month and if DH could afford to have them more without reducing the maintenance he definitely would. I know he doesn't feel happy about suggesting a reduction but he really wants to see them more often. Does this seem like a reasonable request or would you be annoyed?

@Harmarsuperstar

The point is, he didn't seem to care enough in the past to want to change his working hours to fit around the children, did he? So, is it actually fair to the children to change their routines just because their dad now happens to have more time for them (I'm assuming due to wfh?)

I don't think it's right you can make a comment like 'he don't care enough' how do you know?

Some people need to work in order to survive so if the man now had extra time why can't he see his children more work is important no work no maintenance simple

@NoraEphronsNeck

I find it hard to imagine how it will cost you £200 extra per month to have them for longer.

Because you still have to use more energy in your home more food than usual treats and snacks for the children clothes if they need them it does cost more money in general :/

He would need to take over paying for 50% of the stuff his ex currently pays out of the maintenance money: shoes, coats, school computers etc.

I would be surprised if the older teens want to move back and forth for whole weeks at a time. All their clothes, books, tech, etc.

@SpongebobNoPants

Only on Mumsnet do you hear that so many women are unable to work because of the school run I find it so odd, I don’t know of any women in real life who have had to do this? Don’t most women (or families) who work just utilise wraparound care at school or help from family members etc? If women choose not to work full time because of their children then it is exactly that... a choice. A valid choice, but a choice nonetheless. Being separated from your children’s dad doesn’t require you to pick jobs of school hours only. I find the concept that women do this and “facilitate” their exes really odd.

You don't know any women (including yourself as a single parent) who have had to consider childcare before accepting a job? Not at all? Really? When I went to work once my dc were at school I had to find out what hours I would be required at work, and then find out what childcare there was that fitted with it before taking the job (I'm lucky, my mum did all my childcare so it was a case of confirming she was happy with the hours). If i got offered overtime I had to check with my mum before I could take it. When my manager wanted to change our hours I had to check with my mum. (Replace 'mum' with whatever childcare option you have).

My ex OTOH can apply for whatever job he wants. If he got a job that clashed with his contact time then he would tell me he could no longer see the dc at that time as he had work. If he got overtime he would cancel contact and just assume it was convenient for me.

If the DC were sick (and my mum was unavailable) then its me that has to take time off work. Ex doesn't even work these days and still cancels contact at the drop of a hat/wouldn't have them any extra days to help me when I had work.

Im not saying any of this is what's happening in the OPs case but I honestly can't see how anyone thinks the RP doesn't have to make sacrifices/decisions that the NRP doesn't.

I get it, I truly do. But no one needs to pick a school hours job. You can use childminding services or wraparound care, which if you’re working full time is affordable. If you’re on a low income you can claim a good portion back via universal credit too. Again, I did that for a while until I worked my way up the career ladder so it is definitely doable if you want it

No, you don't get it. Your posts indicate you have one child. At one point, I had a child in nursery, one in an infant school and one in a junior school. That's three drop offs/pick ups at three slightly different times in three different places and only when that had been acheived was I able to try and get to work on time. I had a car and it was impossible. Imagine doing it on public transport.

Not all schools have wrap around care and where they do there can be a long waiting list. Finding a childminder who can fit your child in on the days you need, let alone fit in 3 children, can be difficult. Again, waiting lists can be an issue. Matching childcare to start a new job, particularly if you haven't been working, isn't easy.

I don't have any knowledge on Universal Credit but childcare costs are capped on Tax Credits. So again, probably fine with one child if you're not in London or the South East but if you have 3 children to pay for (and where I am, morning/after school childminders charge at least half a day to cover their costs because of the numbers issue and not being able to fill the space during the day if they're taking your child later on), even covering 80% of the cost doesn't help if after the first £150 you're having to pay the full amount on minimum wage.

Don't get me wrong, I have worked full time for the last 10 years and have juggled and juggled but I was fortunate to have school wraparound and as I teach, school holidays off. I'm not reliant on minimum wage work and for a number of those years, had my mum to help out if I was ill. I am now managing a serious, life-threatening condition in one of my children without my mum and things have become very tricky because I am constantly being called out of school for my own child's needs where his school struggles to manage. We are hopeful things will settle but if they don't, I will have to re-consider what to do.

If you have been single and juggled the childcare etc. you really should have the ability to realise that for some people, it just isn't possible.

@Isthatitnow well clearly you have not read my posts... I have 2 children and have even described the situations with them both

I get zero help, financial or otherwise for my DD and my DS I have 90% of the time.

Due to the age gap between them I have always done 2 drop offs/ pick ups as I’ve either had one in nursery and one in infant school, and now I have one in infant school and one in junior school with 2 different sites and pick up times.

I don't have any knowledge on Universal Credit but childcare costs are capped on Tax Credits
That’s not my experience, my son’s childcare bill was in excess of £1000pcm and the 80% was not capped.

Anyway this is all hyperbole. The OP has said the RP was able to do drop offs and pick ups, there’s been no indication she’s been forced to or couldn’t find childcare etc. It was most likely a choice... considering the children are now between 10-17 years old meaning the older 3 haven’t needed before and after school care for at least 6, 4 and 2 years respectively. Her childcare costs would have been minimal for some time.

And therefore, in the absence of SEN or the children having long term medical conditions (which there has been no mention of), it will have been a choice for their mother to work around school hours for quite some time.

@TheFormerPorpentinaScamander I agree with you, but there has been no mention of any of this in OP’s posts. There’s a whole load of assumptions being made because the OP stated their mum had been able to facilitate school runs. For all we know she might own her own business or WFH and has chosen to do those things.

If women want to work full time, they can. Just get on with it. Yes NRPs unfortunately get to opt in and out of parenting in which is crap, and RPs tend to put their kids needs first but it doesn’t mean RPs don’t have a choice.

