Is DSD a bit clingy to dad?

[NorthernSpirit]

Can I ask some advice from other SM’s?

Been with my OH 4 years. Have known the two SC (almost 10 & 13) 3.5 years, we’ve lived together for 2 years.

My OH sees the kids EOW & has them for half of the holidays. This is a result of a very bitter battle with the EW (who used the children as weapons for 2 years). Long story but i think the context is pertinent here.

So the challenge.....

His daughter (almost 13) is really clingy. Won’t let him out of her sight. And I think my OH - because he sees her do infrequently likes it.

We make sure the kids do stuff with dad on their own (i’m conscious they must miss dad and I think it’s important they do stuff without me).

But the daughters clingyness is reaching new extremes. I’ve raised it with my OH that I think it’s getting worse and he should have a chat with her (i’m concerned she’s feeling insecure). My OH doesn’t think there’s an issue, he thinks overreacting, i’m the adult and should deal with it. This isn’t about my feelings, I want to make sure she’s ok.

An example..... We went to a friends of my OH BBQ yesterday. Loads of kids there - bouncy castle & trampoline in the garden. Kids all playing together. The boy runs off to play with the other kids. Boy runs off to plan with the other kids. The girl sits on dads knee with her arms around his neck all day (I mean all day). Wouldn’t move. We were trying to have an adult conversation and I was conscious some of the topics weren’t child appropriate so I suggested she go off and play with some of the girls. She got up made a drink, came back 2 minutes later and sat on dads knee with arms around his neck again. She was sat on dads knee from when we arrived at 3:30pm to when we left at 10pm. I normally wouldn’t have such an issue but i’m concerned she’s feeling in secure.

On reflection this morning, i’ve realised that every social event we go to is the same. If my OH does manage to peel her off she says she’s bored, a massive silk ensues and we have to go home as it makes things pretty miserable for us all.

I didn’t know anyone there yesterday and spent the day on my own (OH couldn’t get up with his daughter on his lap to chat to be or get me a drink). I appreciate i’m the adult and can fend for myself, but is this normal?

When we are at home, she has to sit next to dad on the sofa. Same if we go out. Not got an issue with it as am conscious she doesn’t spend a lot of time with him. But if for any reason the seating arrangements don’t work out her way a sulk results.

With a push she’ll do stuff with me, I take her to have a nails done, we go shopping etc. But i’m woundering if this clingness is something to be concerned about?

Any advice? Thanks

@cheesytoast - DSD is very immature. Mum babies her (both kids) and neither parent are teaching the children any independence.

Even at 7 & 10 neither child could wipe their own bum. Mum said it was her job. I explained to my OH that it’s not right and no one was doing it for them in school. OH taught them (he sees them EOW) mum went mad.

There’s other things that have got me thinking. DSD will only bath, won’t shower. My OH has to run her bath and wash her hair. I don’t think this is normal (I don’t have kids of my own). But I do know at her age there is no way I would of let my dad see me naked.

I think she likes the attention and dad likes the validation.

My OH now isn’t speaking to me. Says I have a problem. It’s my birthday today and he’s left without saying a word. I’ll be frank - it’s bad enough having to deal with his EW who is very difficult. But now this (when I am honestly trying to help). I think I might leave them to it.

Thanks all x

I'm sure he has asked her, doesn't mean she's telling the truth when she denies it! Especially given she seems to struggle socially. Mine is open in general, and does tell me about problems, the clambering on me/ seeking my company is usually when she is working something through for herself iyswim. Your dsd sounds far more complex so I wouldn't dismiss it however much she denies it. Especially as she struggles socially anyway.

I absolutely agree that whatever it is attachment issues are involved too.

Unfortunately I'm not sure what you can do about it, apart from giving yourself a break when it gets too much. Your dp is going to have to find out what she's trying to achieve and how to solve it. Like a better way of reassuring her.

And I don't mean because you aren't the parent and should stay out of it. Simply because if she's that insecure you could voice the solution to world poverty and she'd view it as an attempt to get between her and her dad. I can see why you'd advocate for dss being pushed out by her, but even then don't let her get wind that it's come from you.

