Mother withholding contact due to maintenance

[NorthernSpirit]

Just need a handhold & a rant....

The background....

OH been divorced over 7 years. Very acrimonious divorce. EW threatened that if he left her he would never see the kids (then 7 & 4) again. He spent 2 years in court fighting to see the kids. EW is still very bitter and abusive.

He has a very defined contact order. He’s since taken her back to court 4 times for her breaching the contact order (each time she just gets her wrists slapped). Last time was when she agreed to a holiday, he paid for it (4 months in advance) and the morning he was due to pick them up she emailed to say she had changed her mind and the kids weren’t going.

CM written into their consent order in 2014. He agreed to pay £150 over the stated CMS amount - mother has been in receipt of £800 pcm since then. In addition he pays for 2 mobile phones / contacts and clothes, clubs etc (mother won’t let the kids now 11 & 14 take a stitch of clothing from her home).

OH has never missed a payment or never paid late paying.

In June this year my OH found out he was being made redundant. He wrote to her to in June to let her know.

He stopped working in Aug. He has since found temporary work but has taken a significant pay cut.

He applied to the CMS to assess payment and they calculated his new maintenance payment. From Aug - Oct OH continued to pay the maintenance at the full rate of £800. She’s had 6 months notice and we just can’t sustain the higher level of payment any longer.

The now....

CMS calculation made and he’s emailed her to say that the payment ongoing (remember she’s had 6 months notice) will be reducing from this month on.

The first abusive email was sent by her last week - saying that she’d sat the kids down and told them their “lousy father didn’t think they were worth paying for”. She stopped contact happening that weekend.

Then he gets abusive texts (and I mean abusive) ) telling him the kids are “pay per see” and he won’t be seeing them until he pays the “normal” maintenance.

You can not rationally deal with thus woman. My OH is always polite and business like but he usually receives a barrage of abuse back.

He contacts his solicitor who writes her a letter asking her to reinstate contact. She contacts the solicitor back immediately to say unless he pays he’s not seeing the kids.

Solicitor says it’s unlikely they would get it into court before Christmas. He’s absolutely desperate to see them - he hasn’t seen them for 4 weeks and he’s worried he won’t see them over Christmas.

Oldest is 14 but is absolutely under the mothers control. She’s been told not to call or text her dad and she doesn’t.

He rang the kids last night and they were clearly upset and told him they weren’t coming this weekend as “he doesn’t pay their money”.

My OH was in bits and in absolute desperation to see his kids has paid the money (£800).

We just can’t sustain this and continue to pay.

Just wanted to rant and ask how these women can abuse their own children? Yes, I know it’s tough the money is going down but until it goes back up we all need to reduce our lifestyles.

How can you use children like this?

Any advice gratefully received. OH can not afford the higher payment and is now worried that he won’t see the kids over Christmas.

What an awful situation to be in.

This ex sounds completely unreasonable and clearly gives no regard to the DCs relationship with their DF. The actions of some parents just never fails to amaze me.

I would proceed through the courts to get a contact order in place and pay the CMS amount plus the £150. Nothing else.

Really sorry OP, she sounds completely awful. Nothing to add but sending you and your OH

Awful awful awful behaviour from this woman.
I am so sorry for these children and their father (and you for being technically embroiled in it).
He really needs to stop paying it, go to court and show those solicitors letters and comms.
It's horrendous that people get away with this.
Being redundant is bad enough without the worry of having your children alienated and removed from you. Your poor partner having this double whammy.
So many kids are messed up by this kind of crap. I'm 35 and remember my mum doing this to me. She never said I couldn't go, but dripped poison in my ear until I was screaming at age 10 in my dads face and refusing to go. I now have a poor relationship with both parents.

Oh OP.

Unfortunately it looks like back to court.

Thanks all for your words.

I really didn’t want him to pay the higher amount again, not only because we can’t afford it but because her blackmail and manipulation has won. She stopped contact 2 years ago because he refused to give her a lump sum of £3k. She withheld contact for 8 weeks and told the kids he couldn’t be bothered seeing them.

He has never ever said a bad word about her or badmouthed her to the kids. But when does he get to give his side to the kids?

He’s in pieces.

He spent 2 years fighting her in court to see them, and has been back 4 time’s since (last time the judge told her that ‘he would take the children off her and they would live with their father’. On the way out of court she told him to f@ck off and it would never happen.

7 years down the line and her bitterness is all consuming.

Does anyone have an experience of issuing the C79 for breach of the contact order?

They have a CO - not that it seems to be worth anything.

Sadly I don’t think the children will ever realise what she’s doing. She has control over them and even at 11 & 14 they do exactly what she demands.

Thanks all.

He has never ever said a bad word about her or badmouthed her to the kids. But when does he get to give his side to the kids?

I know it's taboo to be seen as speaking badly of the ex but he really should be explaining the truth to them. What she's doing is parental alienation using things that simply aren't true and he has every right to explain the facts to them.

He doesn't have to insult her personally but he should be explaining to them that he has been made redundant and what that means for his ability to pay. He has in no way "decided" they are not worth paying for. If he isn't honest with them, they have no way of ever knowing what their mum is doing and he leaves them entirely in her hands to raise them to be bitter and deceitful. They are old enough to have some say in whether they see him or not.

