Manipulation?

[Stepmumsy]

Hi ladies, I'm not looking for advice on how to resolve the following situation as me and husband have already spoken about it but I'm just looking for others opinions. I created another post recently and got some feedback that I didn't like (from swingofthings) but I stopped and stepped back and spoke with the other half and do you know what he'd been feeling the way she suggested and it really helped our situation.
So the new situation. My husband often takes the eldest to the cinema on her own. Last week he invited me to join them as it was our kid free weekend. I wasn't interested in the movie but in the interest of looking willing I accepted the kind invitation. Fast forward a few hours and he was telling me he'd not realised how much of a daddy/ daughter thing it was and so he'd take her alone another time. Basically, she wasn't going with him if I was going to be there. I told him to just take her anyway - some things aren't worth getting your knickers in a knot about, so they went.
From her perspective I totally get the importance of this one on one time and questioned this with my husband when he invited me but he said all is fine and I want you to come. My only concern about this is what message this sends to her as she seemingly has the power to get her own way.
I guess I would have been happier if he told her that he understands how she feels and the next trip he would take just her but we would all be going on this one. If she chose not to go fair enough then she'd be missing out. Although she did say well ill just get mummy to take me.
Do you consider this to be manipulation or just normal behaviour in families?

I think you are reading too much into it; I've said this before on step parent/step child threads - often the thing that the step parent is complaining about is just perfectly 'normal' behaviour - particularly from stroppy teenagers.

My DS (not a step child) frequently plays DH and I off against each other, going out as a 'threesome' can be a nightmare but he can be charming if just with me, or just with DH.

We have always had lots of 'one to one' time, it's nice and gives the other adult a child free break.

Thanks Ragwort and these are the responses I was hoping for! I recognise I'm feeling mightily sensitive at the moment with our given situation and it's very easy for me to jump to these thoughts as a well she is doing this cos she hates me. Although that could also still be the case!
One of the tricky things about inheriting older kids than your own is you haven't experienced some of the behaviours previously either.

Children quite often only want to spend time with their parent. They miss them and when they get to see them they are keen to have quality time.

It’s more about them than you iyswim

In your shoes I would just busy yourself when the SK come

The problem is your DH. He invited you and then his 12 year old gets stroppy and threatenes to go with mum and he backs away...Children TRY playing parents against each other and its normal but parents giving in is a mistake that sets unhealthy dynamic in place.
Has your DH thought about how are you feeling AT ALL? He put you in this situation...His DD going with you both and later with him for that alone time should be a solution here.

He sounds like a weak parent and a disney dad and his DDs are walking all over him..you get hurt in the process.
I wouldn't accept that. It will only get worse as they get older.

As a kid in this situation I never got any time alone with my Dad, it was always shared with his wife and I hated having to 'request' it as it made me feel awkward.

Give them cinema time, it's not hard, it means you get some time to yourself, the kid gets time with her parent and there will be less resentment all round.

"My only concern about this is what message this sends to her as she seemingly has the power to get her own way."

She just wants some time alone with her Dad, it's not too much to ask.

I'm with @WhiteCat1704.
Sorry cos I know it sounds like I'm always down in your dp but I think this really is an OH problem & he put both you & her in an awkward position.
Firstly are the cinema trips outside of regular access hours as it sounds like it? Is it one on one time with his 12 year old only? (Without her siblings)
My exh has always done similar in that he'd tell any one of our kids that they were going to do something together. So my dd would think she was getting a cinema trip alone with dad or my ds's would think they were getting a hiking trip with dad. They'd get all excited & then sm would turn up & the whole trip would not be what they expected. None of them ever complained though as they didn't want to look rude & exh wouldn't have listened anyway. My kids have NO issue with their sm but they never got any one on one time with their dad & that is important.
When my dp is not around is when I hear all my kids woes & innermost feelings. That's something they no longer have with their dad as there was never space for it.
Again I think your dp is like my exh in that he is pushing his own agenda of happy families on everyone.