I realise that all sounds like pandering to her, but I'm looking at it from the PoV of preventing even the most imaginative, insecure teen finding a spurious way to blame you when her dad pulls his finger out.

Just read about the hair washing. That's seriously weird. Her inability might be explained by being babied. But that she has no boundaries about being naked around him is really not natural or healthy.
(Not suggesting anything about your dp, I mean from her perspective the lack of awareness and normal post puberty privacy is odd and leaves her very vulnerable to others)

No it isn't normal for a father to wash his teenage daughter's hair, it actually sounds a bit creepy.

My kids started washing their own hair at about 9 (not always very well but it doesn't really matter!). It is normal for children to want privacy from about 9 or so, too.

I'm sorry you're having such a miserable birthday and that your husband doesn't appreciate you. I'd say you sound like a bloody good stepmother, he has a lot to be grateful for.

Can you do something nice today with someone else? I know you'll probably still feel down but please don't sacrifice the whole day to your husband's madness.

@CheesyToast - thanks for your support and kind words. Just popping off to the gym and then into town to treat myself (i’ve got the day off). Did them all......

Ta x

I meant sod them! I’m seriously considering my future. Fortunately we aren’t married - we are engaged but I had a few niggly doubts (mainly about his parenting, our values are very different). So no problem there! In fact I own the house (as all his money is tied up in the formal marital home). Not my problem......

Ah ok, sorry for calling him your husband, need to get my eyes checked 🙄

Have a lovely day out!

@Cheesytoast - lol..... he’s not that lucky ;-)

Thanks x

My OH has to run her bath and wash her hair

Oh come on! Surely he realises that's in no way anywhere near normal?!
It's completely inappropriate and I'm a bit that any Dad would be comfortable about seeing his pre-teen daughter naked, nevermind her allowing it!

I'm sorry OP, but that does raise enormous red flags for me. Not saying he's sexually motivated, but it does strike me as abusive to keep her at that level of immaturity to the point where she has no boundaries about her own body.

I'd be showing him this thread.

Taking DSD out of the equation, what is your relationship like in other respects? Financially, romantically etc?

This really isn't normal. Your DH needs to deal with it.

Happy birthday NorthernSpirit

It all sounds like a very difficult situation. I think you should leave them to it. Start to detach, re-think the wedding. I would have to. This is a big thing and it won’t go away.

The hair thing is super weird. I’d have died at that age if my dad washed my hair in the bath for me! She sounds under-developed in terms of maturity and independence. Poor girl and poor you. It must be frustrating to be able to see what’s wrong and not have your opinions /thoughts considered. 💐💐

A 10 year old having their bum wiped by a parent and now at 13 she has her dad see her naked in the bath.

This is very dysfunctional (I'm not saying it's sexually motivated at all) but it's weird and creepy and clearly there is a lack of boundaries and personal space.

I see huge problems ahead when she is in her late teens and an adult.

Please think about your future with these weird family dynamics, how would DSS react if you had a child for instance?

Yeah all further information just make it more obvious things aren't right.

They are definitely babying they. Your right in your husbands case it's validation who knows for the ex wife. But your not wrong to want to help them start gaining independence!

I can see why this would make you think twice Isherwood close to his family would he listen more to them?

Hope you managed to treat yourself to some bits and save some of your birthday.

Happy birthday Northern Spirit. You have my utmost sympathy and empathy.

Very similar situation here. (Although thank god I am too blunt to put up with it from DH) the blame lies , imho entirely from him because he is the parent and needs to put the boundaries in place and stop with the fucking Disney dad routine.
My advantage is that DH lived (at Uni now) with three of mine and as I have worked ft since eldest was 6 months, I have no time or desire for 'I can't '... so the moment we have 'I have to pick up /drop teenagers because they can't get public transport ', I can point to the fact that my youngest has been taking the bus since aged 11. Can't make toast ? Come here, I'll teach you.
Leaving your clothes for some mystery person to pick up and wash ? Nope , sorry - everyone in this house does their own washing from age 10. Let me show you how the machine works.

