His daughter pretends we don’t exist - 18 months on

[DaveTheDog]

I’ve been with my DP for just over 18 months. He was separated for four years prior to meeting me, but stuck in an abusive coercive control situation (with DV incidents with police involvement). He’s now a year into a high conflict divorce with his Ex - now having to take her to court as she refuses to progress financial matters. Seems his Ex will do whatever it takes to prevent the divorce from happening.

He looks after his 13 year old daughter 10-12 nights a month, when his Ex is working. His Ex is often difficult about handover timings and constantly sends him abusive texts and emails. She has told appalling lies to their daughter about me and my kids, some of which his daughter has questioned and now knows that her mother has lied about us.

When he told his daughter about me (after 6 months) she was initially happy and keen to meet all of us. But as soon as his Ex found out he’d told her ...all hell broke loose. We waited 8 months before meeting up and had a nice day out all together - but as soon as she got home the Ex kicked off screaming and shouting down the phone at both of them - and so we have only seen her a couple of times since - and only very briefly. Any attempt to meet up is now prevented/derailed.

He spoke to his daughter about meeting up again recently and it seems that she would rather pretend we don’t exist. I’m guessing because it’s just easier - not to deal with any further fallout from her mother.

My partner now lives his life in two parts. His time with his daughter and his time with me and my two children. He finds doing things together with me and my kids difficult, so we tend not to: he won’t go to the cinema with us and even finds shopping trips together difficult. My kids are 13 and 17 so it’s easy enough to do things separately.

I’m obviously very sad about this situation and all the unnecessary damage and pain caused by one very jealous controlling person.

If we have to continue living our lives in two parts then I’ll make the best of it. We love each other very much and we intend to live together at some point (obviously impossible right now).

I’m just wondering if anyone has any advice / experience of this?

Honestly, save yourself, the girl and your own kids a lot of aggravation.

The ex needs to come to terms with the fact he has moved on. Better to avoid explosive situations as, at the end of the day, all the kids are teens who may want to spend most time with their friends and unlikely to want to do much stuff as a family.

Try to see it this way, the time he is away with her DD is time you can devote exclusively to catch up with your own kids.

It is a pity he doesn’t want to join in with stuff out of guilt but as long as that doesn’t mean you and your kids miss out on holidays and activities not to upset him, it is his own guilt to deal with.

PS. I’m very close to my son, but in the few times I bumped with him and my ex he was very distant with me, that kept him safe from his dad’s outbursts, so it was a small price for the two of us to pay.

I really feel for you as my son is in a similar position. His kids admit their mum manipulates them but life is hell at home if they don’t comply. His DD 20 sneaks out to meet him but his son finds the mental pressure too much. He too hopes that they will have a normal relationship once they leave home.

I don't understand why you keep refering to 'we' and 'us' when talking about visits. You've met only a few times, don't live with her dad, she is in no way visiting both of you but her dad and it seems totally fair that at this point, she is not yet considering you and your children as her family.

You've been together only 18 months, met her only 10 months ago, he is still dealing with a divorce. Sounds like he needs to deal with all this before starting to introduce a new family to his daughter. It is the right thing to do to take things slowly. If all goes well, there will be plenty of time to make cinema trips all together.

I feel for you.. when I met dh he was just separated and ‘grieving’ not being able to see his kids every day. I remember him coming to the park with me and mine, and it was just so obvious he didn’t want to be there when his kids weren’t. I remember finding it so hurtful, thinking my kids deserve better.

The only thing that helped was time, but for now I would explain to him that you are sympathetic but can see he’s not in a place to move on and embrace your children, so best not to try. When things hopefully change in the situation with his dd, you will find him more relaxed and embracing.

@Dontdisturbmenow I refer to ‘we’ and ‘us’ because - despite 18 months - I know that this is a serious relationship. Sometimes that just happens. I’m 48 and I’ve been around a few blocks...

I would keep inviting the daughter to things you’re doing, but tell her you understand if she feels she can’t. Keep telling her she’s loved by this side of her family and always welcome. That’s there’s always a space for her. Let her keep processing that it’s not you guys putting the walls up and causing trouble. In a few years she’s going to see what’s going on for herself and her mother may regret her controlling behaviour. In the meantime support your bf, it must be awful for him (my husband’s ex went through a phase of this, but it couldn’t last once my dss had gone to uni, and things are actually quite civilised now he’s in his 20s!). He must get that divorce finished too - another part of her control lessened. Women like her make me ashamed to be female.

