Mother withholding contact due to maintenance

[NorthernSpirit]

Just need a handhold & a rant....

The background....

OH been divorced over 7 years. Very acrimonious divorce. EW threatened that if he left her he would never see the kids (then 7 & 4) again. He spent 2 years in court fighting to see the kids. EW is still very bitter and abusive.

He has a very defined contact order. He’s since taken her back to court 4 times for her breaching the contact order (each time she just gets her wrists slapped). Last time was when she agreed to a holiday, he paid for it (4 months in advance) and the morning he was due to pick them up she emailed to say she had changed her mind and the kids weren’t going.

CM written into their consent order in 2014. He agreed to pay £150 over the stated CMS amount - mother has been in receipt of £800 pcm since then. In addition he pays for 2 mobile phones / contacts and clothes, clubs etc (mother won’t let the kids now 11 & 14 take a stitch of clothing from her home).

OH has never missed a payment or never paid late paying.

In June this year my OH found out he was being made redundant. He wrote to her to in June to let her know.

He stopped working in Aug. He has since found temporary work but has taken a significant pay cut.

He applied to the CMS to assess payment and they calculated his new maintenance payment. From Aug - Oct OH continued to pay the maintenance at the full rate of £800. She’s had 6 months notice and we just can’t sustain the higher level of payment any longer.

The now....

CMS calculation made and he’s emailed her to say that the payment ongoing (remember she’s had 6 months notice) will be reducing from this month on.

The first abusive email was sent by her last week - saying that she’d sat the kids down and told them their “lousy father didn’t think they were worth paying for”. She stopped contact happening that weekend.

Then he gets abusive texts (and I mean abusive) ) telling him the kids are “pay per see” and he won’t be seeing them until he pays the “normal” maintenance.

You can not rationally deal with thus woman. My OH is always polite and business like but he usually receives a barrage of abuse back.

He contacts his solicitor who writes her a letter asking her to reinstate contact. She contacts the solicitor back immediately to say unless he pays he’s not seeing the kids.

Solicitor says it’s unlikely they would get it into court before Christmas. He’s absolutely desperate to see them - he hasn’t seen them for 4 weeks and he’s worried he won’t see them over Christmas.

Oldest is 14 but is absolutely under the mothers control. She’s been told not to call or text her dad and she doesn’t.

He rang the kids last night and they were clearly upset and told him they weren’t coming this weekend as “he doesn’t pay their money”.

My OH was in bits and in absolute desperation to see his kids has paid the money (£800).

We just can’t sustain this and continue to pay.

Just wanted to rant and ask how these women can abuse their own children? Yes, I know it’s tough the money is going down but until it goes back up we all need to reduce our lifestyles.

How can you use children like this?

Any advice gratefully received. OH can not afford the higher payment and is now worried that he won’t see the kids over Christmas.

He doesn't need to say to dc she she she what she doed
He needs to say I have been made redundant this means xxxx
I want to see you
I pay xxx amount cms
I can still take you to do xx and yyy
I I I

Thanks @Youseethethingis - I feel so upset the damage she is doing to the kids. The damage is so clear to see with the oldest.

That’s really good advice @embracelife

Thanks

All sounds so tough, and I've no advice to add to wants been given. But I do have older teens and would say the difference between age 14 and 16/17ish is huge in terms of their capacity to see the world as less black and white and understand that people they live may also have flaws. So don't give up hope of the older one starting to have more of her own view on things in the next few years. Yes you're right not to bitch about her mum to her, but to be honest, dispationate and focus on actions any how she must be "finding things hard".