Despite all this we have had the most almighty rows about how 'he wants to do this for them'.
I have told him in no uncertain words that I am not sharing my life with permanent toddlers. It's not fair on them. It's not fair on me and not fair on my children who were expected to be independent by their step father !! ( I know you couldn't make it up.) especially when my youngest was younger than one of his who was trying the lap sitting nonsense.

A couple of posters have hit the nail on the head. It is ABSOLUTELY about your DPs need for validation. Believe me he LOVES the attention and it also feeds his guilt about upsetting his dcs by leaving the family.

It is ABSOLUTELY about your DSDs need to exert her prior claim on your DP and to PROOVE to you who he loves 'best'.

It is ABSOLUTELY about their mothers deliberate need to keep the kids young. All the time they are 'young' he must jump to their needs. Ex will be under no illusion what they are like with you and will revel in how unhappy it makes you. She may not even know you but by making you unhappy she makes ex husband unhappy. A great joy no doubt to someone who has had a very acrimonious divorce.

It's a unholy fucking trinity of fucked-upness.

I would write him a letter. It's easier to put your point across without getting shouted down and he may even take some on board when he has calmed a bit.
I would however have a strong think about wether you can live with this. Personally I decided to tell him to get a grip or no marriage.
He got a grip which is just as well because I was absolutely prepared to walk away. I was not willing to have every other weekend be one of dread.

I have a very open, relaxed relationship with both my DC but no way would I have washed their hair in the bath at that age. A) because why would they need help with something as basic as that? I'd taught them by the age of 6 or 7. And B) They became normally body conscious when they hit puberty and would have been aghast!

Your DSD doesn't seem to have normal, healthy boundaries. And, to be frank, neither does your DP. Maybe he's just completely clueless, or maybe his sense of normal boundaries are so warped that he is abusing her? How would you know? He wouldn't exactly tell you would be? He'd be defensive, dismissive, accuse you of jealousy, and try to close the conversation down - just as he has done.

It is really not normal for a father to bath his 13 year old daughter

First of all, happy birthday.

Secondly, everything fontof just said.

DP's DC are small, but we're already noticing that their behaviour when they arrive is very different to their behaviour when they leave. They seem to have very few boundaries at mum's house, so it takes a little bit before they'll do things like pick up their toys. My DC are older, nearly teenagers, so getting his to understand that they can't take whatever they want from my DC's bedrooms was an issue. I was really blunt with DP and told him that there's not going to be one rule for one set, and different rules for the others.

I told him I have no problem being the Wicked witch, black is my colour and I have the broomstick and shoes, but I fully expect him to back me up, and vice versa.

Hi NortherSpirit did you resolve anything?

It’s all unhealthily weird and I’d be telling him to sling his hook frankly.

Happy birthday! I hope that you managed to salvage some of your celebrations.

Your DP not speaking to you must be extremely frustrating and sad. He has his head in the sand, their relationship is quite intense and not healthy. But as long as his DD wants it, he seems happy to indulge to feed his own need to feel like a great Dad.

He probably felt like he looked like a great Dad to everyone there. I think some men thrive off this dysfunctional parent relationship, especially when separated.

All their fears about being a distant Dad, about not feeling like a Dad, and the guilt are all alleviated by a clingy daughter. I doubt he’d put up with the same physical clinginess from a son.

So hard to resolve! Its not worked for me as my DP also got super defensive. And the kickback if you did persuade your DP to change, your DD might give you both her fury. I guess you could wait it out. The bathing isn’t good, does he not see that? Anyone else you could get to talk to him? Or encourage her to do stuff with peers on their weekends, a sideways approach. Like activities where it’s difficult or embarrassing to cling to Dad?

It sounds crap though, good luck.

@font you put it so well!

Crikey I wish some Disney dads would actually read some of the posts here. Wish @northerns would he’s going to lose his relationship! Wish mine had read these too!

It is ABSOLUTELY about your DSDs need to exert her prior claim on your DP and to PROOVE to you who he loves 'best'.

It is ABSOLUTELY about their mothers deliberate need to keep the kids young. All the time they are 'young' he must jump to their needs. Ex will be under no illusion what they are like with you and will revel in how unhappy it makes you. She may not even know you but by making you unhappy she makes ex husband unhappy. A great joy no doubt to someone who has had a very acrimonious divorce.

