DSS is adamant he wants nothing to do with us.

[justanotherunhappysoul]

DSS 11, been with DH 10 years. Had pretty steady uninterrupted access since DSS was a baby. All of a sudden DSS has got very angry with DH and is adamant that he wants nothing more to do with DH or myself.
He lists the following reasons -

1. He feels abandoned by DH, he split with his mum when they were expecting. (DH is DSS's biggest cheerleader, always wanting more access, taking him to sports etc, pays maintenance and helps out more when needed. Supported DSS's mum 100% for 5 years so she could SAHM while DSS was little) so yes understand why he would feel like that but DH not an absent father.
2. He doesn't feel he gets time alone with his dad so is angry with me, he feels I get in the way of his time with dad (typical weekend, dH picks him up from school, I get home around 6/7, eat dinner/watch movie all together, or go out to eat, Saturday boys go to footie, I don't always go, sometimes stay home to catch up, afternoon generally family activity like bowling/movies, or dinner out. Boys stay up watching footie, I go to bed) so I think he gets lots of 1 on 1 time, but maybe I'm wrong.
3. He thinks we are unhappy and argue all the time. (He has witnessed one brief spat over picnic food, 4 weeks ago which was quickly resolved by kissing and making up. We were both tired and stressed) so I'm not sure where this comes from.

He has gone from a loving, relaxed boy who loved being with us. This has happened over a 4 week period, crying when with us begging his mum to collect him. To now refusal to see us. DH went to meet him and those were his reasons. What do we do now? Any experience?

That does sound like he has quality one on one time with his dad. I wonder if the picnic incident has got blown out of proportion in his head and he thinks as you two have argued you are going to split up ?

Hormones? What's your DHs relationship like with his ex, DSSs mother? Can she suggest what's going on?

It sounds as if he’s just becoming more aware of adult relationships. Possibly he feels angry on behalf of his mum. No child wants to think that their mum was abandoned by the Dad.

I think your DH needs to allow him to feel this and say sorry. He did leave his mum at a vulnerable time. Your DH needs to show him he understands and his sons anger is legitimate. I wouldn’t be trying to say otherwise. However he will always love him and be there for him.

You don't say whether your DH had split up with DSS's DM before or after you came on the scene, but could it be in someway that he (rightly or wrongly) attributes his parents not raising him together as your fault? (Not saying it is, just trying to see what may have set this off).

Have any of his friend's parents split up recently & if so we're other parties involved?

Maybe it is just hormones, or it could just be that he's reaching that age where he's starting to compare his family with other families & is wishing he didn't have to split his life across 2 homes.

He may rationally realise that you're not going to just disappear & his parents won't ever live together with him, but teenagers aren't always the most rational of beings!

His heart could be ruling him more than his head at the moment, and you just have to ride this phase out.

It might not sound like it but you/your OH are lucky that he actually found the nerves to tell you his reasons. Now you have two choices: get annoyed, tell him his reasons are wrong and put your energy in proving him wrong in his assertions; or you can accept what he says and try to understand why he would feel this way and consider that there might be some sense behind his reasons and use his opening up to consider how your OH/you can implement change.

If you focus on proving him wrong, you might as well say good bye becausexfrom his perspective, you'll have proven his point. Trying to understand where he's coming from doesn't mean agreeing to everything and making changes that just suit him but at least moving forward in a way that makes him want to be there.

I agree with Bananas. At this age I became aware of the fact my step mother was the other woman and wanted nothing to do with her, didn't even want her looking at my dad's house. And I was pissed off at my dad he would do that to my mum.

I think he could do with a little more one on one time tbh. You sound like you're present for most of each day he's there.

