Holiday

[Stepmumsy]

I'm looking for some clarity and stumbled upon this forum. I have a daughter (5) my husband has 3 girls (9,9,12). At the beginning my relationship with his girls was good but over the last few years it has really deteriorated and has now reached the point that they barely look at me. They really dislike my little girl lately that has become more apparent over the last 6-12 months and will actively huddle together to alienate her. I've tried lots of different tactics with them but to little avail. I guess I'm adult enough to handle or perhaps try to understand why they might be rude towards me but when they are mean towards my daughter that hurts like hell. I should be the one protecting my girl yet I've introduced her into this situation.

My husband told me he wants us to go on holiday as he really wants to take his girls away. When I suggested that I didn't think it a good idea for us all to go away together as it'd be quite stressful and unlikely enjoyable given the atmosphere at the moment he seemed put out. I told him that he should absolutely take them away. He thinks it is a slippery slope to take separate holidays. He told me he'd feel upset if I went on holiday with my daughter without them.

The current situation with the girls is putting some strain on our relationship so my rationale for not going is one to protect our marriage instead of putting us in a vulnerable position that has potential to come between us.

The girls are quite tricky and I've been told this by friends and family. Quite sadly I wad told by brown owl last week that she considers 1 of them to be a real bully.

I'm not sure what I'm really looking for by posting here but if one of you could wave a magic wand that'd be awesome!!

Completely agree and wouldn't dream of rubbing anyone's face in anything. It will not benefit anyone and is an awful thing to do to people you care about. Although, during one of our chats my husband suggested it might do them good to know we are not holidaying as a family as a consequence of their behaviour. I also don't think this is a good idea as i think it might have opposite effect and will encourage them to continue as they get what they want.
We are all (me, my husband and the ex) at a loss to why they don't like us. The only feedback we get is 'we just don't .' There are lots of my husband's family members they say this about too and treat them with the same distain. I understand that I'm not perfect and have examined at length what it could be as I'd love nothing more than for things to be at least civil and anything more is a bonus. I'm just at a bit of a loss. Generally, I'm quite good at seeing things from the other side (even if i missed the whole planned holiday thing!) and genuinely want everyone to be happy. Who wouldn't?! There will be the occasional breakthrough but the next time i see them we are back to square 1.

Definitely go on holiday with your family. Glad dh has come around.

I think you need to get DH to explain to his girls that you would very much like to come on holiday with them instead of the trip to Florida but that the current split family situation is not making it possible.

They need to see that there are consequences to their behaviour. I think it's for the best for everybody that's not only do the girls get a lovely holiday with their dad but they also get to see you and Dd getting a lovely treat at the same time. They have not succeeded in punishing you and DD. If the family relationship had been more cordial then you and DD would have not gone to Florida.

It will be helpful if their dad treated this like a watershed moment a time to put old animosity behind them and try and unite the family.

What has happened in the last 6-12 months for things to get to that point? What does your OH think of it all? Does he agree that the problem is his kids and only his kids?

I think the holiday issue is only a symptoms of much deeper problems in the dynamics of the family. It is not normal to go from good relationship to hatred in a few months, and it's not normal to feel it so strongly that one would text such horrible words. It sounds like the holidays have become a mean for point scoring. It's really sad.

It started with me not long after we'd moved in together and can be pinpointed with their mum trying to stop access until she got more money. It ended up with them going to mediation etc. She admitted in an email why she was changing the routine as the fewer nights we have them the more she gets. When it was pointed out during mediation that changing the routine for financial gain was perhaps not in the kids best interest she says that it was because they didn't want to come cos they didn't like me and my daughter. The kids were upset that they wouldn't be seeing their dad in the week and told dad that they hadn't said they didn't want to come. During a family meeting she told the kids off for lying and said that is what they'd told her. She tells the kids if they don't like people they don't have to talk to them and this started with husband's dad and sister. The kids would just ignore them. It has started more recently with my daughter and we have no idea why. I'm not sure what you mean by holiday being a point scoring thing though.