That being said I think you're dead right in that the way it was handled will encouraged dsd to manipulate as she'll know she can. He should have stuck by his guns & then gone with her alone the next time as if it's the one thing he does with his 12 yo alone then he should honour that.

Even in a regular normal family unit it’s nice to be able to give one to one time with each dc recently me dd went swimming together DS2 we go to the baby classes once a week and DS1 goes to football matches with dh or the cinema with me. DS1 just went to the cinema with his df to see the new avengers and it enjoyed spending quality time on more one to one basis. We obviously do Scottie’s as a family unit aswell but from your dsd POV your dc weren’t there that weekend and it was a great opportunity for her to spend some quality time with your dp, having you there changes the dynamics some what.

Thank you for your kind words mumsy.

From the perspective of a SC in similar circumstances than your SD I would say that I would have felt much more respectful of my SM if is that situation she would hedge said to me 'I know those moments are special to you and I understand you'd want to go with only. Hopefully in time we might be able to also do things just you and I'

The issue here is that your SD probably always looked forward to this time so suddenly being informed that you would join would have upset her. She probably said something to him about her feelings that made him realise it wasn't a good idea.

Your OH managed it poorly in the same way he did with the holidays probably again because of his fantasy of a family where everyone loves each other. It might happen at some stage but it is too early still. It needs to come naturally not be forced on anyone.

I'm starting to wonder if the bad attitude they exhibit against you is displayed frustration addressed to him but it's easier to take it on you because they don't do much too lose by doing so compared to their dad.

I think you may have hit the nail on the head with your last paragraph @swingofthings.

My only concern about this is what message this sends to her as she seemingly has the power to get her own way.

Should children not have power? Should she not feel able to say she prefers to just go with her father? Should the adults always win?

@WomanEqualsAdultHumanFemale - I think there's a difference between manipulation & being able/allowed to state what you need & I think that's why swing may have hit the nail on the head.

In my experience children who are taught to ask for what they want/need & who are allowed a preference/opinion don't manipulate.
To clarify; we all want/need certain things. Part of growing up is that we have to learn that sometimes we'll get what we want/need & sometimes we won't. But a kid who is allowed to ask & who gets told yes, or gets told no & here is the reason you can't have that/I can't do that for you at the moment is a kid who feels listened to & heard. Kids who don't have this will generally speaking then find other ways to get 'heard' - sulking, manipulation etc.

Of course magda, I agree with all of that. But Do we know this child was manipulating? Or did she just say she didn’t want to go with OP? Surely she needs to be able to say if she doesn’t want something to happen?

And btw her father realising he has Made a mistake and changing the plan isn’t proof she was manipulating him.

This behaviour is simply her way of protecting something that is hers and her dads. Why shouldn't she have the power to express how she feels. She was probably devastated that this was potentially being taken away from her.

In this situation OP, it's your job to set your boundaries and decide what you will/ won't be part of.
My DP's DC's are not even close to being teenagers but they already display this behaviour (of wanting one on one time) when they are with us for contact. I completely understand their emotional needs and equally understand that my DP will do whatever it takes to build and nurture his relationship with his DC. Especially if he gets time whenever they want to do it. My boundaries as a result? I don't interfere and I stay well away. My DP even off and on talks about getting a second place nearer to his DC so he can be more involved in their day to day. I don't say a word. Thats his decision. When he has invited me to certain events, I have declined knowing his ExW is going to be there and have simply said no knowing it will make his DC uncomfortable.

You know what you're dealing with so put in boundaries that stop you from getting let down/ feeling hurt. It may be that his eldest never asks you to join you at the cinema. And that needs to be ok. The next time he invites you to be part of something, then you need to say no and that, unless they invite you themselves, then you're going to give them space. Make your own plans, do your own thing.

His eldest telling him by the way that she wants it to be daddy/ daughter time is not manipulation. Its a great sign that the chid feels confident enough to say that she wants this precious time with him. And why shouldn't she? You get him the rest of the time, why shouldn't she want this time?

