Feeling sad on DPs behalf

[ChipssAndGravy]

DPs DC always tell him how much they can't wait to go home (to their mothers) or they will ask him excitedly who's house they are staying at tonight and when he says ours they will act disappointed.

It breaks his heart and I feel so awful for him.

I know people here may ask 'well what makes them feel that way' and may not believe when I say I really can't think of anything.

They are here 3 nights a week, he's a brilliant father and they do love him. I think they are just very close to their mother. When they aren't thinking about it they have a real laugh together.

Me and my DP have been together for quite some time and I get on with them really well so it's not to do with me/ dad having a new partner so far as I'm aware.

The youngest (7) sometimes gets very upset when we pick him up from his mum's but afterwards when we get home he's fine and we have a really good time together.

The oldest (9) is a bit more sensitive about it now and doesn't do it as much.

Once a while back the youngest was crying when we picked him up and when we asked him why we managed to get out of him that his mum had said how much she was going to miss him because she'll be at home on her own. He felt very bad about leaving her after that.

They've just asked me where they were staying tonight whilst DP was in another room and when I said here they got very huffy and said they wanted to stay at mummy's. Maybe I shouldn't have but I just said to them 'please do not say that infront of Daddy anymore, it's very mean and makes him sad'.

I know they can of course have a preference as to where they'd like to stay as they get older but it just breaks my heart for DP. He loves them with every fiber in his body and I can see it kills him when they act like they don't want to see him.

Quartz2208 I was referring to the distance away from our homes when I said I didn't know if that made a difference as in 'im not sure if this is relevant but...'

I do get what you're saying and will try and bring it up with DP. I think contact time is quite sensitive a sensitive subject. I often worry that it's not my place to suggest things like that.

You know what i would do in your shoes is you and DP together sit the DC down and tell them you’ve noticed they aren’t altogether happy with the arrangements and ask what they think would make them feel better about being at dads. That is an open ended question that leaves room for them to share their feelings. they may want an extra night with Mum, or they may just want reassurance from Mum that she isn’t sitting alone under a solitary light bulb while they are at yours. Or maybe they want to bring some of their favourite things from mums to your house. Who knows but you and DP listen, acknowledge, thank them for sharing their feelings, and then tell them you and dad will see what you can do because you only want them to be happy.

I think they need to learn empathy for their father. They clearly have it for their mother.
I think OP has shown that they need to be sensitive to other people- men and women. Otherwise they are only learning that women have emotions and need to be looked after. Actually, men do too and they should be allowed to express them and have others show them empathy.

OP it sounds like you have a lovely set up and really care for the children. Well done xxx

Of course the mum is sad when alone, that’s ok for her to express. But what the children do need is reassurance that it is ok to love their parents equally and know that they are loved- so their absence will upset both parents when they are with the other.
Without that they grow up very self centred and ignorant.

OP I suspect actually you are a very good step mother then who has suspected that its the lack of a base that is causing the issue - its not your place to say to them but as his partner I think you can say to your DP that its clear something is going on and he needs to talk to them and see if solution can be found that suits them - and thats the important part not Mum, not Dad but them

Op is part of it that the children don’t fully understand the plans? If they are continually asking where they are sleeping they might be continually confused. I wonder if there is any way to help them learn the rhythm better. Eg my four year old DSD is now a dab hand at counting sleeps. As in three sleeps at dads then so many at mums then back to dads ....

Thanks all. I can and do see that I should have taken a different approach with this. I suspect it isn't the first or the last mistake I'll make!

It's really tricky sometimes, I don't have children of my own and still find myself learning every day 5 years on. I don't like to over step the mark or butt in with decisions (i.e. contact arrangements) but I need to able to discuss it with DP I see that.

Not in a brag type of way but I'm very proud of the relationship I've managed to form with the kids. They are my little best mates and I do only want the best for them. I am only human though sometimes.

Laloup1 yes I've had a problem with this before. The three days are not always the same days. Most of the time they are but not always.

They shouldn't be told to hide their feeling to protect an adults feelings.
Maybe 3 nights is a bit much for them, 50/50 can be quite hard for a lot of children to settle with. Talk to them about whether they'd be happier with 2 now they're getting older and have stronger feelings about it.

So from their mum’s side they get told that mummy will be sad and alone when they’re not there, and on dady’s side he asks them if they don’t like staying there and when they don’t gush to tell him they love staying and being with him he gets upset? It seems that both of these parents are using their children as emotional crutches, and both of them are way out of line.

I can totally see why you said that them being sad over staying made daddy sad, it’s a natural response IMO, however your DP is completely out of order for asking such young children to confirm their feelings for him,as is their mother.

My ex used to have a go at my DS because of the number of times he rang me when on holiday with him vs the lesser number of times he rang ex while on holiday with me. All that kind of thing does is to make a child feel responsible for their parents’ emotions which they absolutely are not unless they’re being actually unkind. And saying they want to stay at mummy’s isn’t being unkind. Children of parents who are together usually have one parent they gravitate to more, this is no different, and to add to that they want a single base, or at least one which means they aren’t going back and forth every few nights.