Thank you @Honeyroar x

I’m 48 and I’ve been around a few blocks
But this not about you, not even your relationship but about the relationship between your oh and his daughter.

Not doubting that your relationship isn't serious and progressive but it doesn't change the fact you hardly know the girl and from her perspective, you don't even live with her dad yet so will not be processing that she is visiting her dad as part of a couple yet.

If things are getting difficult between your oh and his DD, he needs to work on it on his own, taking the time to get her used to the idea of her dad gradually coming as a package before you start getting involved in issues to do with her.

And how is she going to get to know her if they don’t spend anytime together? you can’t exclude your kids from your present to protect them from the fact that people move on. That’s ridiculous! ... but probably the best thing to do in the short term to avoid the nasty ex hurting her own child and your relationship.

And with regards to the use of the words “We” and “our”... good for them that have got to that point, there are some people don’t manage to become a team even after decades of marriage.

@DaveTheDog - you have my utmost sympathy - been there, done that & worn the t-shirt.
I was with exdp for 5 years. His kids (all teens) never accepted us. No more than in your situation initially it was because the hassle they got going back to their dm after being with me, my kids & dp was a huge source of stress to them & yes, she told lies & said awful things about me & my kids. We decided the best thing to do was for me to stay in the background for a bit & for dp to see them alone. Dp also struggled with doing things with me & my kids as his would be missing out but he went to counselling & it really helped him regarding this so I would advise this for your dp.
However, me staying in the background ultimately backfired in that the kids (& their dm) got so used to not having to deal with my existence that when they did have to hang out with me it was hell - they were tense, moody, rude to my kids (though cleverly, never too rude to me) & made it quite clear they wanted to share their dad with no one & did not want any of us around. I should point out that the were 19, 16 & 13 at this stage.
In many ways I felt very sorry for them as they had a fraught relationship with their dm, but dp kept propping this up & overcompensating for it & by the time we split they were having weekly dramas with their dm about essentially nothing, but expecting dp to drop everything & sort things out for them all the while treating him like an atm.

I couldn't watch the drama any longer & honestly didn't want my kids exposed to it so I left.
Looking back I think dp handled things the only way he knew how, but he handled them badly & subsequently created a dynamic between him & his kids that is pretty unhealthy. They don't view him as a person with feelings & a life who gets tired sometimes, but rather someone to endlessly ride in and do everything for them. Don't think he got a xmas or bday present from them in the time I was with him.
My advice to you is stand back atm, but be very wary of standing back too much for too long, thereby creating the them & us situation that I got into.
A therapist once said to me that every couple needs a metaphorical wall around them. The couple as individuals or together can leave & enter their inner sanctum through the wall, but nothing nor noone else (especially kids) should be allowed enter because the minute that happens the couple become divided from the outside in & their bond is weakened. I think this is so true. In my marriage my exh let alcohol & subsequent infidelity in & in the case of dp he let his kids & ex in & it was the end of us.
For some reason I never had that issue - I could prioritise my kids whilst also prioritising my relationship, but dp just couldn't.
Hope it all works out for you.

@IdiotInDisguise, I believe you become a 'we' in the instance of a step-family when you at least move together. This is not even the case for OP.

Of course they should meet, but in a 'getting to know dad's girlfriend', not in a 'its now us and we from now on, take it or leave it'.

It takes time for a 13 year old to accept that one of their parent now comes as a package, and it seems that in this case, it's been thrown at her too prematurely, considering they don't even share a home yet.

It's very easy to blame the ex in such instance, rather than considering that the issue could actually have nothing or little to do with them.

It takes time for a 13 year old to accept that one of their parent now comes as a package, @Dontdisturbmenow you are very right in this. However, I know from my own experience that my dd (who is now 14 but who was 7 when she met dad's gf - now her sm - & 9 when she got a new half sibling) seemed to need my ok in order to allow herself to like her sm & half siblings. I know that if I had expressed any negativity dd would have 'sided' with me. As it was I encouraged a positive attitude to dad moving on & having seen what subsequently happened in my situation with exdp I can say that my attitude made a world of difference to helping my kids, & especially dd, come to terms with the fact that their dad had become part of a package.
So yes, while the 13 year old in this post does need time, you can be certain that if her dm is not on board & does not let her dd see that she herself is ok with her ex moving on she will always struggle to accept dad's new relationship because childrens' loyalty is always with their bio parents.
To this end exes are often very much to blame for their kids ongoing distress when new relationships are formed.