Hi @NorthernSpirit - so sorry to hear this is going on,
I would defo tell him to stop paying the 800. A) as you say it's giving into the manipulation & B) it's setting a precedent and if it does go back to court she could argue if he can pay it once he can pay it again. Most judges would probably kick her to touch but she could get a pro mum sympathetic one!
Unfortunately it does sound like he'll have to go back to court.
I wonder what would happen if he played her at her own game - no access, no maintenance?! Would she start behaving then? Maybe it's time for him to get really tough as I know from your posts this woman has been awful for years.
My exdp's exw was v similar & I often wondered was she like that because she knew dp would ALWAYS capitulate for the sake of the kids.
I've no real words of wisdom but I do think once this gets sorted your dh is entitled to call our her behaviour - not her but her behaviour - to the kids. It's absolutely awful that she is poison the kids but rest assured that it will come back to bite her in the future.
Sending you a virtual hug.

I’d issue the application and send a covering letter asking for it to be listed in front of the judge from the last hearing

Hi OP, no advice on the legal elements of this but as a kid who's lived through it, trust me they will see through their mothers actions one day.

I'm not sure if it would be allowed nowadays, but when my mum was stopping contact my dad would write us letters and get them to us via the school. He never said anything bad about her but just explained why he couldn't see us etc. Just don't make the kids feel like they need to chose a side, he can explain his side of things but please be careful of the wording as/when he gets to speak to them. Nothing worse as a kid as feeling like you are only wanted to get one over on the other parent.

Also keep any evidence of court cases, texts and emails etc. Kids can get a copy of this when they are adults and make their own minds up about it all.

Honestly, I would contact social work with the evidence you have. It doesn't sound like there is a positive relationship with her to salvage. What she is doing sounds like emotional abuse.

If DH has a CO in place for contact then he’s entitled to take the kids between the times stated. For example if he has contact on a weekend he’s within his rights to turn up at the house and call the kids to say ‘I’m here if you want to come’ or knock on the door!

If a formal CO is in place the police will not remove kids from him regardless of how awfully EW kicks off! I’d strongly consider him being more up front with DC about the truth of the situation and maybe even allowing them to see the messages EW has sent. No it’s not good for them but it’s no worse than being convinced their dad doesn’t care about them!

Thanks for the advice all - really appreciated.

He did get in touch with CAFCASS last year when she told their 13 YO daughter not to text or call dad (he’d read about parental alienation and she ticked 16 out of the 18 signs). CAFCASS gave him no support Nd were next than useless.

She has previously been invested by social services for withholding contact.

We’ve discussed tonight - he’s going to go to apply to the court for breach of the contract order (she’s told him that she decides from here on in).

He’s also going to contact Cafcass and social services tomorrow.

More importantly he’s going to talk to the kids this weekend (and focus it on her actions rather than her). He hates confrontation but I think has realised it’s now gone to far. She’s a manipulative bully and I can already see the damage it’s doing to the kids (especially the older girl).

Thanks for all your support.

I am so sorry to read this, clearly you care a lot and it's just so unfair on you both and the children.

We have been experiencing something similar and have experienced similar behaviours. It's not on and the children clearly suffer as well as the parents.

OP this sounds so tough.
You are right to fight it through the courts.

You are also right to explain to the children in an age appropriate way, what is happening. Your dh sounds like he is reasonable. I'd recommend writing down phrases he wants to say to the children and make sure it all comes from him. Keep it totally factual and no feelings involved.

How bad is the cut in maintenance NS?

No justification for withholding contact ever.

As shit as it is I'd pay to be able to see them over Xmas. I'd also tell them about the change of circumstances and that he is still paying for them but not as much as he was able to before. They aren't babies they can understand all that.

Turn it take her to court again

*then

If I was you I would temporarily stop paying her any money at all. She will soon change her ways, I know it seems harsh but this will clearly be having a huge effect on him and at this state what has he got to loose ?
She is already telling the children he isn’t paying and she is already in breach of her part of the contract so let’s see how quickly she is open to a more adult like conversation when all of the men met stops.

She sounds like a terrible woman, who acting in a decent and proper manner has not worked so far. I’m sorry you both have to deal with this !

Your ex needs to tell the children that they are being lied to about him and should know that they are being lied to constantly about him. Ask the D.C. to realise what propaganda is and realise that’s what’s happening

Stating that he is being lied about is not bad mouthing someone else, it’s stating your defence

@Tooconfused123 - I felt bad for suggesting this upthread! Glad to see someone else suggest same. I really think this woman is being a classic bully & the only way to stop her is to take very decisive action.

Please do not stop paying to 'punish' her. It's the kids who will inevitably suffer.

@breakfastpizza - he has never not paid maintenance for the kids.

But is that what the CMS say he should pay + the extra he pays or the £800 she’s demanding or he doesn’t get to see the kids?

And I totally agree that this woman is a classic bully I wish he hadn’t given into her demands, but he has. We don’t actually know if she’ll ‘let’ the kids come this weekend. God, I had hoped now the oldest was 14 she would decide on contact herself but she’s completely under the control of the bully EW.

Oh @NorthernSpirit , reading about your Ex Factor over the years has really made me appreciate my DSDs mum. She can be a contrary PITA and has been known to arse around with contact (latest being she has booked things for DSD on our weekend this Christmas, has decided to take DSD away the rest of the holiday, which is supposed to be 50/50, and is expecting us to “do Christmas” with DSD in January ) but she’s positively saintly compared with the monster your DP had kids with!
I could cry for those poor children. Why don’t some people seem to understand that if you make a child hate their parent, it is poisonous as they are hating half of themselves? It’s just awful. Best case scenario is they grow up to be entitled little shits but what she’s doing is so much worse than that!
I have no advice as I know you have already got the T-Shirt but sending a virtual hand hold