It's a unholy fucking trinity of fucked-upness.

And most importantly...

It is ABSOLUTELY about your DPs need for validation. Believe me he LOVES the attention and it also feeds his guilt about upsetting his dcs by leaving the family.

Thanks for the posts all. Really appreciate your thoughts.

OH had a really frank conversation and are in a much better place.

He couldn’t see this. Says he understands what i’m saying.

We’ve agreed some steps to get her to independence. I do think much of the problem around her not being able to do anything is her mum babying her at home (she isn’t expected to do anything). That carry’s on at ours (and I get mire frustrated. I hadn’t thought of as @Font days. You could be right. Mum is so bat shit, I wouldn’t put it past her.

The bathing - she’s in her own from here on in. She knows how to wash her own her (I actually taught her 2 years ago so she’d of been 11) when I took her swimming and she didn’t know how to do it. I think some tough love is required. I know kids are inherently lazy but for FFS.....

Feeling ok. But need to make sure my OH doesn’t slip into old ways.

You are right, he does like the valudation (but would never admit it). He goes on about how much respect he has for me because i’m so independent and not needy - well from here on in, the babying hope s daughter stops.

Thanks all.

Hi @NorthernSpirit - coming late to this but also wanted to say it's not normal, at all.
My dd is nearly 13 now & when younger tried a lot of babying tactics with her dad - insisting on sitting next to him, getting him to cook her a different dinner to everyone else's etc. Ex never told me about this but her brothers did - said she was a very different person in her dad's house to when she was with me. She was obviously trying to assert herself as Queen Bee when at her dad's - higher up in the pecking order than her sm & even her brothers. So, in that sense your dsd's behaviour is somewhat typical (Freud should never be discounted) but not at all age appropriate.

I couldn't tackle what goes on in my exh's house (the boys tried to point stuff out to him but he wouldn't listen) so I just kept reinforcing positive independence at my end. People may laugh but I bought her lots of books with female leads, I also got her books about inspirational women from history & had very frank discussions with her about how important it is to work, have your own money & to be able to make your own decisions & say no to people. My exh can be quite controlling & LOVES female attention ('worship' lol) so I'm a little paranoid about ensuring she doesn't get locked into an unhealthy 'daddy's little princess relationship with him'. She's now turning into a thoroughly independent young adult who would no more sit on her dad's lap than I would 😂.
If both parents are babying your dsd then the poor kid doesn't stand a chance & she'll grow up thinking infantile, dependent behaviour will get you what you want but as you & I both know this type of behaviour is highly manipulative & makes for pretty unpleasant grown ups. It's good your dp has seen the light but he really needs to stick by his guns or she'll turn into a nightmare teenager/adult liked only by her father!
On the other hand my dp has three teen boys - all massively babied by their dm. They're nice, boys but torturous to share space with! - no concept of keeping a room clean let alone tidy, don't flush loos, will prepare a bit of food but eat it like toddlers & create huge messes, they wipe their faces after food with their t-shirts etc. etc. Dp is horrified by this as basically it's stuff they should be growing out of. He works on improving behaviour at his end but they go back to their dm who lets them sit at the Xbox all day while she does everything for them & teaches them NO manners.
I know I sound very strident but I think not teaching your children social skills/manners is a form of child abuse as you then send them out into the world at a huge disadvantage, ie, at aged 13 don't use your T-shirt to wipe your mouth & don't sit on your dad's lap for an entire day monopolizing his attention!
This turned into a rant - sorry.
I hope things can improve for you.
For what it's worth my dp was very defensive about his kids initially but he has really wised up & now knows that I'm not criticizing but am trying to help (him with his parenting). He's actually going to a therapist now & says he spends a lot of time with her calling his own & his exw's parenting into question. He realizes there's little he can do about her but he's trying to change some stuff at his end. I think it's fantastic he's doing this as it's really giving me an outside view of his breakup with his exw & the fallout that has followed on from this.
Happy Belated Birthday btw .