My DH's Girls

[pauline987]

Brand new so please be gentle 🙈

My husband has 2 daughters that we are supposed to see every 2nd weekend, and on an Adhoc basis for tea a couple of nights through the week. Nothing was ever set in stone for these weekday visits, he just used to text their mum and ask what night(s) they were free and he could have them that week. They never sleep over during the week, always dropped home to go to bed

They are 12yo and 8yo. Since the eldest got a mobile last year, the ex has completely stepped back from arranging contact and he now has to text his daughter. The contact times were becoming very hit and miss and they were constantly arranging to come, then texting that day saying nothing more than "don't pick us up, we're not coming now"

Same thing was happening with weekends. They kept cancelling for birthday parties, or being "ill" but then the eldest would be posting snap chat stories of them bouncing on trampolines, or at the park, or having sleepovers at friends houses, clearly not ill.

He misses them very much. He sat them down and tried to find out what was going on. They said there weren't upset about anything and couldn't name any issues we could fix, they just kept shrugging and saying they didn't want to come and their mum doesn't make them anymore, so they don't come

He thought the constant chopping and changing was the problem, so he went to a lawyer to try and put some sort of structure in place. He asked for every Monday for tea (dropped home) then every Thursday he would pick them up from mums on his way home from work, and we would have them till a Saturday afternoon. DH doesn't work on a Friday so could do school drop off/pick up. Then he also said they had the option to stay over on the Saturday too sometimes if they wanted to

This went down like a lead balloon with his ex. This started almost a year ago, and Long story short, we are currently in court (final hearing in September)

We havent seen the youngest daughter for over 6 weeks, and have seen the eldest very sporadically in that time. She came 2 weekends ago and it ended with her calling her mums boyfriend to come and pick her up after blowing up at DH, blaming him for the whole situation, saying he couldn't make them come and demanding to know why he had to try and change everything.

There is a person from the court coming out to talk to his eldest about what she wants and she was saying she was going to tell them that that his younger daughter hates him and they don't want to see him at all 😔

They are supposed to be here tonight and he got a text from eldest at 3pm saying "Incase you haven't worked it out. We're not coming" so they aren't here again.

He is at breaking point. He is so sad. He loves them so much, and just wants to see them and be a part of their lives. We literally cannot work out what has gone so wrong. We used to have a great relationship. We saw them regularly, we took them on holidays, we haven't changed anything. We were abroad with them for 2 weeks at Easter. All smiles, happy and chatty while we were there, I actually thought we had turned a corner. But then as soon as we came home they just disappeared again, went back to cancelling and hardly coming over. It was fine till last year when his ex stopped communicating with him and put his daughter in charge

He has tried to speak to his ex about taking back control of the arrangements, but she just says no, and that she can't make them come

Any mums out there on the other side of this who can shed some light on how to move forward?

Sorry, just to add. He did try to talk to his ex before he went to the lawyer. She wouldn't communicate with him and basically said there was nothing she could do.

He didn't just spring the lawyer on them out of the blue

What do they do when they go to yours? If all they are getting out of it is tea and a boring weekend then of course they’ll want to stay at home where their mum takes them to visit friends etc. I suggest DH moves his request to 1 or 2 midweek overnighters - maybe the girls will agree to it if it doesn’t cut into their social life.

And every Thurs-Sat is a massively unreasonable request if the girls don’t even want to spend the day with your DH. At 12 and 8 and with such strong feelings he has to tread carefully otherwise the court will rule towards them and he’ll see even less of them.

It's really unfair of his ex to let the girls make up their own mind - it sounds like there's a bit of a battlefield there. It's very cruel for them to treat their dad like that.

the constant chopping and changing was the issue but going in with THurs-Sat EVERY week was just too much. And it has pushed them over the edge

It is difficult and extremely unfair to expect the 12 year old to arrange contact for herself AND for her younger sister.

At 12 I can understand kids at that age want to see their friends etc but the 8 year should be having regular contact with the father and is likely going along with what her older sister wants.

Hope you get this sorted OP. Cannot imagine the pain your husband is going through but him pushing so much may actually be pushing his daughters away further.

Does he let them have friends over when he has them? Still go to parties if they are on?
Basically is it like another home or like a 'visit'.
I can understand girls wouldn't want to be forced each week to sit in.