DH, didn't leave DSS's mum in a vulnerable position, they split mutually. I wasn't the OW.
DSS's mums opinion, is that no wonder DSS doesn't want to visit, when are constantly at each other throats and on the brink of collapse. (Her interpretation of what DSS has told her) nothing could be further from the truth.
I appreciate if this was a new relationship and I'd moved into the family home - it would be upsetting for DSS. But we've just had birthday's - best dad ever and thanks for being the best step mum sentiments written in cards, happy to spend time with both or either of us as individuals. To a complete stand off and refusal to spend time with us.
I'm not really sure what else I can do to be less present when DSS is here, I don't want it to seem like I am avoiding him. But happy to give them time alone, but it's not like I can disappear entirely.
At this stage he is refusing to come, so we give him space or force the issue ?!

If that is what DSS has told his mum it is obviously a huge issue in his eyes, he probably thinks you shouldn't be arguing at all (he is young). It seems like quite a big tow for him to get that impression and relay it back to his mum.

Perhaps you could go away to a spa for a weekend or something and let him spend the whole time with his dad? Or they could go out together for the whole day without you?

Definitely hormones.

@HannahHut it was a very brief spat, a few cross words. Then we got on with it. Certainly not anything to write home about.
He has witnessed big rows at his mums, now NC with her parents and a separation from a partner which resulted in a court order.
I'm happy for the boys to go away, but don't really see why I should make myself scarce from my own house. Nor do I see the value in a spa weekend alone, just to give them space.

My BF thinks hormones.....

Ask him what he wants, what would he like changed.
Not saying he should get what he wants but it's a good start for a discussion and there may be a compromise to be made.

That’s so sad :( our DSS will be 11 before the year is out and we’d be heartbroken if they didn’t want to see us anymore. We try hard to give the DSCs v clear boundaries though and I don’t think it would occur to them to ask to be somewhere different because they know we’d refuse.

Will you persist with insisting that he still comes over and just try to work through the phase?

I would not recommend making a massive fuss. Yoyr dh should reassure him thst the argument was a one off offer an activity of 1.1 time every two weeks and leave it. I yjink excessive hand wringing will feed it. Kids can be very ott at this age.

Definitely sounds like he's seen that picnic incident in a bit of a different light! Possibly because of his mum's split and court order from a former partner? He may be projecting that onto your argument and thinking you will split now too.

I think it’s good that he’s been able to get his reasons out. I think that at this stage, he needs lots of reassurance that he is loved (by both of you).
I think his need for space needs to be respected. And at this stage I would suggest that your DH tries to spend 121 time with him, even starting with something as simple as grabbing a pizza with him/ watching the footie for a few hours.

Remove the pressure of making him think he needs to do anything. And your DH just consistently needs to tell he loves him and try and spend time with him. Even if they are a few odd hours here and there.

I think that at this age a few things can happen.

1. he’s more aware of what goes on between adults (sex) and how babies are made. So he knows his mum and dad did that. And he knows his dad and you do that.
2. he’s suddenly become more protective of his mum. And she may have done absolutely nothing to trigger this
3. hormones which compound these feelings.

Give him time and space with lots of consistent reassurance that he is loved and will always be loved.

Oh I don't doubt it was little, don't get me wrong! I just meant he's probably perceived it as a huge row if that's what he's used to. I agree on sitting him down and talking with him, or maybe with just his dad.

I still think time alone is important though and it's his house too, sorry.

My son turned 11 this summer and started secondary in sept. He seemed to morph overnight from a child into a teenager with a tendency towards sulkiness and being moody, "im not a child you know mum etc".
He might be struggling with the leap from primary to secondary and in my experience his mum may be poisoning his ear/fanning the flames.
Dad should talk to him and ask why he feels like that, then sit back and give him space but letting him know he is always welcome/you are always there. He will grow out of it. It's hard but not much else you can do.

I’m sorry but I don’t think he should be forced to do anything. Give this situation a few weeks to calm down.

If either of my DC did this, I wouldn’t force them (immediately) to do anything. And I have a very amicable 60/40 shared contact with my EXH. He and I would try and get to the bottom of the ‘why’ whilst giving lots of reassurances.
If more than a fortnight passed and we were at a stalemate then I would pronto get us into counselling.

