Does this seem reasonable?

[CroakCroak]

We currently have DSC every other weekend. Friday evening to Sunday evening.

We'd like to have them stay more often. Previously this wasn't doable due to work arrangements, etc. But now it is possible.

DH was thinking of suggesting to their DM having them Thursday Evening to Wednesday Morning, every other week. Now, the only thing is DH would have to reduce his maintenance payments to cover the extra costs we would have if we did this. He would have to reduce by about £180/£200 a month. I'm sure DM would be happy for us to have them more often but I'm concerned she'll say no because of the maintenance, which I get. It's a lot to lose per month and if DH could afford to have them more without reducing the maintenance he definitely would. I know he doesn't feel happy about suggesting a reduction but he really wants to see them more often. Does this seem like a reasonable request or would you be annoyed?

Only on Mumsnet do you hear that so many women are unable to work because of the school run
I find it so odd, I don’t know of any women in real life who have had to do this? Don’t most women (or families) who work just utilise wraparound care at school or help from family members etc?
If women choose not to work full time because of their children then it is exactly that... a choice.
A valid choice, but a choice nonetheless. Being separated from your children’s dad doesn’t require you to pick jobs of school hours only.
I find the concept that women do this and “facilitate” their exes really odd.

Also to echo previous posters, I think at those ages then it’s up for the SCs to decide if they want to come more or not.
They probably won’t if they’re used to spending so much time with their mum

EOW to 50/50 is too drastic a change imo. He's not unreasonable to ask for a bit more (does he do 50% in school holidays?) but that's a massive leap.

My ExH and I have shared parenting 50/50 for many years but as our son got older he has simply decided he wants one home and he has chosen mine. The important point is that he made the choice. It was a 'voting with his feet' situation so no showdown or massively awkward conversation. He loves us both equally but he has made his home here.
It feels like your SC are coming to ages when the will also vote with their feet.
The money is whole other issue......if he has the children for longer periods, he should pay less child support. However, he should be paying for more child expenses, whatever they are in your family.

@Magda72 Yes, you're right. I understand that. Thank you. I'd probably feel that way too if it was me and my parents we were talking about.

@SpongebobNoPants

Only on Mumsnet do you hear that so many women are unable to work because of the school run I find it so odd, I don’t know of any women in real life who have had to do this? Don’t most women (or families) who work just utilise wraparound care at school or help from family members etc? If women choose not to work full time because of their children then it is exactly that... a choice. A valid choice, but a choice nonetheless. Being separated from your children’s dad doesn’t require you to pick jobs of school hours only. I find the concept that women do this and “facilitate” their exes really odd.

Being separated and the resident parent generally means you have to adjust your schedule to fit and the non resident parent doesn't have the same pressure. Maybe the family help included the ex's family which is no longer available since the split etc. Once you split the dynamics change completely and the resident parent facilitates the non resident parent by having to do the brunt of fitting childcare around work where they may not previously had to

Having read your updates (including the children's ages) I think that it's too late to change things so much. My kids are that age and they definitely tend towards keeping things the same- if their Dad moved 10 minutes away I think that they would still stay here as it's what they are used to. They love their Dad but they have small set routines that they enjoy like walking with kids who live near my house and they'd prefer not to have to find a new group near Dad's. I have a 17yo who will be off to uni before and she would definitely prefer to keep things the same until then. She has a busy life and is on the cusp of taking her driving test so being able to travel freely but definitely prefers the stability of the status quo.

@Harmarsuperstar

Can't you see that their mum has facilitated your dh having the choice not to have to change jobs to find one that fitted around the children?

This!! Tbh your dh is absolutely taking the piss. The DM has done all the hard work and built her life around the kids so he could continue with his ‘stuck in stone’ work hours. Now they are getting older he can have them at a reduced CM...

Bloody hell.

"Only on Mumsnet do you hear that so many women are unable to work because of the school run hmm
I find it so odd, I don’t know of any women in real life who have had too do this? Don’t most women (or families) who work just utilise wraparound care at school or help from family members etc?''

Op has already stated that her dh didn't do any of the helping with the children in regards to childcare, so the mum of the children would have been left to sort it out herself and taken on the full responsibility of the children, it's a very real fact that this happens alot to women especially when people separate. Not everyone can obtain childcare, not everyone has family that helps pick up the slack.

Your response is very short sighted from real life especially as far as multiple children are concerned, childcare is very expensive with multiple children to pretend like a woman has a choice whether to work full time or not when she is left with the full responsibility of 4 kids is rubbish especially in lower paid jobs.