Husband can see that its the kids and he finds the whole thing really upsetting.

Oh dear, another blame the ex and she said he said and the kids stuck in the middle.

By point scoring, I meant his children probably delighted to have the time with their dad without you and DD and getting 'their way' from that perspective and you showing them that you'll be going on the holiday that they would love to go to. In light of everything else going on, I think you and your OH might need to worry that you'll all be back from your respective holidays even further away from making it all work. There are enough posts here about how such divide ends up insurmountably very quickly.

I'm sorry you see this as me blaming someone else. You asked what had happened and this is what it can be pinpointed to. The facts are unavoidable. We can't control what goes on outside of our home and so are very conscious that this is nobody else's problem but ours. Having said that the kids have a loyalty to their mum and rightly so. They do need to be given permission to be happy wherever they are and it feels like they don't get this. My daughter also has a stepmum. I happen to think she is fab (even though she was the ow) and wonder why she is with my ex. She is kind to my daughter and that makes her good enough for me. I encourage my daughter to have positive relationship with her cos I want her to be happy. Similarly I'd be mortified if I found out if she behaved towards her step mum the way the kids do to me. We just get told that if they don't like me that's their choice and you can't make them be nice to or talk to people they don't like.

Swing, you have to understand that ex's play a huge part in this too. You will never understand it until you have lived it

Sometimes they are unnecessarily blamed, but if an ex doesn't allow a good relationship between kids and stepmum, then life can be very, very hard

The problem here is that they are being allowed to show disrespect. No one is teaching them that this is not ok. They are going to be totally entitled young women very soon.

My DH has a zero disrespect policy and would be absolutely furious about this. He holds my hand, shows me love. I am not a second class citizen. Our 4 (2+2) kids bitch about each other but disrespect is never ok. I don't tolerate it from my kids either.

As this stands this will break your couple.

I recommend a book called Positive Discipline by Jane Nelson. Do her family meetings. It really helps us. And when things go a bit pair shaped one of the kids normally ask to have one. If we do them weekly then we manage better.

Another good book, although you do need to pick through some of the American ideas, is:
Three Steps To A Strong Family: Tpb https://www.amazon.com/dp/0684802880?ref=yopoppmaswf.

It is really interesting on dealing with entitlement and building family traditions etc.

Thanks wallywobbles I've just ordered the positive discipline book.

Swing, you have to understand that ex's play a huge part in this too. You will never understand it until you have lived it
I am not denying that it does happen and I have seen it. It is just that just about single thread here when the SC are not nice and/or say that they don't like their DM concludes that it is because of the ex. I didn't like my SM and it had nothing at all to do with my mum. Similarly, my DS doesn't like his SM and it has nothing to do with me, I actually quite like her and my DD likes her much.

In this case, the child has actually taken to actually texting OP to say she didn't like her, which in my view is quite extreme behaviour and I would doubt that her mum only could steer just emotions.

I don't think you are a bad stepmum at all OP or that it is your fault, but there is definitely something going on and only your DP can find out what it is. He should accept 'just because' as a reason, he should get to the bottom of it and try to discuss things with them as he is having discussions with you about your and his feelings. How is it ever going to get better otherwise? There are 9 and 12, it's not too late, but pretending that all is fine when it clearly isn't will lead to them not wanting to come at all in a few years.

OP, I’m stunned that these three girls are allowed to make statements about not liking relatives and people close to their family and to leave notes and send texts saying they hate them! Everyone is entitled to their opinion but at 9 and 12 you don’t get to talk and behave that way without consequences.

Agree with PP who said their father (and mother if she condones this behaviour) are doing them no favours.

I’m amazed some posters think their behaviour towards a five-year-old ‘isn’t that bad’, Do you really think it’s fine for it to go completely unchecked? It’s totally understandable they don’t want to play with her but being mean to/about her is really low. It would be unpleasant if it was aimed at a peer but at someone half their age? Shame on their Dad for allowing that to happen more than once.

On a happier note, I’m really pleased the holiday options have worked out for you, OP.