@Dontdisturbemenow, you are “we” from the moment you are in a serious relationship. You do not need to wait to introduce the kids until you are living together, in fact that is a very bad thing to do, what if they don’t get along? What if your new partner has a low toleration threshold for kids, what if the kids are unbearable. Waiting until you are living together to check these things, it is a disaster in the making.

@Dontdisturbmenow
Well said! You are absolutely right.
Dear OP. You have potential relationship with that man. Let children (yours and his) find their way to accept you as a couple. You spoke with your children and they are fine with the situation. Never-less, you still referring to them as "they deserve better" , "They are in unfair situation". One of them is almost grown up. another one will be grown up soon. They really don't care about all that drama.

Maybe would help you best if you can get some counselling by yourself (without your OH) just to understand where you are with your relationship right now.

Sometimes we, woman, in our head (and imagination) we are far ahead of the reality and where things actually are.
Are you calling his parents "in-laws" already? :)

Thank you @Annaminna

you are “we” from the moment you are in a serious relationship
It depends what you mean by serious. Children consider 'we' people in their lives who are permanent or expected to be so, parents, grand-parents, siblings, aunts/uncles/cousins etc...

They do not consider 'we' people who come and who might go as quickly as they came in their lives. People in relationships who don't yet live together and have been together for only a few months over a year sometimes move to the next step of commitment by moving together, sharing finances, the vast majority of their free time, and then marriage if they both believe in it. However, many will not make it to that next stage.

It is not fair to expect kids to accept that their parent new partner should have as much of a role in their lives, influence the parent, even make decision for them, when they could just disappear from their lives in just one day. Of course it can happen at any point of a relationship, but it's about likelihood, and a couple not yet living together is more likely to break up than one who has lived together for some time.

So no, I don't think there is a 'we' in short relationship living separately. There is a move towards it, but with an acceptance that it is going to take some time for the child to accept it as such. They don't have to do so just because their dad's new partner expects them to see their dad and her as a union because that's how she considers her relationship.

Firstly - the Ex is absolutely to blame for this situation. From the outset she did everything possible to ensure I wasn’t going to become anything permanent. Including lies and manipulationto her daughter, family, friends and family.

Secondly - we don’t live together because we CANT live together - because of the situation that has been caused by this woman. NOT because we don’t want to.

Thirdly - when his DD was told about us she was happy and asked lots of questions and wanted to meet us. THEN the Ex kicked off and putting her straight’. It’s simply not worth her while trying to engage with us - the fallout has been awful.

What we are trying to do now is negotiate the final stages of this horrendous divorce and try to blend our families as sensitively as possible. But so much damage had been done by one very selfish individual that I’m not convinced it will be possible while they are young.

Why can’t you live together because of the ex?

She can’t control your decisions! This is your fundamental issue - your dp is still kowtowing to her.

I absolutely agree with @Magda72, or more her therapist regarding the metaphorical wall. You have a duty to one another that is separate to that you have with your respective children.

I agree with keeping the invitations to the dd to everything, but no pressure- however if she doesn’t want to go and it’s something you all want to do, you need to go anyway. As she would be with regular full siblings, she’s a part of something not the centre of it. Her thoughts and wishes are important to the family, but they make up a part of the decision process

If dp doesn’t take a stronger stance tbh, you’re in for a lifetime of being put last behind everyone else including his poisonous ex.

The ex won’t be a part of this for much longer. Dp can liaise with his dd directly for contact once this divorce is done and dusted.

We can’t live together because 6 months ago the Ex moved - to be further away from me / mess things up. My DP now rents a property near to his DD so he can look after her when his Ex is working.

So currently he moves between two places - his rented flat and my home.

Well that’s what prohibited steps orders are for... and childminders tbh. As she moved away, she can facilitate contact

I don’t think your dp is going to cut the mustard.

18m is nothing in the scheme of things, I’d walk tbh. Your own peace and serenity is worth far too much. This situation will never improve because your dp is still scared of her.