@SpongebobNoPants

Only on Mumsnet do you hear that so many women are unable to work because of the school run I find it so odd, I don’t know of any women in real life who have had to do this? Don’t most women (or families) who work just utilise wraparound care at school or help from family members etc? If women choose not to work full time because of their children then it is exactly that... a choice. A valid choice, but a choice nonetheless. Being separated from your children’s dad doesn’t require you to pick jobs of school hours only. I find the concept that women do this and “facilitate” their exes really odd.

There's 13 weeks of school holidays a year and no childcare for y7/8 who are old enough to be at home an hour or two on weekday term-time but not old enough to spend half-teens or inset days without an adult.

Family help is not as common as places like here suggest imo- especially during Covid where you wouldn't want elderly or CEV relatives doing childcare anyway.

@CroakCroak

Well, rather than sticking to such a rigid arrangement, having them come as and when they choose would be fine but they don't seem the kind of kids to do that particularly. I can't quite articulate what I mean here.

So he wants an open door policy - with reduced CM payments.

I’m glad the DM told you both to get lost.

"Can't you see that their mum has facilitated your dh having the choice not to have to change jobs to find one that fitted around the children?"

This!!
I also agree with PP he's taken the piss he's had 17 years of getting the chance to have his kids 50/50 now they are all mostly grown he now wants to have them more after their mum has done all the hard work.
What he prefers doesn't come into it, it's about what the kids want and by your updates it doesn't sound like they would have any interest in it anyway.

@Snailseyes No, you misunderstand me. If we have an open door policy, i.e, come when you want, [which we have now anyway,] then are maintenance payments would remain the same.

@TicTacTwo I’m not short sighted, it’s still a choice. She
I have been a single parent for 10 years (minus 2 years in the middle) and I used wraparound care. My kids are still of primary school age and I have always been able to work full time because I chose to and to use wraparound care at school and childminders/ kids clubs/ annual in the school holidays.
My ex doesn’t very little to help out in school holidays either so I do get it. But choosing to have jobs that fit in with the school run etc is still a choice.
I was invalidating that choice, his ex can choose to work whatever hours etc she wants to it’s her business only... but to say she’s had no choice is ridiculous because plenty of single parents or working families manage to do it 🤷🏼‍♀️

@LauraBassi I totally get what you mean. And I agree.

Excuse the typos, I’m distracted cooking

@TicTacTwo No, you're totally right. I think we'll just make sure they all know that they are welcome any time but ultimately leave it up to them to come as and when they choose.

I don't really see that you and DH deserve the flaming you're getting on here - kids seeing their NRP EOW is a very standard arrangement and often considered more beneficial for the child than 50/50. Offering to have them more isn't a bad thing and yes in that scenario I do think reducing the maintenance would be fair. But people are right in that at the ages they are and with a routine firmly in place, it should really be an offer rather than an expectation and the kids should get a say. He should just let them and their mum know that he is available and would love to see them more, but let them decide.

@aSofaNearYou

I don't really see that you and DH deserve the flaming you're getting on here - kids seeing their NRP EOW is a very standard arrangement and often considered more beneficial for the child than 50/50. Offering to have them more isn't a bad thing and yes in that scenario I do think reducing the maintenance would be fair. But people are right in that at the ages they are and with a routine firmly in place, it should really be an offer rather than an expectation and the kids should get a say. He should just let them and their mum know that he is available and would love to see them more, but let them decide.

This!

@SpongebobNoPants

Only on Mumsnet do you hear that so many women are unable to work because of the school run I find it so odd, I don’t know of any women in real life who have had to do this? Don’t most women (or families) who work just utilise wraparound care at school or help from family members etc? If women choose not to work full time because of their children then it is exactly that... a choice. A valid choice, but a choice nonetheless. Being separated from your children’s dad doesn’t require you to pick jobs of school hours only. I find the concept that women do this and “facilitate” their exes really odd.

The mental and organisational burden certainly gets left to the mum the vast majority of the time. Taking myself as a case in point, my DC were 5 and 2 when I split up with exH. He paid nursery/wraparound fees on 'his' weekdays but then he got another job and 'couldn't' have them on those days any more. They became my days and I was responsible for fees and the evenings/nights/mornings. No discussion, my agreement wasn't needed, he just did it because I was the RP. I negotiated a flexible working schedule with shorter working hours on Fridays. He 'couldn't' do that so I was 'privileged' (his words) to have the DC the majority of the time. Then he moved 200 miles away for yet another job. Would I move 200 miles away for work? No, because it would uproot my DC's lives. I have to travel abroad quite a lot and have to work out dates and childcare logistics way in advance, rather than jumping on a plane any time I need to. He has them EoW so can travel pretty much whenever he wants. They're now 10 and 8 and only this year did I move to a higher-paying, higher status job because they're old enough for me to have a longer commute. He's had 5 years of only having to think about himself when it comes to his career, while I've had to pay through the nose (CMS doesn't even touch the sides of their wraparound bill), negotiate and restrict myself to what I can feasibly manage while caring for two children. He's had none of the same considerations, responsibility or even the expectation that he should have them. If I decided to abandon my caring responsibilities the way he has then I would be vilified and my children would have to go into care. Him seeing his kids EoW makes him a 'wonderful, caring father'. Someone has to be responsible for thinking of the children's welfare above all other considerations and 9/10 cases that's the RP mother. I'm extremely fortunate that I earned enough to be able to afford a career when my DC were small. I had the choice open to me to use childcare and supportive, local parents who step in when it comes to international trips and school holidays. Castigating mothers who don't have the money or support to do that seems wrong to me.