As an aside, if you try and get into a 'power play' between you and his DC, that's so incredibly unhealthy. She's a child, you're the adult. Lead by example. If this is a real dynamic, then you need to question how you view this whole situation. These are DC who will always want their father over you. Thats not power play, it's reality.
Oh and if you try and play this game, you'll lose. At least you should.

Agreed @WomanEqualsAdultHumanFemale.
She's totally entitled to state her preference however, she then stated that she'd get her mum to take her at which point the OP's dh said he'd leave it but that they'd go alone another together another time. That's the manipulation piece - if I can't go with you alone I won't go with you at all I'll get mum to take me.
She's only 12 & this is most likely all done unconsciously but as she gets older it will become a behavioral trait unless it gets checked.
It sounds like her df doesn't listen to her wishes or have a conversation with her about them & so she resorts to more drastic means - I won't go with you at all I'll go with mum.
I don't think the child is to blame at all here but because her dad (at least it seems so to me) is pushing his own agenda she's adopting certain behaviors that could well get more pronounced & difficult as she gets older.
I am of course influenced by my own experience of the dynamics between my own dd & her df (my exh). It's very similar in that she wasn't listened to at all as he was pushing what he wanted on her & as a result she would resort to manipulation tactics.

@TooSassy - excellent advice though I do think the op is very aware of not wanting to interfere she's just worried about how apparent capitulation on the part of her dh may play out in the future.
Personally from this post & her previous one I don't think her dh is handling the dynamics of blending at all and as a result he's putting both the op & his dc in a very hard place. He seems to want the ideal happy family but in pushing it he's actually pitting the op & the sdcs against each other whether he realizes it or not.

If he usually goes with just her, not even her siblings, then one day decides to invite you without even mentioning it to her, I don’t think thats fair. She’s reading by saying she’ll go with her mum.

People are always saying on here that kids should have one on one time with their parents. I’m sure your DD gets alone time with you, as she should, and you get alone time with DP. Fair’s fair. He shouldn’t have changed that goalposts without considering her feelings.

*reacting

TooSaasy was it OP job to decide on the relationship between the daughter and her dad? Surely thst the best way to bread resentment thst will thrn turn onto anger and finally disrespect as we so often read here.

Being listened to is not the same as bring heard and kids are not always good at expressing themselves in such a way that their needs are earned.

If a child needs one to one time with a parent (not all do have that need) it is very much a cry to be heard. The reaction of saying that she'll ask her mum is her way to say 'mum will give me that one yo one time thst makes me so happy.

I loved one to one time when I was a kid and so still so as an adult. I much prefer to go.out with one of my close friends than as a big group. We are all different and these differences start when we are kids.

The kids all get lots of time alone with their dad when me and daughter aren't around. I agree it's really important and completely respect it. The cinema is something that happens for just the 2 of them which is why I questioned my husband about it at first when he invited me. I completely understand why his daughter would be naffed off and I'm not blaming her at all. Hindsight is marvellous for both of us. Firstly, he shouldn't have asked and secondly I shouldn't have agreed.

Swing I wish I had thought of saying this to her at the time... 'I know those moments are special to you and I understand you'd want to go with only. Hopefully in time we might be able to also do things just you and I.'

@magda72, I completely agree with you. The OP's DP is simply not thinking this through. That much is clear. Which is why I think the onus sadly falls on the OP to set and communicate boundaries so that it doesn't happen again. It can't be pleasant being in her shoes and have this happen and equally its not pleasant for the DC (with the subsequent implied message being, I'm putting you first). Which is completely the right thing but being on the receiving end of it in the OP's shoes, when you haven't asked for it in the first place is not very nice.

When you have a DP that lives slightly in cloud cuckoo land, it comes down to the other half to spell out reality. If you don't and it moves into power play world, its a hiding to nowhere.

she then stated that she'd get her mum to take her at which point the OP's dh said he'd leave it but that they'd go alone another together another time. That's the manipulation piece - if I can't go with you alone I won't go with you at all I'll get mum to take me.

Is it though? She thought her only choice was to see the movie with dad and OP and didn’t want that so she said she didn’t want to go. It’s fine that she still wanted to see the movie!