Agree it’s utterly out of order for the girls to just ‘dislike’, disrespect, freeze out and bully close family members. How on earth one is supposed to blend families when this goes on I have no idea. It’s hard enough when basic rules of decency apply. OP you seem to say everyone is at a loss as to why they behave like this when it seems to me the reason is ‘they are allowed to’ and now they are being rewarded for doing so by this lovely holiday minus you and dd. OP you have the patience of a Saint. I would be out of there. I hope you sort it.

Hipsterassassin, some days I do question my sanity! I really want this to work though. I'm happy to take baby steps and hope that counselling will give us another perspective/ tools so that me and husband can unite and find it easier to tackle situations instead of it being an them versus us.
Last night I received a letter from one of the 9 year olds. "I know I have not been the nicest so I'm saying I'm sorry. I love you." Needless to say I balled my eyes out.

Agree it’s utterly out of order for the girls to just ‘dislike’, disrespect, freeze out and bully close family members. How on earth one is supposed to blend families when this goes on I have no idea

It is not out of order for anyone to dislike anyone else,far from it. Respect must be earned, attention is not mandatory, and bullying is not been shown here.
Sometimes you CAN'T blend families, when the members of those families do not want to be blended. The arrogance of people expecting they can force their children to become a new family because it suits the adults...it doesn't work that way. You can't insist your children like or respect anyone because you have chosen to live with them, while choosing not to live with your children. You don't get to insist they consider themselves family to suit you.

What a great message to receive at the perfect time. That must give you hope. At least it shows they are not horrible kids, just maybe lost and frustrated at time as you are. Hopefully it's a first step in the right direction.

I’m talking girls’ original family members. Who the girls are also behaving this way about.

I just think children need to behave with decency, full stop.

Who said anything about forcing the blending? Certainly not me. It’s not about whether the families should blend it’s about whether it’s ok that the adults simply shrug their shoulders when children behave like this.

I’m talking girls’ original family members. Who the girls are also behaving this way about

Are they? Who? The original family member who left them and moved in with another woman and her child?

YOU were talking about forcing blending. Not everyone wants to blended. You don't get to blend your families just because you are in a new relationship, if they don't consent.
That is far too often forgotten by selfish people who think only of themselves and their own needs.

Wow Tawny! He never left them. They were taken away from him when their mum had an affair and decided she was moving out. Granted he then moved on too but is that not allowed?!
This for me is just about common decency. They don't have to like anyone or respect anyone but they should not allowed to get away with being rude to anyone. Telling them this is okay and condoning such behaviour is not putting them on the right path to becoming decent, well rounded adults.

I’m talking about the husbands dad & sister actually. Who were mentioned in a post by OP yesterday. But never mind. For some reason you’ve decided I think everyone should just play happy families. Er, whatever... okayyyyyyyy

Am actually in a LTR and our kids on both sides have barely met. So you are massively wide of the mark tawny

From their point of view, I'm talking about. They don't care who left who, what they know is that their dad does not live with them, but with another child, and they don't feel like playing happy families. You don't get to tell them that they have to.

Its not up to you to make them "decent well rounded adults" and they don't have to be nice to your child for them to turn out that way.

Wow yourself, try and see things from a childs point of view for once in your life.

Nope it's not up to me it's up to their parents. But you seem to think that they get a right to be rude to whoever they like just because they're kids and their parents are no longer together. It isn't just me and my child they are like this with as I have already said.

Totally agree with OP. Kids whose parents are divorced and in new relationships don’t by virtue of this fact have the right to be so outright rude to people. They just don’t. I understand that step dynamics are truly complex but some clarity and baseline expectations are needed.

Great that you received that note, today, OP. Hopefully is the beginning of better times ahead.

Cheers hipsterassassin... ever hopeful!

Kids should both be told off for being expressing their feelings in a way that is going to hurt (whoever the recipient is). They should also feel they can speak to their parent to explain why they feel the way they do. Many kids don't dare because they are afraid of not being listened to.