Is DSD a bit clingy to dad?

[NorthernSpirit]

Can I ask some advice from other SM’s?

Been with my OH 4 years. Have known the two SC (almost 10 & 13) 3.5 years, we’ve lived together for 2 years.

My OH sees the kids EOW & has them for half of the holidays. This is a result of a very bitter battle with the EW (who used the children as weapons for 2 years). Long story but i think the context is pertinent here.

So the challenge.....

His daughter (almost 13) is really clingy. Won’t let him out of her sight. And I think my OH - because he sees her do infrequently likes it.

We make sure the kids do stuff with dad on their own (i’m conscious they must miss dad and I think it’s important they do stuff without me).

But the daughters clingyness is reaching new extremes. I’ve raised it with my OH that I think it’s getting worse and he should have a chat with her (i’m concerned she’s feeling insecure). My OH doesn’t think there’s an issue, he thinks overreacting, i’m the adult and should deal with it. This isn’t about my feelings, I want to make sure she’s ok.

An example..... We went to a friends of my OH BBQ yesterday. Loads of kids there - bouncy castle & trampoline in the garden. Kids all playing together. The boy runs off to play with the other kids. Boy runs off to plan with the other kids. The girl sits on dads knee with her arms around his neck all day (I mean all day). Wouldn’t move. We were trying to have an adult conversation and I was conscious some of the topics weren’t child appropriate so I suggested she go off and play with some of the girls. She got up made a drink, came back 2 minutes later and sat on dads knee with arms around his neck again. She was sat on dads knee from when we arrived at 3:30pm to when we left at 10pm. I normally wouldn’t have such an issue but i’m concerned she’s feeling in secure.

On reflection this morning, i’ve realised that every social event we go to is the same. If my OH does manage to peel her off she says she’s bored, a massive silk ensues and we have to go home as it makes things pretty miserable for us all.

I didn’t know anyone there yesterday and spent the day on my own (OH couldn’t get up with his daughter on his lap to chat to be or get me a drink). I appreciate i’m the adult and can fend for myself, but is this normal?

When we are at home, she has to sit next to dad on the sofa. Same if we go out. Not got an issue with it as am conscious she doesn’t spend a lot of time with him. But if for any reason the seating arrangements don’t work out her way a sulk results.

With a push she’ll do stuff with me, I take her to have a nails done, we go shopping etc. But i’m woundering if this clingness is something to be concerned about?

Any advice? Thanks

Just another thing. Your OH might then respond better to you being needy too. Try rephrasing changes you want into what works for him, e.g. feeling validated.

If you are independent like me, it’s a hard thing to do! But there are so many battles to fight, and unfortunately not everyone responds to reason!

Oh and agree with Magda- have seen this in my DSDs. It’s like they’ve been given roles to suit the parents which have then got stuck. Youngest DSD has been so babied that now age 18 she can’t even take the bus or taxi on her own, cannot cook, etc and so little social skills she cannot order take away food at the counter. She now refuses.

They’ve had to get her counseling. Which in a way is another form of babying. EW likes it I think as she’s used it to be very dramatic and have DPs attention on her, as it’s such a worry etc. DP has to ferry her from EWs house each morning, and pop into EWs house when she’s out as she can’t be left too long or cook dinner. Northern I can only sympathize it’s a very difficult dynamic.

P.s, I’m so pleased @magda that your DP is getting therapy and it’s helping! And she’s calling him out about his attitude to EW! Brilliant. Can we all have the therapists number?!

For now try to take her places where she can't be a human limpet, maybe places where you stay on the move like crazy golf, or horse riding, the park, the zoo. Avoid events like bbq's and parties, anything that could give her social anxiety.

This is all making me think about DP’s dd who is 17.5yo.

I’ve not met her a great many times - she spends only about 1 night per month with DP.

She’s been out of school for coming up 3 years, took no GCSEs and has been given the green light to simply remain at home doing as she pleases. Her own mother has MH issues and struggles to manage herself.

DP has opted out, basically, I’m not sure even how much he thinks about the situation. Worries, yes, but seems to do zero thinking about it.

When his dd comes over to his or visits their grandparents, the kids sit and colour, like much younger children. It’s alien to me. Mine are independent, out with friends, organising their own social lives, are expected to do chores etc. At social functions his dd gives him the sort of ‘full body’ cuddle you expect between adults.

I had thought this was about dd’s un-managed MH issues (which is bad enough). But now I wonder if it’s part of the same weirdness that OP and @Magda72 describes, where the development gets stuck to suit the parents, for some reason.

It makes me very reluctant to consider moving in. I imagine my dc being very perplexed to see it. At the moment it’s not my circus and not my monkeys. But if we are to consider moving in at some point it will be an issue.

@Magda72 - your post really resonates with me.

I think DSD does want to stay young. Mum treats here like a toddler (her choice), so different from my mum who wanted to raise confident, independent children.

