Is this skirt too short? :-0

[Hettyispink]

I am becoming rather concerned about my DP and his DD, who is 14.

She is an only child and her parents relationship was toxic for many years - they are still in the throes of a bitter divorce - which has been delayed / strung out by her mother and consequently now going through court.

His DD refuses to have anything to do with me and my and my two children (13 & 18) because her Mum is upset about the divorce. This has caused a lot of tension in my relationship with him. He finds it hard to do things with me and my two kids.

I have been with my DP for two years, we don’t live together because of the difficult situation. Before anyone jumps to conclusions - no - I’m not the other woman. They were separated and living apart long before we met.

That’s the background and not the main reason for posting...

On several occasions I’ve picked up on some behaviour by his DD that made me feel a bit uncomfortable. When they are together, she is generally all over him, always holding hands or his arm when they are out and cuddling on the sofa - which yes, could just be closeness / clinginess due to the divorce. On the one occasion we tried to all meet up she got very annoyed when I held my DP’s arm - immediately getting stroppy and grabbing his other arm. She also deleted a load of playlists on Spotify that he’d made for me, because she was feeling jealous.

But sometimes it seems like she’s actually flirting with him.

Yesterday she texted him “Is this skirt too short? and then sent a video of herself posing in the bathroom with a VERY short skirt with a split in the side. And when I say posing, I mean exactly that. Her mother was in the house and she could have easily asked her opinion. It just felt really weird. He replied “yes” and thought it was funny.

I’m hoping that if I say nothing and just keep out of it things will just change gradually with time: divorce finalising, getting a boyfriend and her hormones settling down. But right now it’s tough going.

If a teenage girl actually is flirting with her father, I would see that's something to be taken very seriously as clearly its not normal behaviour. But are you sure she's not just jealous? Of you, of the time you spend with her father?

Oh she’s definitely jealous - she knew I was there when the text arrived

I’m trying to work out if it’s flirting / what others think - the photo incident felt odd

Video not photo

The video sounds like a weird thing to send to your dad! Was she trying to get an angry reaction out of him or something? Not being comfortable seeing the two of you touching in pretty standard but I'm surprised your DP only responded 'yes' to her message.

Shes competiting for his attention. Of course she's not flirting. Maybe reduce the time you're there when she sees her df

I’m never there when she is

This is quite some allegations. Maybe she videoed it with noone else in mind but herself.

Then her mum TD her it was too short so she sent it to her dad hoping he'd say it wasn't.

That's what would automatically have come to my mind.

I think in isolation and without other behaviour, I’d have thought that too @dontdisturbmenow

It’s the fact that the other things happened and she refuses to see me and my family - for no good reason at all.

Is my policy of ignoring / keeping distant the best plan then?

Would you say anything to DP if this stuff continues?

I worry that raising it with him will cause more upset - when things might just calm down on their own.

I wouldn’t be interested in keeping the relationship going tbh.

I don't know the specifics of their relationship OP but I do know that step children can be very jealous of physical contact and affection of any kind between parents and new partners, especially when their own attachment from formative years is disrupted.
DSS (12) is often trying to physically come between DH and I. If we have a cuddle on the sofa he will clamber over his father and lie on him. There is no flirting but he does regularly try to tell me that his father was friendly with other women - in circumstances I am fully aware of. For example they went on a camping weekend and he came back to casually tell me that DH had called one of the ladies there sexy pants or some such, when DH corrected him and said no, that is something that was said by X person he will say oh I'm only joking - similarly he will tell me DH was kissing X person on a family excursion where PIL were present (so I am fairly certain not true 😂) and when questioned in more detail by PIL for example he will get angry that they won't play along with the joke. With his mum he is far worse, constantly asking to sleep in her bed and tries to intervene when she is with her fiancé (he is with us 50% of the time) and will call her nightly when he is with us and have an almighty tantrum
If she won't speak with him as she is doing something specific with her partner. I do feel a bit sorry for her.
I mostly ignore it because this behaviour is him absolutely desperate to retain the affection of his parents and feel valued by them, constantly trying to get them to prove that he is the most important person to them and not their new partners / spouses. He has a lot of psychological issues and has seen a lot of therapists and so if there was a suspicion of sexual abuse or improper ness (which I suspect you are implying - please correct me if wrong) then I think it would have been highlighted by now. His problems stem from attachment issues as a baby (diagnosed by behavioural therapists) so are quite possibly a bit more extreme.
In addition DH and I now have DD and whilst he absolutely adores his sister he is also overcome with jealousy - although we have done everything possible to ensure he considers himself a part of this family unit (I come from a similar blended family so I often talk about my own childhood and my adoration for my big brother, which he laps up as he is desperate for love and to belong really and DD's worshiping of him does a lot to fill that hole) he also often talks about when his parents were together and their shared memories and tries to draw DH into talks about his and EW wedding and how much he must have loved mummy and what a wonderful couple they made (not feelings shared by DH surprisingly!) but again it's a desperate attempt to try to reinforce his position in their hierarchy of affection. He does very much view DD as my baby and can't really grasp that she is equally DHs child as he is.
However, the way to tackle this is to partly ignore the trouble making aspects and instead for DH (and me and DD) to do everything possible every day to make sure he knows he belongs here with us (and his mum to do the same). He is also jealous of the relationship between DD and I and complains that she gets to sleep in our bed sometimes or she is attended to as soon as she cries or she is fed and bathed and cleaned and no one does that for him. He doesn't really want me to cut up his food and spoon feed him, he wants the feeling of being loved and cared for (this is however much more specific to his attachment issues and let of the reason I am so desperate not to have DD experience any such issues)
I would definitely think your DSD is doing something similar, she sounds as though she is insecure in your DPs affection for her or her place in his life and wants to constantly reinforce that place (and for it to be as high up as possible). Possibly not for the same reasons but I think there is huge insecurity in a lot of children of divorce as they watch parents form new lives that don't centre on them. How is she with her mum?