Hi there,
I’m no expert but I do have a step daughter of my own, I’m also the daughter of a broken home and remember a lot of how I felt and behaved when I was that age!
I would say at first read, it sounds as though these young girls may feel a little out-of-control, maybe it’s accumulated mixed feelings that have been building over time (from the situation and not necessarily directed anger and frustration at your husband because he’s the sole cause or anything) they may not truly like the new freedom they have to make the decision to visit or not, loyalty to their mum (even if she has always encouraged visitation) could be quite a bit of pressure in their world;
There’s likely a few things going on for your pre-teen that may not even know how to unscramble how she’s feeling or why, hormones could also be a factor, she’s maybe feeling a responsibility in making decisions for her younger sibling? without knowing you all it’s impossible to guess but perhaps your really genuinely good intentions of pursuing official access has added to a bit of a tug of war in which the girls feel caught up in. I would maybe next time you are faced with ‘you can’t make us see you’ you try and take the approach that ‘no you’re absolutely right we can’t, but we love seeing you and so if there’s anything at all that we can do to make that easier for you then please let us know and we’ll try our best’ kind of thing... a step back, release the pressure with a message that they are loved and welcome whenever they like can go a long way; they’ll appreciate you respecting their decisions and involving them in how to make it work, if they’re not ready maybe they need a little space, but a nice calm consistent stable approach will pay off in the long run. I can honestly say (without bragging!) we have a wonderful relationship with my step daughter (sadly not so much her mum but not through us not wanting that to work -we tried!) I admire how my husband has handled all the challenges, I admire my step daughter and how she has handled everything; it’s really really tough for all in these situations I feel for the dads, the mums, the step parents and the children; all children need (and want) a loving relationship with their parents, there’s hurdles but you’ll get over them; if there is/has been any talk in front of or with the girls regarding access/their mum/any questioning maybe they find that just a bit too much and are avoiding coming because they just want to be kids? Sorry for the HUGE post, I’d just say try stepping back and loosening the grip (in a positive way) like you’re on their side and their feelings (however hurtful they seem at this moment) count, sometimes it’s hard to let go a bit when you feel like they’re slipping from you already but worth a try? x

I would have friends over both houses and if a party was when I was at my dad's then I still stayed at his he just picked me up and dropped me off to it.

It's just part of the girls growing up and wanting to spend more time with their friends.

The 12 year old will be having a social life now and not want to miss out on things just to visit her dad. Even if they still lived as a family he'd see a lot less of her. She'd be in her room or visiting friends.

He made a mistake trying to insist on set days if they were already reluctant IMO. The girls should see him because they want to not because they're forced to.

Thanks for the replies. I will try to answer everything.

They unfortunately can't stay over midweek. They live a 20 minute drive away. DH starts work at 6am, and I have to drop my daughter at the bus stop, drop son at breakfast club and be at work for 8.30am, so I can't take them to school. The only way it would be possible would be getting them up really early so that I could drop them home to their mum before I dropped my own kids off, but I think that would be really unfair on the girls, having to drag them out of bed that early when they have a full day of school ahead of them

The really confusing thing is that I don't think they find it boring here. Apart from the last time when eldest blew up, when they are actually here, they seem really happy here, it's getting them to actually come that's an issue.

I have a daughter the same age as his, and a son who is 7. The older girls are completely different, they don't have a lot in common, his daughter is very girly, she is very very into, and influenced by, makeup/clothes/nails etc and always knows what's on trend, whereas my daughter is very sporty, lives in football strips and has no interest in those things, but they don't dislike each other, they just kind of do their own thing. My son and his youngest get on like a house on fire. We do normal family things when they are here, cinema, trips out etc

They have never actually asked to bring a friend from home with them to stay, but they have friends who live here. They used to live here too and went to school here before they moved 20mins away (4 years ago now). They have kept these friendships and they play out and go to friends houses when they are here. The eldests best friend actually lives directly across the street. My daughter saw his eldest coming out of her best friends house the other night, we don't know if she stayed over or if she just spent the day there, she would normally always come and say hello if she was there visiting her friend but she didn't come near

I would like to think the see this as another home instead of visits (or at least used to). They used to share a bedroom. We have a 4 bed house, that had a living room and another sitting room downstairs, we converted the sitting room into another bedroom so that they could have their own rooms.