@breakfastpizza - no one is suggesting he stops paying maintenance altogether. But you can bet your ass if he stopped it for two months she'd be singing a different tune. Op & her dh sound great & defo the bigger people in all this, but their IS an argument for him calling her out/bluff by saying "no visits no money".
My exdp's exw was very similar - never stopped him seeing the kids but constantly used money & the kids to get at exdp; one Christmas she didn't buy them one single thing & told them it was because their father was spending all his money on me & my kids!!! He was advised by both his solicitor & his counsellor to not pay her a penny over what the agreed maintenance was. When he asked both "what about the kids" they both said the ex/the situation needed to hit rock bottom before it could get any better & that while it might be hard for the kids (all teens) exdp could not protect them from the reality of their mother's behaviour forever. He did it for a while & then capitulated & by the time we spilt he was putting one child though uni with no financial help from ex & giving her 500 a week for two other kids & she was still looking for more. My point is that people like that will never stop unless they are stood up to. They use the kids as weapons and sometimes the best thing to do is fight fire with fire.

@NorthernSpirit this sounds horrific. I just can’t understand what motivates mothers to do this.

Agree at 14 the dd is still quite young, by the time she is 16+ she will understand more of the world. Can’t come soon enough.

@Magda72 that financial situation for your ex just sounds brutal.

I wonder whether stopping paying any maintenance will play into her hands..
Am so sorry you are going through this. Fingers crossed for this weekend and for a court hearing before Christmas OP.

People who use their children as pawns are the lowest of the low.

OP the one thing in your DH’s favour is that the ex has put all her vitriol in writing, so it won’t be a case of he said,she said if it comes to court. And if she’s written back to the solicitor along similar lines I would imagine there is potential for her to be in real trouble, although at fourteen I imagine that it’s a bit old for the judge to award residency to the father.

What I would say though is that it’s ok at this stage for him to at the very least bring to the kids’ attention that this isn’t because he doesn’t want to see them, but because their mum is preventing it. It’s possible to do this without being completely brutal but by telling the truth at the same time.

I second what someone else said about his turning up at the house to collect them, because then if the mother kicks off they will see first hand what she’s like.

A friend’s DH had similar issues with his ex. She refused to let him see the kids, would demand them back at short notice only to then dump them at her mother’s and they would be on the phone to him within half an hour saying they were bored and she’d gone out. He went to court and residency was agreed but as in the case of your DH, she went against the court orders on numerous occasions. In the end the children gradually wised up to the kind of person she was because her vitriol was so open she couldn’t even keep it from the kids, and one by one they moved out and in with friend/her dh. Now they’re all adults and have no contact with her. And she is all alone with no relationship and no family as they’ve all disowned her as well.

She's a nasty vindictive woman bullying everyone around her - hope you get it sorted.

Thanks everyone for your words.....

Quick update - he went to pick up the kids yesterday and they weren’t at home. He gets a call 5 mins after pick up time from the youngest to say they are in town with their mum and he can pick them up from their.

Her control is no ending.

So at least he gets to see the kids this weekend but this probably isn’t the end of it.

He’s promised to speak to the kids today.

He telephoned Cafcass abs they wouldn’t help. Also phoned social services to speak to them about the emotional abusive and parental alienation - they said they couldn’t help and Court was his only action. I really feel for him - no one seems to want to support or help.

He’s going to apply for breaching the CO - he’s done this 4 x before and she gets a slap on the wrist but it’s gone to far this time and it’s all in writing.

She’s a nasty vindictive woman who uses her own children as weapons. I hope the kids realise in time.

Calmly tell the children that their dad is being lied about BUT he is not going to say anything bad about their mum as that would only upset them, they shouldn’t be involved in that type of scenario

Tell them if their mum does say things about him they don’t want to hear they can and are allowed to tell her to stop

Arm them carefully with the ability to stop the propaganda

Hopefully you OH has kept texts on phone. Phone police 101 to report them. This is malicious communication, DV coercion and control and harassment.

Similar situation for my DH though he had never reduced CMS and always paid for extras, ExP just always wanted more but knew if she went to CSA as she had in the past they would reduce the amount paid. Keeping the children from him to extort money was her MO These were the list of charges the police wanted to arrest her for.

When I went to the police I had no idea what if any crime she was committed just knew what she was doing was wrong. My DH decided not to press charges but I think the shock would have made her stop and take notice as she was always concerned about third parties' opinions of her.