I also think it was highly inappropriate to tell them to cover up their feelings to protect their father. I think there is far too much emphasis on what's fair for the adults here and not enough consideration of the emotional needs of the children. They are making it very clear that they are not happy with the situation. Your H needs to deal with his own pain and think more about their needs over his. I know these sound like harsh words. I believe he is a loving Dad and that you're a loving stepmum. But their needs need to come first.

SummerGems it wasn't asked just randomly it was asked when they've said they want to go to mummy's. So DP has said 'do you not enjoy spending time with Daddy?'

But if children are never taught 'when you say this it makes people feel that' you are not parenting them adequately.

Children need to be able to express their feelings but if they believe that one parents feelings count and another parent can be spoken to with no regard to their feelings then that is wrong too.

What posters are saying is the children's mother can say what she wants but the OP can not respond. Very kindly and gently the OP needs to let the children know that their father is emotionally invested in this as well because their mother is dismissing his feelings totally.

The mum seems to be putting her side consistently and the OP has made one comment in response to this.

It's natural for a child to be more attached to one parent and that is often mum.
My dc are closer to me, not sure why but they are more comfortable at home. Their dad is able to indulge them in more activities/holidays so it's not about boredom.He resents it and blames me however the dc are older and communicate this clearly to him.

Can you relate to being closer to one parent/relative? It is important their feelings are validated rather than being told to suppress them for upsetting their Dad.
His feelings are not their responsibility.

A strong attachment to their primary parent is positive for them. I also think 3 nights is too much for them and if it was reduced they might feel happier.

Be prepared that in a few years they could assert themselves and decide they want less time in dad's house.
That could change as they are older teens and contact needs to be adjusted as children grow.

"His feelings are not their responsibility"

Excellent news! Does that mean I can talk to everybody exactly how I want?

I would bloody love that. Going round telling people what I think of them great news, but apparently I can't do that because it makes people sad.

They do say things sometimes which they know upset DP for example DP will ask them do they not like staying here and they will say things like well I like playing on your Xbox or seeing the dog and laugh with each other because they know he was hoping they'd say they like to see him.

If they know that he's actually fishing for reassurance (from children!) then that's not actually asking them. I don't think it's the first time that the children have had the message that they shouldn't be expressing their feelings honestly.

They sound like they take their Daddy's time and attention and love for granted.

That means he as seen as a reliable parent that they have a secure relationship with!!!

Basically his DC love him loads and feel happy enough to say it straight without fear of upsetting him...

Your DC rarely tell you that they miss you etc when you are the boring run of the mill donkey work doer, they may well say the same to Mum about wishing they were staying with Dad 🤷🏽‍♀️

Does that mean I can talk to everybody exactly how I want?

Do you think that's the only alternative to emotionally manipulating children?

So DP has said 'do you not enjoy spending time with Daddy?'

Please dont tell him he has actually said that - that is emotionally blackmailling then and invalidating their feelings of wanting to be with their mum at their primary home

Their needs should be put first - not the parents and at the moment its all about Mum and Dad

The mum is emotionally manipulating the children. The OP made one comment when upset and is now regretting it.

No one should manipulate the children but humans make mistakes and to imply the OP is systematically manipulating the children - based on the evidence we have - is unfair.

The OP isnt manipulating the children - their mum and dad both are

Mum: his mum had said how much she was going to miss him because she'll be at home on her own

Dad: do you not enjoy spending time with Daddy?

Whats the difference? The OP seems sensible and as I said I suspect knows that they feel they dont have a homebase - the parents are putting their needs first

My dc say this. Dh and I are together but Friday they were off school and I was at work. Dd2&3 both said awww but we want you home mummy. I told them not to say that in front of Dh as it's upsetting and pointed out Dh is way more fun than me. I don't think you were out of line letting them know that their dad has feelings and its hurtful to say such things (but on mn step mums aren't allowed to breath so clearly you're wrong )

Overall, many dc choose mummy when hurt or scared as their go-to parent. It's not a personal thing.

I don’t think there is anything wrong with what was said to the kids.
They need to know that what they say upsets their father, and after 5 years of being step-mum I don’t blame you at all for getting involved.
Maybe it would’ve been better coming from their dad in the form of a proper conversation. But there’s no point in beating yourself up about it. No one is a perfect parent.

those children would benefit from a colour coded calendar in both homes so they both know where they will be.

do you not enjoy spending time with Daddy?

That's an AWFUL thing to say to these kids. Just as emotionally loaded as what their mum has said.

What these kids need is empathy and lots of open ended questions, along with reassurance that they have done the right thing to voice their honest opinions.

Your mistake was an honest one and in your shoes i would sit both DC down and start with a very honest apology. For what you said to them. They should be praised for being able to voice their feelings and encouraged to so.

Follow it with open questions and reassurance

'we love you no matter what you need to tell us'
'can you tell us why you miss mummy so much when with us?'
'what can we do to help you and make it better?'

empathy

'this must be so hard for you, we understand. how are you doing?'

the more these children have a safe space to voice how they feel, the higher the likelihood of the conflict they are under reducing.

But you also have to be open to listening to what they have to say. I currently split nearly every weekend with my EXh and myself because its what our DC want.

I think your DP should think about whether this arrangement is right for his kids. I know you say that her shifts / DPs views may be a barrier, but I get the feeling that they haven’t explored it yet. I think it’s okay to let kids know others have feelings, but in this context their feelings are not being heard first either. By either parent.