DSD is really well mannered. But turns the water worms on the minute she doesn’t get her own way or things go wrong. She’s not mature for her age and I worry about her in social situations. Your words on infinitive, dependent behaviour really resonated. I can already see the manipulative behaviour in her. God I hate seeing women turn the tears in with men to get their own way. Fortunately my OH now sees it as well and has started to get tougher in her.

We are seeing some changes, it’s a flow process. Hoping my OH really does realise what’s going on. I’m always amazed how intelligent men are manipulated by girls / women and they don’t see it.

Haven't RTFT but just wanted to add surely he's embarrassed by it? What did others at the BBQ say?
I'm a massive advocate of attachment parenting, physical contact, hugs, love bombing etc, but he's not doing her any favours whatsoever.
I'm not sure viewing her as 'manipulating' him is helpful, he seems to be loving it just as much as she is, but he's the adult and needs to realise that he's setting her up for a very difficult life if this is what he encourages.

My DSD has been very reluctant to grow up and let go of the daddy's sweet little girl role. She's also naturally cautious and nervous of new things. I've tried to push her gently to grow up over the last few years. She's now a very young-for-her age almost 18 year old, who won't go to parties or pubs and is nervous of leaving home

But she's come on heaps from bring a very-young-for-her-age 12 year old who wouldn't cross the road without holding hands, couldn't catch a bus, ride bike or light a gas hob. I think you need to focus on the direction of travel and encourage and praise every little bit of progress they make towards independence, even if you are partly thinking "God, child how did you get to be this age without learning to do X for yourself years ago?"!

I remember talking DSD through how to catch a bus into town in every last detail once. But she did it on her own and came home pleased with herself. I felt really proud of myself too over that :)

It's a bit of a two pronged approach you need I think, persuading your DP to stop babying her, and helping DSD do things for herself whether you can. Your DP might benefit from more contact with other people with similar aged children, so he can get a clearer sense of how odd his own relationship is with his DD.

Hi @NorthernSpirit (& others). I know the manipulation is unreal & it's so insidious. It's good your dp is recognizing it in his dd but it's a long road.
As an aside I'm just back from a few days away with dp, his 3 & 2 of mine. Exw pulls the youngest (12) aside the day we're leaving, gives him money & a list of a few things she's like him & his brothers to bring her home!!!! Spent a good portion of the time away either listening to the youngest say "dad, don't forget WE have to go shopping for mum" or hanging around outside shops while they shopped for her!!! Honestly the woman is an arch manipulator - gent like we had NO escape from her on holidays! She also asked them do phone her every day as she'd be missing them so much! Dp totally saw what she'd done but knew that if he shut down the shopping the kids (especially the youngest) would get upset & the older two have phones & had their own bedroom so he couldn't limit the phone calls.
I really worry that his kids are learning terrible habits regarding the treatment of people & how to manipulate people into doing what you want, from her.
Feeling soooooo angry today.

@Magda72 - that’s tough and the manipulation is appalling.

We have the same. It’s fine that my OH can only speak to the children 3 x per week (and that’s had to be court ordered). But god forbid the mother has to go more than 8 hours without speaking to the kids, then there’s the constant texting as well. Last weekend she phoned 4 times. Apparently mummy is loney and misses them. I wounder how she woukd feel if she only got to see the kids EOW?

Yes, I think my OH has recognised. We’re away at the moment (just the 2 of us) and it’s been good to take stock. We’ve both agreed we need to be tougher and (and I love this term someone used earlier) - parent her to independence.

My DSD can’t do anything. At 13 she can’t cook, can’t make toast, won’t go to the local shop on her own. I think she’s been really babied. I do think our job is to teach kids independence. It starts this weekend. I know they won’t have got dad a card or present for Father’s Day so am going to suggest they make breakfast in bed for him. They can’t get a bowl of cereal for themselves - it’s going to be upto them to make an effort.

You’re going to have to micro manage them through it though, OP, teens do not learn this stuff by osmosis so be prepared they will need to be told ‘open drawer, take out spoon’ etc

What is with all the weird needy mum stuff ‘I’m gonna miss you sooooo much and daily calls etc’ it’s yuck! When my two go off to, y’know, their other parent I am distinctly ‘off duty’ and get on with other stuff with DP.

"I think she likes the attention and dad likes the validation."

Absolutely. But please don't blame her for manipulating him. She is the child here and the adults have created this fucked up situation, not her. Maybe the new boyfriend is adding to her insecurities. Maybe she worries you will have a baby with her dad and push her out?

But you sound very and yes, she needs to be taught some more independent skills for her own development.