They are very much part of the family and their feelings and opinions are taken into account. At the beginning of last year their mum contacted my DH (she was still the one arranging contact at the time) and said the girls were fed up having to get up early on a Saturday morning when they were with us to go to my DDs football games and that they wanted a long lie. We didn't know they felt like this and when we spoke to them, it turned out the youngest liked coming to football, it was just the eldest that didn't. So DH stopped coming to games and stayed home with his eldest while me, my son and his youngest went to watch.

I totally agree that it's wrong for the eldest to be left in charge of contact. It's one of the things that's been brought up in court. Unfortunately DH and his ex are not on good terms at all

His younger daughter is actually the one that is more averse to coming over so I don't actually think the eldest is influencing her. DH regularly used to arrive to pick them up and it would only be the eldest that would come out. She'd get in the car and tell DH that only she was coming, youngest was staying with mum

We were always very flexible if they have parties etc on weekends they are with us. One of us always took them, they didn't miss out.

Also meant to add that the reason he went for Thur and Fri over night was that he could take them to/fetch them from school on the Friday, and by dropping them home on the Saturday they would still have most of the weekend free to spend how they wanted. But the option was there for them to stay with us on the Saturday too if they had something planned with their friends here

The thing that sticks out for me from you posts is that for contact time you used to make your step-DC wake up & get up to go with you all to watch your daughter play football.

Did it honestly not occur to you that a child who gets very little one-on-one time with their dad wouldn't want to spend their contact time watching a child who gets to live with their father playing sport?

The girls have been visiting for years to see their dad.

Has your DP ensured quality one-on-one time, just him & them on these visits, or have they always had to share him with your children (who he lives with & sees daily presumably)?

I’m so shocked they used to spend Sat mornings watching your daughter play football!!! How awful when they could have been off spending quality time with their dad instead?! The contact arrangement suggestions seem to be all about what is best for you and their dad, but what is best for the girls?? Would they actually like to go home to their Mum’s house on a Friday evening to chill out? Would they prefer spending Sat mornings doing something else or just pottering around with Mum? Maybe they’d like to do a different day/ time. You should ask them openly.

Didn't read all the police but what stands out to me is
Why the hell would a mother let her 12 act on her behalf and for an 8 year old. Children do have some choices but to act as a rude grown up when she isn't able to understand the damage she is causing is extremely bad parenting from the mother.

Your dp on the other hand went in to strong to a situation that was already a mess. Asking for such a long period of time when he hasn't had that before and couldn't manage to convince the dc to come for tea.
It was selfish and to heavy handed.

You dp needs to have a proper think about what he's done, apologise for going heavy hands and request one day for tea and a sleep over.

It's extremely unfair on the dc's

They do (or did) have time on their own with him. DH didn't used to come to football. on the Saturdays the girls were with us, they had all day on their own with him, either at home or he would take them somewhere

When he used to get them through the week he would often take them to his mums for tea, so he they only really spent Friday night with me and my kids, which as I said, they all get on.

It was the girls who originally asked to come to football. the youngest loved coming. When given the choice of staying home with dad or coming to football with me and my son, she chose to keep coming with me. As soon as we found out the eldest wasn't happy, DH stopped coming with me and stayed home with her again. He would spend time with her, he would take her to the shops, take her to have her nails done or stay home and watch YouTube etc, we would them all meet up in town, so he could care like t the youngest from me. We would all go for lunch somewhere then he would leave with them to take them home

@Cloudyyy we have asked them openly. They just shrugged their shoulders. Please don't think they havent been considered, they very much have been

The times he asked for were basically to try and free up as much of their weekends as possible, while still maintaining a relationship with them

They used to be with us every second weekend, Friday night till Sunday night. But as they were getting older, it was getting more impractical for them, they were being taken home on Saturdays a lot instead of Sundays due to friends parties and sleepovers, play dates etc. So as nothing was set in stone for contact and it was very much arranged by a text on a Monday saying "when am I seeing the girls this week?" Before it all kicked off, it had unofficially morphed into them being picked up by DH every Friday and dropped home on the Saturday.