Returning to your point OP, I'm glad you're thinking of an open-door policy instead. I'd be gutted if my DC chose to go 50/50 now they're older after the blood, sweat, tears and sacrifices I've made to bring them up on my own these past 5 years. It's an insult to think that change would be 'reasonable' after the mother and the DC have organised their entire lives around their father's lack of responsibility for so long.

@SeasonallySnowyPeasant my situation is pretty much as you described, except I get zero financial support for my DD and her father is completely absent. My son’s dad sees him EOW.

I get it, I truly do. But no one needs to pick a school hours job. You can use childminding services or wraparound care, which if you’re working full time is affordable. If you’re on a low income you can claim a good portion back via universal credit too. Again, I did that for a while until I worked my way up the career ladder so it is definitely doable if you want it.

What I’m saying is it’s absolutely commendable to want to pick a job around your children but it is still a choice. No one can blame anyone else for not working the hours they want.
Jobs with overnight stays or travel are obviously not an option, but it isn’t fair to say women don’t have a choice in the jobs they pick because they have school age children. They choose to be there for before and after school... again, totally up to them but it isn’t a necessity.

Am completely on board with Magda.

This is about you guys not the SDCs - as a single parent for some time, the DM will have a routine that works for her because their father was unable to properly co parent.

Having been in this position - it pissed me off that the DCS had to fit in with his lifestyle and hence my life fitted around his lifestyle. All about his wants not what the DCS wanted

Hi all, I'm sorry I'm new on here so might be posting this in the wrong place. I'm not a parent but my OH is . He has a teenage daughter who also has a long term boyfriend ,she is a grown up kind of sixteen year old, very smart and lovely. My question is am I being unreasonable about the following? My work have been pressuring us for what Christmas leave we need , I told him a week ago to just let me know three clear dates that he is also taking so we can have some couple time. His work buds came back with easy going responses to times but he has just asked me to take whatever time and if he's available he is and if he isn't then if I'm on my own and why is this such a problem? I'm quite hurt by it. I have no issue with him being available for his daughter throughout Christmas , whatever days, I made that clear , I don't care what three days mine are but I just want them down on the book. When I said this I explained that I don't want to book leave to be just sat in my flat alone as it feels like every other sad Christmas I have had. He says well if we are not going anywhere what does it matter in lockdown. Like only if we are actually going out it is quality time ? I'm just feeling really low and fed up. If I'm being unreasonable please let me know. Thanks all x

I completely support this idea as long as its what your scs want too.

I strongly believe that a dad has every right to see his child as much as he is able to.

One thing that really boils my blood is women using their kids as a cash cow. There are so many women on her that bitch about their ex/men not taking on the responsibility of their kids or being a Disney dad, but they pick holes in the suggestion of 50/50 care, or kick off the second an increase in contact is mentioned as it means their maintenance money goes down.

My dh has experienced this. His ex refused to allow over a certain amount of contact because she had calculated how much contact to agree in order to achieve a certain amount according to cms. Vile behaviour.

In my opinion, if you want more contact and the kids want more contact then mum will have to find some other way to get the 200 a month if she is so certain she needs it.

@CroakCroak I don't think you deserve some
Of the comments you've been getting as you sound lovely.
At the end of the day DMs tend to do most of the childcare regardless of wether they are in a relationship or not. I've never begrudged my ex because he can come and go as he pleases and choose jobs to suit him, it's life unfortunately so don't let people give you a hard time.
It's always poor mum on MN and she can do no wrong and dad is shit because he only has them x amount of days and the evil stepmum controls this blah blah. You're actually wanting the children more and are being ranted at because you'd need to reduce maintenance to facilitate this.
A lot of people who comment are bitter exes who use their kids dad as cash cows so just ignore and I'm sure there is a lot more back story than you would have time to write about.

Exhas our kids EOW and that's it and even that is too much for them and I have to encourage them to go.
It sounds like your SC want to stay at home with mum which is understandable as everything is there and that's their main home and you sound like you agree with that.
I would speak with the children and just express how you and DH feel and that you would love for them to spend more time at yours, unfortunately they are old enough now to make their own minds up and you and DH have just got to deal with that I'm afraid.