13.5 years? Try freaking 18 years. This describes my boyfriend's daughter. We met when she was 14. And she has gotten more clingy, not less, with age. She sits on his lap, hangs all over him, wraps her hands around his neck, wants to sit right next to him, hangs onto his hand, links her arms with his. They have sat on the couch, legs practically intertwined as she lays all over him. I am so over it. It's disgusting. She sulks if she can't sit next to him at a restaurant. Sulks if he and I are sitting next to each other and there is no room for her. Blows my mind. He says "she still my girl, and she has had a rough life." 🤢 I ended walking behind them, and they look like the couple. Drives me batty. I am hoping it dies down, but need to speak up again soon. It is embarrassing when we are at family things, everyone sees it, and my boyfriend doesn't realize how inappropriate it looks.

We do not have a step family (just mom dad child) and my husband was terrible at realizing our daughter was aging out of needing help with things. He’d continue to do stuff for her for a year or two at least after she could and needed to do it herself. Running the shower and adjusting the water temperature was one example. Also some grooming things like cleaning her eyeglasses. Even kids who want independence can be lazy, and why do it yourself, if dad will do it for you? Then, the kid never forms the habit that they need to have in hand approaching adulthood.

We had years of arguments before he understood that being a parent was not about making things easy, it was about lovingly giving our kid the habits and tools she needs to function as an adult.

My husband had a rather weird insecure childhood, and had to attend to his anxious, distant mother all the time. I think he had intense fear of being rejected or not loved by our daughter if he didn’t please her sufficiently or if he “let” her experience discomfort or frustration. After many conversations over many years though, things are much better. He knows he is loved by her and his expectations of her are now more in line with her age. He saw that he could say no or insist that she do a chore herself and their relationship was not damaged. Thank god things got better, because it was really terrible for a while! And of course I had to be the “bad guy” during those times!

Your OH sounds like he’s not yet begun this journey of realizing you can love a growing child without keeping them gratified and dependent. It sounds like some very basic psychological conversations need to happen…but you will have an uphill battle. He doesn’t sounds like he wants her to become more confident and independent. And that is a huge stumbling block.

Finally…I kinda think sitting on your dads lap for 7 hours at a party, when you are 13, is rather unhealthy. But I recall many times having been dragged to boring parties by my grandparents with random strange adults and kids around as a child. Adults always think kids “should” immediately make friends and play together. I would have preferred my grandparents’ company over that of random kids, so I can see the DSDs POV. Kids are individuals, not lesser beings who should be lumped together and be polite enough to just go away and leave the adults alone, adults they may be pining for more quiet time with. I would not have enjoyed that situation either. That’s a very long party, if you’re not the kind of kid who enjoys playing with strangers. Maybe DSD was trying to get her dad to think about leaving and returning home?

Also wanted to add…I had to give several lectures to my kid over the years explaining how being independent was a good thing for her because it meant more freedom - you can’t stay home alone during summer like you want to if you don’t show us you know how to cook yourself lunch safely, etc. It helped overcoming the laziness when she realized it would get her more fun things in the long run. So your OH will need to start having these convo’s with your DSD. If he doesn’t get on board and do his share of the motivating/holding firm, it’s going to be very difficult. Good luck with this really hard one!

Bless her, she doesn’t sound a happy bunny.
I think you are right to be concerned.
what’s going on at home with mum? Is there a new partner or has Mum said something to make SD think her Dad isn’t going to be around? The girl is clearly very insecure in her relationship with her Dad and at nearly 13 this sounds strange. is it something you could share with school or GP?

This is a post from 2018 @TryingToBeLogical & @Coldfinch so this situation has probably resolved one way or t’other!!

I'm a step parent and I wouldn't be happy with this at all. I think it's weird behaviour and trying to be territorial. At that age I would have been mortified to hug my dad like that in public.
Have you asked her outright why she's doing it?
She's a teenager so she'll be trying to get a reaction or provoke some sort of feeling in others. Whether this is because she is feeling insecure or not, I have no idea but it needs to be nipped in the bud.

My only criticism to you in this situation is that if I was that age I wouldn't be impressed by being told to "go and play". I genuinely thought I was a mini adult by the time I was 14 and was already smoking and drinking (not that I condone that behaviour but just an example of how "mature" I viewed myself to be)

Does she have a lot of friends? Surely she can see that other girls that age don't do that with their dads?

This is exactly why so many stepmums step back! You're investing your time and energy on a forum trying to get advice about your SD and meanwhile your DH is making it about you interfering... infuriating for you!

Have you read up on mini-wife syndrome?

I agree 13 is a tough age and I can see why she didn't want to be with "the kids" - but sitting on Dads knee for hours and hours at that age is not the norm. I would agree it sounds as though she was feeling insecure. It sounds like you are doing everything you can to facilitate a strong relationship between DH and SD. What is DH doing? Does he like doing activities alone with her or does he want you to be there to facilitate everything and plan the fun but not actually have a say in how things play out? (Blunt i know but it happens so often! )

Very intrigued in what happened in the last 6 years @NorthernSpirit