Holiday

[Stepmumsy]

I'm looking for some clarity and stumbled upon this forum. I have a daughter (5) my husband has 3 girls (9,9,12). At the beginning my relationship with his girls was good but over the last few years it has really deteriorated and has now reached the point that they barely look at me. They really dislike my little girl lately that has become more apparent over the last 6-12 months and will actively huddle together to alienate her. I've tried lots of different tactics with them but to little avail. I guess I'm adult enough to handle or perhaps try to understand why they might be rude towards me but when they are mean towards my daughter that hurts like hell. I should be the one protecting my girl yet I've introduced her into this situation.

My husband told me he wants us to go on holiday as he really wants to take his girls away. When I suggested that I didn't think it a good idea for us all to go away together as it'd be quite stressful and unlikely enjoyable given the atmosphere at the moment he seemed put out. I told him that he should absolutely take them away. He thinks it is a slippery slope to take separate holidays. He told me he'd feel upset if I went on holiday with my daughter without them.

The current situation with the girls is putting some strain on our relationship so my rationale for not going is one to protect our marriage instead of putting us in a vulnerable position that has potential to come between us.

The girls are quite tricky and I've been told this by friends and family. Quite sadly I wad told by brown owl last week that she considers 1 of them to be a real bully.

I'm not sure what I'm really looking for by posting here but if one of you could wave a magic wand that'd be awesome!!

I just wouldn't want my daughter living like that. I certainly wouldn't be taking her on holiday with them. In fact, the best plan would be for them to go away for a fortnight and then for you and her to go away for a fortnight, so she has a month without them. And you would too, of course.

Why isn't his relationship with her better than this, given he met her when she was 1?

@magda72 I do think he feels guilty about not being with his girls all the time but the ex cheated on him and she left and went back to her mum. First she left the girls with him but then wanted a council house and when he didn't cave to her ridiculous demands for maintenance used the kids against him and took them from him. Around the time of the beginning of the demise of my relationship with the kids she was threatening him again and using girls to hurt him as we'd just bought a beautiful new home together to accommodate all kids and I can only guess she had a touch of the green eyed monster. Sadly our relationship has never recovered from the damage that was caused.
I sometimes wonder if he might also be scared of getting too close to my daughter incase one day she isn't there either.

Also i suspect he doesn't want to get to close for fear of upsetting his kids.

@Slightlyperturbedowlagain they have lots of regular time together. My daughter dances on a Saturday and we tend to be out most of the day. We are lucky enough to have 3 reception rooms but that does mean the expectation is for him to watch tv with them in a different room and we rarely spend time together all of us.

I think you need to be putting your daughter first here, it’s not fair that she’s alienated in her own home, her safe place! You also with a man that has been there since she was 1 but doesn’t have much of a bond with her incase it upsets his own kids, I get it, but it’s not really fair to your daughter

If nothing changes will you continue to stay in this situation ?

I don't think you've thought of this from their point of view. Can you imagine seeing your dad every other weekend or whatever while he lives full time with another little girl who is not his? And then being told that they are being unfair and mean and bullying if they don't include her, and if they want to be with their dad without her?

I get what everyone is saying about these children, but you're only looking at it from one side.

@Slievenamon believe me I've tried to think of this from all perspectives. Me and my little one go back to see my family every 4-6 weeks for the whole weekend and she is with her dad on Wednesday when they visit so they get plenty of time without her around at all. However, even if that was the case when do you draw a line to stop excusing such behaviour to ensure they grow up into well rounded individuals?

I don't think he's being self centred and If anything it has always been him who has been the realist and me more the idealist.
Realist when he wants to live pretending that everyone loves each other when clearly it's not the case?

Who else is he thinking of when he has a strop because you point out that the holiday wouldn't be enjoyable for everyone.

I don't think his kids are forcibly all in the wrong, 5yo can be extremely annoying for older kids. They don't find cute or fun. It doesn't mean they should be unkind to her in anyway, but you can't expect them either to want to play with her. This issue is what needs to be tackled before a all together holiday can be considered.

There is no way I would agree to take my young child on holiday with 3 other children, twice her age, who are being nasty to her.

If your DH wants a "family" holiday he should sort out unacceptable behaviour of his daughters. It's that simple. Whatever he is doing right now -talking, explaining- is not working and he needs to introduce consequences for bad behaviour and follow through.

Swing is right. He is being selfish.

Ps. Are they nasty to other young children too? Or is it just your DD? Would your DH be ok with his daughters bullying a random 5year old in a soft play?

@WhiteCat1704 I think it's tricky cos it's less that they actually 'bully' her and more just completely ignore her. So if she tries to talk to them they look away or grunt an answer at her. If we all go out then they'll huddle together the 3 of them and if she goes over you can see the tension rise as they don't want her near them and they'll walk off. In the house this can be managed as they all have their own space. On holiday this would be really upsetting. So in terms of other kids at soft play I guess this wouldn't be so much of an issue. Having said that they're not great with other kids, they are not natural mixers. What I also find so very very sad for such small people is how negative they are. I have never once asked them if they've had a good day and them say yes and I'll be honest it can be quite draining.

Hmm..well it might be that it's just their personalities but as there is 3 of them and they stick together it seems like its them vs you and your DD rather than them just not being good with kids.

It is your DH who has to tackle this behaviour. Not by talking as it's now obvious its not effective.
I think there are two options. You all go on that holiday and DH makes an effort with ALL the girls. He doesn't let his DDs ingnore yours. Every time they do he intervenes and gives her the attention they are denaying etc...Is will be stressful and hard work and frankly I wouldn't try it on holiday until he proves he can tackle it at home first.