I draw your attention to the following link and the passage below:

workingfamilies.org.uk/articles/childcare-costs-and-working-tax-credit/#:~:text=The%20rules%20for%20the%20Working%20Tax%20Credit%20childcare%20element%20are%3A&text=The%20maximum%20childcare%20costs%20taken,childcare%20costs%2C%20whichever%20is%20lower.

The maximum award is 70% of what you pay or 70% of the maximum childcare costs, whichever is lower. This means the most help you can get is £122.50 a week for one child or £210 for two or more children, but remember that you may get less than this because tax credits are reduced by your income.

If you have two pick ups to do, you therefore know of the difficulties. 'Just get on with it' just doesnt' cut if for some situations. How do you propose I manage a situation where I have to leave my class to answer calls (and possibly have to leave my class) from my son's school? I have no additional support. Perhaps he should just be allowed to die so I can work?

@Isthatitnow your situation is completely different and you’re projecting. I said in the absence of SEN or long term medical conditions it is entirely possible to work full time and not necessary to work school hours only.
Do you think working mums only work between 9.15-2.45? The vast majority do just get on with it, work it the best way they can and manage to work full time still.
I don’t know anyone that works a school hours only job, some part time yes but those tend to be on certain days for full day hours.

Working school hours when your children are 10,13,15 & 17 is without a doubt a choice. There is no necessity to still he doing the school run when 3 of the 4 kids are in secondary school.

I don't believe isthatitnow is projecting, you are wrong about the extra help you get for childcare spoungebobnopants, baring in mind the mother of these children actually has 4 children she has had to juggle as well as work for years, yes they may be older now but it doesn't rule out that the mother of these kids has had to adjust her working pattern for her children, having two kids compared to four is alot more difficult to juggle than two.
I think your posts are very smarmy to be honest spoungebobnopants.
You sound like a bit of a 'know it all' so I will leave it there with you

Not projecting at all. Just trying to demonstrate that it isn’t always quite as easy as ‘just get on with it’. Women can be the worst enemy of other women sometimes. Just because you manage it doesn’t mean others can. I manage it, at the moment at least, I wouldn’t dream of telling anyone else to do it because I do. You need to walk a mile in other’s shoes every now and again.

I have not said anything derogatory at all. I’ve said choosing to pick your job around the school run is a very valid choice and is no one else’s business. All I stated was that it was a choice, and in the context of this thread there has been zero implication from the OP that the mother of her SCs had been forced to pick a job which meant she had to be able to do the school run.
Nothing of the sort has been said yet PPs were concluding that the OP’s DH is a shit dad simply because he previously had a job which didn’t enable him to do the school run but their DM could.

I don’t care if women work, are SAHMs, work part time or whatever... it’s their choice.
It’s just irritating to assume women with kids have to base their careers around their DCs school pick ups because I don’t and plenty of other women choose not to either.

It’s always implied on here when people suggest exWs go back to work they get replies of “they couldn’t possibly. How many school hours jobs do you know of?”
When in reality most women can and do work full time. Many choose not to, which as again is totally fine but it is a choice in most circumstances.

But of course she had to pick a job which fitted in around the childcare run, if not the school run. Unless she had a live in nanny.
RPs have to choose a job that fits in with whatever childcare they are using. NRPs rarely worry about it.

Childcare run and school run are very different things, very different hours etc... that’s not in dispute! It was the assumption that she had to be available for school runs, which she didn’t necessarily and there was no implication she was forced to.
That is all I was saying.

Perhaps she was happy for her ex to work more and pay more maintenance to facilitate her choice to work around the school runs?
My point was... no one knows. It’s unfair to assume it’s because their DM couldn’t work full time to facilitate her ex.

People love to jump on a bandwagon on here and assume exWs are so very hard done by and that they sacrifice their lives for their children if their Dad has them EOW. Or if dad tries to have them 50/50 then he’s wrong too.

I find this whole mindset absurd.

While I agree they are different I generally take "school run" to include dropping DC at childcare. Either way its a consideration that usually only one parent has to make.

I do agree though that sometimes dads can't do wrong for doing right. I think sometimes it's possible misplaced anger at the situation we find ourselves in.

@TheFormerPorpentinaScamander I assumed school run meant just that which is why I said using wraparound care or childminders is what most working parents use to be able to work full time.
As I’ve said repeatedly, it’s up to their DM how she chooses to work (or how much) but without knowing the full details of their arrangement it seems unjust to assume their dad has forced it upon her by not being available.

The kids at those ages should be the ones to decide what contact suits them now anyway, especially the 3 older children who are at secondary school

Totally agree with that @SpongebobNoPants. I can't imagine they need any formal agreement for a 17 year old!

I think teenagers - especially the 17 yr old - are a bit old to change a long-standing agreement as they have their own lives revolving around their usual home.

We both work full time, shifts so no flexibility on start/finish times, in a very demanding workplace. We have to work out childcare and school runs. It’s hard but we have no option but to sort it. I think your DH missed the window here.

It’s a shame.

I could manage wrap around care if I were single because I’m well paid and work would be flexible if I needed to go. I completely understand that option isn’t available to every woman on a single salary.

I agree asking to have them more now that it suits and reducing maintenance is a kick in the teeth for their mum. It is nice that you’d love to have them though, and if they aren’t the drop in type Id go back and ask is there a weekday they can come around after school or after their school activities and stay for dinner and be dropped home afterwards, no maintenance change but you see them more often.

And if you think you can’t afford that then really your dh is taking the piss, it’s very likely their mum has both lost career opportunity and income while also spending a lot more than maintenance on their schooling activities equipment clothes social life etc.