It was their mum who decided it had to go back to every 2nd weekend Friday to Sunday, she changed it back just before she handed control of the situation over to his daughter

@hopefulandstrong that's e a toy how I feel about it.

His daughter should be er have been out in charge of it, but his ex doesn't see an issue with it and just won't communicate with him. She just doesn't reply

He thought he was doing the right thing by trying to firm up contact arrangements, both to maintain a relationship, and take that responsibility away from his daughter as everyone would then know exactly what was happening on what days

It obviously hasn't worked out

I just don't know how to fix it

So the youngest won’t come are you sure nothing was the catalyst to that it seems odd that one minute she was happy the next not figured that out is the starting point

I actually think he is doing the right thing in taking legal measures, if you had posted on here that contact had been stopped and he'd done nothing about it there would have been comments criticising him for not going to court. They are too young to be given the option to opt out of a relationship with one of their parents and he is right not to accept that IMO.

The mistake he has made is not attempting to enforce the original agreement of EOW. Asking for every week Thurs to Sat was guaranteed to cause resentment and anger, it also means they don't get a full weekend with their mum to do stuff, go away etc. At this point there is so much animosity he may need to compromise on what he wants, even if necessary giving up on overnights for a while and just ensuring he gets some kind of regular contact so he can hopefully work on his relationship with them.

They are supposed to be here tonight and he got a text from eldest at 3pm saying "Incase you haven't worked it out. We're not coming"

Cheeky little madam ! Sadly some women do use their children to still "get at " their ex.

@Quartz2208 I honestly can't think of anything.

She didn't just suddenly stop coming, she was always quite hit and miss. When she actually came she was happy as Larry here, but getting her here has always been more of a struggle than the eldest. The eldest often came alone.

She slowly came less and less, but since the last court date 6 weeks ago we haven't seen her at all

The youngest is very much a mummies girl. My DH says she had been like that since birth. I think it may be more about being away from her mum that her having a problem being here

@GlitchStitch I completely agree! They should bever have been put in the position of being allowed to choose what was happening.

In hindsight maybe he should have gone for every second weekend.

I've been with him 6 years and I'm that time they had every other weekend for about 3 years (2 nights, Fri-Sun) they then were here every Friday night for 2 years (1 night, Fri-Sat) then his ex changed it back to every other weekend shortly before she handed the control over to his daughter

Ive seen similar situations time and time again. It may be that this has nothing to do with you, and anyone trying to blame you for making your SD wake up on a Saturday is ridiculous. Please remember that when you post something, we only know about 5% of your story so a lot is hit and miss. I can very well be wrong, but a lot of the things you write tells me its very possible they are being influenced by someone. Have a read online about manipulation or parental alienation. Its unfortunately very common where the resident parent influences the child(ren) to reject the nonresident parent.

Please do understand that the term PA is still controversial and also comes in different levels. Some parents take it very far and go full on abuse, and some may "only" make negative comments in front of the children of the other parent. Either way, children feel a pressure to choose between their parents and reject one. Its also very common that the resident parent will blame the child and say that its the child that doesnt want to come. not mentioning its because of their pressure ! Especially that age of the 12 year old, as the court will take their "wishes" into consideration. Either way both of the kids are far too young to decide as at that young age they dont have emotional maturity to be able to make an unbiased decision of what is good for them, and therefore shouldn't be allowed to choose to come or not. Your partner needs to nip this in the bud now.

I will PM you some more advice. I have a lot of experience in this, sadly!

I am watching with interest as we have a similar situation unfolding, after a year of happily blending, my step children have said out of the blue that they no longer wish to see their father. Their Dad is so hurt and confused and it seems to be driven by his 14yr old DD. The latest instalment is that she wishes him and I to sit with her and agree to a list of conditions if access is to restart. Mediation options are being explored and my heart breaks for my DP - I feel for you, I really did think we had done all we could to build a happy home life and I am bewildered at the about face. I have no idea what to do or any advice but you are not alone, it’s a minefield.

I suspect parental alienation is a factor as my DPs relationship with his ex is very difficult but when the children are old enough to state a preference how do you tease that out? Lord knows

Hugs to you x