Second option, which I would personally prefer in this situation, is that you take your DD on holidays and he separatly goes with his daughters.
You and him should go somewhere together too..maybe when all the DD are with their other patents.

@Stepmumsy I have that too. The negativity - & it is very draining. My dscs are also quite conservative & pass what I & my kids would consider to be quite homophobic or misogynistic comments sometimes. Dp pulls them up on this but not enough imo & I know this is the life stance their dm has.
I think part of the problem in situations such as ours is that you're not just taking on your OH's kids, you're taking on his ex's kids also iyswim; her views, opinions & personality coming through in them.
You think initially "they're my dp's kids of course we'll click" - but then over time you realize they're not just your dp's kids they're also their dm's kids.
I'm quite lucky with my exh in that he, his dp & I come from very similar backgrounds & while we do have differences in parenting we have the same approach on the big things - education, hobbies, social responsibility, manners, screen-time, etc. & it makes life relatively easy & I'm very grateful for it.
On the other hand dp's exw & I are poles apart regarding all the above & while dp's ideal way to parent would be more in line with mine he finds himself giving in to hers to avoid weekend conflict as she's the rp. I think this is a massive part of our overall problem.

You can't govern what goes on in your dscs mum's house but it is worth examining. If her approach to life & parenting is totally out of line with yours then you have to be realistic about your expectations of how you guys will blend as time goes by & put in structures (such as separate holidays) which will support how you handle these differences.

So 3 sisters don't want to play with a child half their age that they have every cause to feel jealous and resentful of? That's not bullying, thats normal child behaviour.

Major problem with blended families is often this: the children don't want to be blended and you can't force them. Its not actually wrong of them to not want to be around you and your child.

@TawnyPort and I agree with you to a degree. Which is why I stated earlier that I feel sorry for them as they didn't ask for any of this. However, if I was to have shown the level of disrespect/ rudeness whatever you wish to call it when I was a child then I would not have lived to tell the tale. So regardless of who we are and what they feel towards us (which has only become a more recent thing), is it right that they treat anybody this way?!

Is it right that they have been treated as they have?
Should they be more polite, sure. But its their fathers responsibility to discipline his children, not yours.

Do you mean is it right that their parents separated?
Their dad takes care of all discipline.

Apparently not very well though, according to you?

Current tactics appear ineffective....

From what you say it does sound like she annoys them and 5yo can be very annoying as my kids have experienced. They shoulďnt be rude to her it's hurtful and she doesn't deserve it but you should maybe be more active in making sure that she doesn't annoy them. She also need to learn that older kids will have their own discussions around matters that She will know nothing about.

To be honest Stepmumsy, the only answer is for your DP to keep disciplining his kids when they treat your daughter that way. I'm guessing he doesn't always do what he could because he doesn't want their time with him to be 'ruined' by constantly getting told off.

I would tell him you'd happily go on holiday but can't put your daughter in that position while they continue to treat her so badly. She is only little and they are old enough to know better. Maybe she IS annoying them, but that doesn't mean they can ignore her completely.

If your OH wants family holidays, he needs to sort his children's behaviour out first.

So 3 sisters don't want to play with a child half their age that they have every cause to feel jealous and resentful of? That's not bullying, thats normal child behaviour.

Major problem with blended families is often this: the children don't want to be blended and you can't force them. Its not actually wrong of them to not want to be around you and your child.

It may be 'normal' child behaviour but that doesn't mean it can be allowed to continue. Resentment is not good for them either.

They need to be supported by their dad to accept their new family situation. It doesn't mean they have to be best friends with OP's daughter, but they do need to be civil.

I totally get this, being in a similar position. I had the younger child too and he was being increasingly left out and bullying/ignoring creeping in.

I think if I were you I’d try one last holiday but make it very, very clear your concerns to your DP. Tell him if there is an atmosphere you will not take holidays together again. Be very practical about what you want DP to DP about it. I’d even sit down with his kids with your DP and be honest, before you book, tell them there’s no point going unless everyone is kind to each other. That means no ignoring, no leaving out. Tell them as older kids you expect them to be especially kind to younger ones.

Then I’d book something like Centre Parcs where there’s lots of activities and space.

Very true Magda!

I think part of the problem in situations such as ours is that you're not just taking on your OH's kids, you're taking on his ex's kids also iyswim; her views, opinions & personality coming through in them.

It may be 'normal' child behaviour but that doesn't mean it can be allowed to continue. Resentment is not good for them either

You can't force them not to be resentful. You can't make them be happy with the situations adults have forced them into. You don't get to decide that they have to get on with their dads girlfriends kid.

I also agree that they do sound like fairly normal kids, and in any family you are going to get groups/cliques/allegiances forming.
a five yr old sister is most likely going to be left out from 9 and 12 yr olds games.
The tv watching in a different room things, sounds like you are being a tad over sensitive, why dont you and your dd just go and join them ?
The theatre trip...it sounds like you organised it for you and dd and then asked them as an after thought...maybe they said no as felt not really wanted ?
You and DH are the adults here, why are you not organising family things and just doing them all together, in a family of 4 children you will always get some sulking, some moody, some say they dont want to go etc etc..but in evitabley when out at the zoo/cinema/theatre etc someone who was moody finds they quite like it...

If you have the funds , i would suggest you try an activity holiday that has kids groups that splits them all....and you all have different things to do part of the day and then have time together..Neilson particularly good at this. This way your dd has a good time and will have kids a similar age to play with , as will your 3 dsds....

Maybe divide and conquer if you dont want to keep trying inclusive tactics. Could you ask the 12 year old ( on her own) to help 'babysit' your dd...maybe for an hour while you have a bath/go for a walk etc...and offer her a little babysitting money..maybe giving her a role within the blended family would make her less likely to try to sabotage things.