As it was after years of abuse from her a Parenting Plan which included everything from contact to treating each other with respect at all times, not making negative comments to DCs about other parent etc etc stopped the abusive texts though she thinks she has "won" as DSC do not visit as often. However DSC are no longer forced by her to witness conflict between parents which makes their lives much calmer.

OP -the DCS will.
Mine is the reverse an arse EX who drops in when he feels like, no regular contact - does pay some maintenance ( we will avoid that subject!) DCs love him - because i have never bad mouthed him ( once the day after one of my parents dies). Their time with him comes after his other DC and fits around his other Ex.

13 yr old was grumpy as the other week, found him crying in my room buried under the duvet. He was sobbing his heart out - then it all spewed forth - Dad was a Sh*t, he did not do, care, made no effort he saw how much I did to make them available, cancelled holidays for his last minute shit, etc etc - he understood it all and more, including stuff I did not know about.
It was heartbreaking but he got it. Admitting that one of your parents really does treat you like the last thing in his world is so hard. in his world it isl
Dad, ExDP2, their joint DC, work, her DCs, her parents, his parents, mates - and finally his 2 DCs.

Don't give up, just be ready to listen, accept some home truths from your DPs side aswell, because their perception is very different to ours. It will happen.

I definitely agree with pp, that at 11 and 14 the children are old enough to be presented with the facts. They are old enough to understand that if there father is made redundant or has a lower paying job, that means he has less money and therefore cant pay as much, they are old enough to understand that there father also has to pay for his own home and therefore literally cant give there mum their entire wage. They will be aware that there mum is also responsible for working for them as very likely many of there friends have mums who work who still have comfortable lives.
I obviously wouldn't suggest going as far as slander or insulting there mother, but they are old enough to understand the facts and think logically about them.

I hope this weekend went well for you OP.

The children won’t suffer if money is withheld, if she is really dependent on this money surely any self respecting mother would put her child’s best interests at heart and let him see them.

If not she is willing to put her own bitterness and greed in front of the welfare of her own children she isn’t fit to have the little ones and that’s another issue in itself.

Obviously you're a stranger to me, online, I've only got what you write to go by.

But if this is the genuine whole truth etc, then I'm so sorry. And it's parents like her who give other single parents a bad name.

I went through hell with my ex partner. He did everything he could go reduce the money he had to pay for my child. And is been left destitute and reliant on stage benefits which weren't much at that point. But when his contact was advised to be stopped and he stopped paying his fiver a week (this from a man with inherited millions and lots of assets, shame on him) I didn't fight it. This year I had his arrears written off because I don't want anything to do with him after what he did to my child and myself.

Going through the court order is the best option I can think of. It sounds like he's tried doing things properly. Court costs money but he cannot be expected to maintain the original payments.

What a nasty cow! I hope you can get this sorted.

Hi @NorthernSpirit have read your posts on other threads and I’m horrified that the ex has stopped contact again. How was the weekend with the children? Hope everything goes okay

Thanks for all your support & messages.

As I said in my earlier post, my OH desperate to see the kids caved into her blackmail and paid the original higher amount of maintenance (despite the CMS calculation and a solicitors letter).

He saw the kids that weekend and sat them down and explained to them (without badmouthing the mum) that contact and maintenance are complementary separate and their mum shouldn’t be discussing maintenance with them or stopping them seeing him.

For the first time he told them that he she’s them because he has taken their mum to court because she wouldn’t let him see them.

The older girl (apparently - I wasn’t there) didn’t react.

The younger boy got upset.

We had them this weekend and everything was fine.

Despite a court order specifying Christmas contact she had told him he was picking the kids up on the 28th, and they were to be returned on the 1st.

Turns out she’s going away from NY so he’s been allowed to have them longer.

I wonder when this will end. The 14 YO shows no signs of making her own decisions or lessening the control the mother has.

The reality is that there’s no money left to pay the large amount of maintenance so if she stops contact in the NY my OH will take her back to court again.

It’s really exhausting and I really feel for dads who want to be involved but are prevented by bitter, twisted EW’s. Let’s hope karma really does exist.

Happy Christmas all x