Psychologically (I am not saying this is really the situation, but this is my best guess at how he feels) He has just at 11started to think about the fact that his Dad left when he was little, and is wondering what this means about him (not good enough?) And then the picnic argument triggered this insecurity and he wants out so that he is not ‘left’ again by you or his dad or blamed for the split.

Also, teen boys can have a period of not wanting to be around their Mums, I’m guessing this happens with step mums too or more so?

The best thing your dh could do is show he is listening and not going anywhere - carve out some true 1:1 time, let dss stay home some weekends if he wants to see his mates instead, phone him regularly and routinely invite him to stay or do family things but no guilt trips if he doesn’t want to.

One interpretation could be hes seen relationship problems at his mums and thatyours has always been his safe place. now he's seen the row at yours blown it all out if proportion, realised that his dad left his mum once and so could leave you. And so now his safe place is insecure and he no longer trusts his dad. Throw in some hormones and it's all blown up bigger than the initial incident. You both need to find ways to build up his trust again. I don't think it would be the issue it is if he hadn't felt yours was his safe place in the first place, which is a good start Xx

As a SM on MN your very presence in the house will be referred to in a negative light - despite the reality being that you have been around for 10 out of his 11 yrs .
Imho you already give a very reasonable amount of space to your DS and his dad. Anymore and you will feel like a stranger in your own house and DS will definitely think you and his dad no linger want to spend time together. !

Spa break ? Ffs - who wants to spend money on a hotel break just to 'be out of the way'. Why do posters constantly think it's perfectly ok to encourage SM's to pretend they don't exist - whenever the Sc is upset in some way ?

It's not acceptable.

You are Husband and wife. Your home is yours to share. You have been a presence in your SS life since before he could walk . No you bloody don't apologise for your existence and slink off to some hotel. You face this together. He has never known you two as anything other than together. You carry on as you always have giving him 'dad' time and hoping that at some point he gets over himself.

Font what absolute rubbish - no one has suggested SM is bad, exits stage left, slinks off etc - absolute complete SM paranoia and blame the Mum completely unnecessary change in tone.

Everyone else has been so helpful and insightful.

OP - my 11 yr old resents the ground hid father walks on right now. His understanding of what happened between my EX and I has changed. He feels his father rejected him when he left. It almost flipped over night. It is most definitely hormonal and I can only say reassurance, reassurance and do not change your patterns of behaviour. I have had a lot of very adult conversations about relationships in the past two months - do not underestimate what he has picked up on.
Talk to Mum - sounds your DH and her have a good parenting relationship and they need to work as a team to sort this out. Not removing you from the equation but he needs something from his "parents" to reassure him.

At the moment he won't talk to us. DH has offered to take him to some sports things, but of business as usual approach. But he is adamant that he wants nothing more to do with him/us. Also starting to refuse to go to school, as he is so upset by what a terrible father DH is. Also being made worse, by DSS's mum abusing DH - saying he's not stepping up and being a complete waste of space. Always was, always has been made worse the minute he got involved with me.

He has witnessed big rows at his mums, now NC with her parents and a separation from a partner which resulted in a court order.

So in his limited view of the world arguments are really scary and possibly your (by your standards silly and overrated quickly) argument has triggered a whole load of anxiety for him.
Coupled with the natural stage he is going through age 11- a more social perspective of the world and of relationships- he has come to some slightly mismatched versions of what he believed his life to be and what he NOW thinks of his life and his/your/dad/mum relationship.
Firstly I (and by I really I mean his dad- you need to support his dad but step back at this stage) would be thanking him for his clear explanations of what he thinks the problems are and ask him what he would like to happen next. Reassure him there is nothing he could do to stop dad/you from loving him and that you want him to feel comfortable and happy in both his homes. Give him as much power as you can while gently upholding the family boundaries of respect. In hearing him and acknowledging that this IS his version of his reality instead of getting bogged down in trying to show him he is wrong- and being defensive (sorry, but you are) then you will both have a chance of keeping this relationship with what sounds like a mature and switched on young man.