Gosh that was very long!

Blimey! @zaffa thanks for such a long response - can defo see similarities

Things with her Mum are complicated... and one if the reasons for the court case. It’s her Mum who is responsible for her feelings about me and my kids - we met up once and things were mostly ok, but then the fallout was massive. Lots of lies and manipulation by her Mum basically.

She needs help and I’m afraid her parents have not set good examples at all.

@zaffa just re-reading - I think she’s very jealous, insecure, confused, has very conflicted loyalties because of how her Mum is handling the divorce (ie: badly, involving her DD in the detail and slagging me off constantly, often using sexual language). For a girl of 12/13/14 this must be awful, so I’m trying to be kind and patient.

I’m just not sure whether to flag up this recent incident as ‘inappropriate’ to my DP. I don’t think his response was great. But then I don’t want to stir things up either.

I think it's harder for you because DH and I are much further down the road and have a much more open dialogue around DSS and his challenges. Also SS and behavioural services have been heavily involved due to challenges raised from his mums house (openly acknowledged by SS that their involvement is due to actions there) and there was also a lot of over sharing (not to DSS directly but instead within earshot) which fueled his anxiety.
I would raise the subject with DP that the behaviour perhaps indicates a desire for his attention and maybe talk about it from that perspective. If you even imply that his daughters behaviour is inappropriate sexually towards him I would imagine he will shut it down.
Do you think truthfully there is an element of that here? What does your gut tell you?

PS all of us get fed up at times! You just need to ensure you remove yourself from DSD presence before it's evident to her at that moment, and take a break for yourself.
It is hard, and incredibly difficult not to be forthright at times with your partner too if you are not sure it will be well received. Be kind to yourself too in that.

I think she’s very mixed up and the reactions of her mother to the divorce and our new relationship have really confused her. It often feels like she’s an extension of her mother - if that makes sense? - parroting phrases and everything we do and say gets straight back. Basically it’s a horrible situation right now, which hopefully will be resolved by two court cases over the next few months. Neither mother or daughter accept that DP has moved on basically and they’ve (both) tried to cause problems for us.

@Hettyispink I have no advice here but sort of understand your feelings as my exDP had a younger sister who was exactly the same. It was very odd and when I spoke to him about her behaviour he didnt really see anything wrong with it...it definitely made me feel a bit 'off'. It did get better, as such, once we'd been together a little while but the first time I witnessed her draping herself on him on the sofa with a kiss to the neck definitely made my skin crawl somewhat. It definitely came from her being jealous of his time with me. Hope you manage to get it sorted your way

@zaffa THIS is helpful and seems like the best way forward:
“i would raise the subject with DP that the behaviour perhaps indicates a desire for his attention and maybe talk about it from that perspective.”

I think it is odd behaviour but also understandable in a young girl confused by her parents' relationship and threatened by her father's new relationship. It is absolutely not something to blame the girl for, it's a product of her experiences for which, no matter how much you want to blame her mother, her father is partly responsible.

It really isn't something for you to be upset or offended by though. You need to be the grown up.

I do feel for you because I have had that - especially EW struggling with DH not being her husband any more. However I was also lucky as DSS also idolised me in the beginning, so there was a mix of resentment (my presence meant there was no going back on the divorce) and a desperation to belong to our family.

All I can say is it you and your partner don't go unto this as a unit you will struggle greatly. A lot of people on MN are very against involvement from step mums but you cannot have a family which has one adult unable to take responsibility for and parent a child who is a part of that family. It won't work long term and will lead to problems and resentment from all members of the family.

@zaffa - to clarify - she doesn’t want to know me of my kids, due to the fallout after our first attempt (her mother went nuts). So I’m never around when she’s with DP. I only know about her behaviour from what he’s said and what I witnessed prior to her mother banning her from seeing us. It’s evident from photos and texts too.

@Alloverthegrapevine Yes I know it’s not her fault, she’s only 14 and witnessed a toxic relationship for years. Without going into a horrendous amount of detail - it really IS mostly her mothers fault. She’s a very confrontational character. My DP was completely worn down by her during the marriage - yes partly his fault for not standing up to her, but truly she’s very difficult to deal with and has resisted being divorced for years. I think it’s just easier for her daughter to have nothing to do with us all and pretend we don’t exist.

I’m really hoping this behaviour will kind of go away on it’s own. I’m just trying to understand it.