@DaveTheDog - again I'll say I've been where you are and my advice is that is just does not work.
What I mean by that is exdp & I ended up with him living between two locations. Technically he was the one who moved, but, he had always worked away from home so while he maintained a small property where his ex & kids lived post divorce he was rarely there except when he had the kids (even prior to meeting me). I won't rehash our circumstances as many on here will know my 'story', but the strain put on us by all the stuff I've previously mentioned (bitter ex, self centred teens) was further impacted by us not being able to establish a base together. I don't necessarily mean a shared house (that doesn't suit everyone) but a shared town would have helped! I went to so many events/gatherings solo when we were together I may as well have been single! Socially I have no problem doing things alone but when you're a couple & you can't even agree to a meal out, hike in the hills, casual drink with friends/family without saying "dp can't make it" it gets remarkably frustrating.
All this is stuff that breaches that metaphorical wall!
I REALLY understand where you're at & I'll be honest and say I still haven't figured out what the answer is.
In retrospect I think as a couple we should have been a bit more selfish given the ages of the kids. There should have been better & more frank communication between dp & his kids & instead of giving into their whims he should have tackled their issues re us head on instead of just trying to keep them happy. So like pps have said post divorce I'd definitely say your dp should communicate only with his dd & communicate very honesty about his feelings for & future with you while always reassuring her she's a big part of that.
The other thing I'll say is that I do regret (if that's the right word) not just 'dating' dp from the start. I think if we'd been more aware of the pitfalls & had been wise enough to say to each other we won't be living together until the kids are all left school so let's just enjoy our time together & not get mired in expectation we might still be together. But then we might not as dating long term is probably not 'normal' or sustainable.
I dunno.

However you reality do have my sympathy - the frustration of others controlling your life can be overwhelming.

I’m ignoring that stuff about 18 months... 🙄🙄🙄🙄 We are in a committed, serious relationship. We are trying to deal with a tricky situation with a child going through a horrible situation.

The hope is that, once he gets Absolute, the FMH is sold and the finances split, we will buy a home together in the town where I live and he/we will also continue to rent a flat near his DD until she’s 18. He’ll spend about 10 days away from me a month, which I’m OK with (it’s only like being away on business). If his DD eventually decides to spend time with us before she’s 18, it will work out far less than 10 days apart because we could all be together at weekends.

Far from ideal, I know, but the best we can do.

Hi @DaveTheDog - you seem to have a very firm grasp of things at your end & I'm sorry if my posts were/are coming across as negative - I'm just trying to give a viewpoint from someone who has been there & to be honest I would have greatly benefited from someone before me having been in my situation.
What we never took on board was the 'pull' of the exw & kids to get dp back into the first family as it were & that's all I've been trying to convey in my posts. 10 days away is not much - I agree - but mentally & emotionally it can become a lot when it's being spent with someone (in this case your dp's dd) who may be actively encouraged (by dm) not to give blending a go, or who is possibly being told that you & your children are 'the enemy'. In this scenario many teens are very reluctant to relinquish their nrp's undivided attention in order to spend time with his/her partner & other children & I do think that unless you're an extremely resilient person it is very hard to create a 'home' under these circumstances.
I'm only trying to point out the pitfalls as I experienced them - I hope you have much better luck & a more resolute dp than me & I really do mean that .

Thank you @Magda72

His DD has said again recently that she thinks things will be different when they are actually divorced.

I didn’t mean to offend you, but honestly you’re not being considered here by this man, he’s in a mess with the ex and his kids and it’s a huge risk that things WONT change at all with this woman once he’s divorced.

You won’t even know who he really is, hell HE won’t know who he really is post divorce because he’s never spent time on his own while not married to her. Divorce affects people even when they’re amicable and mutual. He will need to process a lot of stuff and he can’t do that when in a relationship.

I get that you love him, I get that he loves you but the sacrifice you and your family are making because he can’t tell this creature to pack it in, can’t bring himself to parent his own dd appropriately and you are the very bottom of the pile in all this.

18m is nothing in the scheme of things, it really isn’t. You know this. You’re upset I’m saying it because it hits a nerve. It’s not being said to dismiss you or hurt you, it’s to try to put some perspective into this. It takes at least a few years to really know someone and even in this supposed honeymoon period he’s not putting you first, not ring fencing your relationship together and all you have is the scraps once his ex and his dd have had their slices.

You need to be both protected inside your own walls together sometimes, and that’s not happening.

I say this as a partner to a man with an awful ex, with a poisoned dc and years of crap.

It stopped because I/we come first and if a dc is being used and manipulated to hurt him/us, if dc is told to send vile texts and does, dc is told that messages like that won’t get a response, visits wont happen and outraged demands will be ignored. When dc is normal, and pleasant and not insulting him its green for go.

Reward the good, ignore the bad.

It’s taken a while but it’s working, and the ex is losing interest in causing trouble because it doesn’t work. Her manipulative tool is worthless