Holidays

[Magda72]

My dp is the sole financial provider for his three sons, 12, 15 & 18. Their dm is a sahm with no mortgage (house bought for her as part of divorce settlement) & a huge cash lump sum. She refuses to work & dh pays all dental, medical, school bills etc. plus 600 pounds a week maintenance. She has never once brought them on holidays - he does all that also - as she doesn't like traveling. Fair enough.
My exh & I split everything down the middle & he pays me the recommended nominal maintenance as I'm the rp.
Exh has only ever taken our kids on holidays once as he has two more & money can be tight. I've taken them every year quite happily & it was always my choice.
Dp & I live together & are now engaged. Dp is taking his kids on holidays again in June & suggested we all go together. I've said no as I genuinely can't afford it as I will need that money to pay for my half of the wedding. Exh also not doing a holiday this year due to finances so my kids will not get a holiday this year. Fair enough - it's really a first world problem.
However these situations really confuse me & I have very mixed feelings around them. I have NO emotional issue with dp taking his kids away & I certainly don't expect him to pay for my kids but it's weird having him discuss a holiday around me & my kids when he lives with us but we can't afford to go.
I also feel that with a wedding coming up he should be stepping back a little and using the money for that but is that silly/unfair of me? His kids have had one major holiday & 3 weekends away every year I've been with him - surely a cut back for one year wouldn't be the end of the world?
And in the future when I can't afford things or choose not to spend money while he does where does that leave us?
I'm not damning anyone here just wondering how others tackle this stuff when there are financial discrepancies & no shared kids?

I think you are getting frustrated but I think YABU.

His exw's set up and whether she works and how much he pays her is irrelevant. He is allowed to have a holiday and quality time with his boys. He can afford it and it's what's fair for them and for him.

It's a pity you can't afford to take your DC. Did he offer to pay anything towards them coming? Could he afford to or does he think you will refuse because you like to pay your way always. Once you are married things should possibly change. You need to discuss it with him.

Bear in mind that with the age his sons are, it's likely they won't want to go on holiday with him for much longer.

What he spends on the kids is up to him, but it's worth having a discussion about this as marriage will mean shared finances and you will probably be looking at funding your respective DCs through university. As student finances are assessed on the RPs household income, this could leave you struggling if you are still splitting the DC bills in this way. Long-term, what happens when maintenance finishes and his disposable income increases?

Thanks @bluecashmere. I genuinely don't mind him going with his lads - it just feels weird. It's the first time we haven't been on a level playing field & it feels a bit off - I didn't think it would. We've discussed married finances and we decided my wage for me & my kids, his wage for him & his kids & a joint pot (from both wages) for 'us'.

I thought this seemed reasonable but now I'm not so sure as I can't really see it working.
I only mentioned his ex's & my ex's situation as background to why we both have ended up doing all the holidays. Thing is he can't really afford this holiday this year (not just because of the wedding) but he doesn't want to disappoint his kids.
I get this - but I've had to disappoint mine.
I'm very independent & don't mind separate finances for certain things - I just fear it's going to get a bit messy in the future esp when we're married .
He hasn't offered to pay towards us going but to be honest I wouldn't expect that.
The feelings around this stuff are just all very confusing.

Hi @TheABC. I was left money by my dm which I have put into funds to help cover my half of my kids 3rd level. My ex will cover his half - it's written into our divorce agreement.
Dp has to pay all 3rd level by himself as ex has refused to contribute. So realistically all the current maintenance will end up there.
I genuinely don't mind looking after myself & my kids financially - I suppose I'm now seeing that any issues will be more to the fore once we're married.

You absolutely have to have this conversation now. It's so hard, obviously he wants to continue with what he has always done for his children. But so far that's been no different than School friends getting different holidays.

I wouldn't have my children live any where that meant they felt like the poor relations. Better to continue living separately than have them feel they are second class citizens.

Hi @lunar1 - you're right. I need to iron it out now. I know he wouldn't deliberately make me or the kids feel bad, now or in the future, but financial discrepancies in the future will cause strife.
See, I can't help feeling that if the roles were reversed I'd call off the big trip, disappoint the kids (for once) & plan it or similar for next year once the wedding is done.
He's just paid out 1000 for one sons school trip & 700 for the other.
I too have just paid out my 400 for my sons school trip to Europe so I feel he can handle the disappointment of not getting a summer holiday!!!

A sensible solution would be to all go on holiday somewhere local and cheaper. However he is obviously set on taking his kids abroad (even though you say he can't really afford it this year) despite the fact they have some expensive School trips (also overseas?) scheduled and the dad has a wedding. It would be very reasonable to skip a holiday abroad this year and do a local family one instead.

I think your DP may be motivated by guilt (perhaps because their mum doesn't take them anywhere or perhaps because he doesn't have them full time?)

Have a serious talk with DP and try to explain (without getting upset) how you feel, try to get to the bottom of why he feels the need to take them on a big trip, even if it means upsetting you and your kids, despite money being tighter this year and the fact they have some school trips to look forward to. He may choose to go anyway, but perhaps once you are married he may begin to make more inclusive decisions.

Hi @helenoftroyville - have told him we need to have a chat when next he's home - away working at the moment.
And yes all the school trips are abroad.
My dd (12) has just asked why dp is still going on holidays & we're not, so I explained affording things to her & different incomes etc. She says she doesn't think it's very fair that her df shares all his money with his dp & my dp won't share his with me! Explained maintenance etc. (again) & she then says she doesn't think it's fair he shares all his money with his exw & not me! Explained (again) it's for the kids not his exw & she's now asking why I have to work & why her df won't share all his money with me & why do I have to work when her sm & dps exw don't!
Aaaaaagh - my head is melted lol.
Any tips on explaining this stuff to kids would be much appreciated!

I think you are being unreasonable OP sorry. You sound resentful of the monetary arrangements he has with his ex which have been in place presumably for some years. He is just doing what he has always done. It is his money to spend and it's not fair that his children should forgo a holiday because you can't afford to take your children

He would have the same difficult conversation with his children that you are not enjoying having to have with yours about not taking them on holiday - when he doesn't need to because he can afford it

That said once you get your thoughts straight best to say what is on your mind rather than stew about it

Are the joint financial arrangements fair in terms of day to day living expenses i.e. does he pay half the living and housing costs?

His dc
Your dc
Have you discussed 'children of the family' when you get married?
Separate dc +finances is all well and good as single parents but how do you plan to work it as one big family? Discuss it now or you and your dc may always be left behind.

You need to I discuss what happens in the future

I assume his contribution to his ex will go down as the kids get older

Can you not have a holiday fund pot for sharing even he puts in more than you do for one trip away as a family?

I don't think you're being unreasonable. Time & time again on MN all talk is about 'family money' which I completely agree with. You're due to be married. All DC's need to be treated as equally as possible.

I would not be happy about this & would be having a chat about finances & equality for all DC's.

As another poster pointed out you do not want your DC's to feel like second class citizens.

There has to be a compromise somewhere.

£600 per week

No wonder she doesn't work he's basically handing over a full time salary to her. He sounds like he has more money than sense.

Who pays that much to their ex? I need an ex like that FFS.

@Pleasebeafleabite - I'm not bitter at all. My point is that it's hard explaining this stuff to kids & I'm honestly not sure what the right route to take is. I've no issue what he pays to his ex as it doesn't affect me. What does affect me is wondering what's fair regarding the kids.
I have a good standard of living & my kids want for little - I don't need or want dps money. I'm just wondering what's morally fair if that makes any sense.

Also (posted too early), he doesn't pay half of everything. As we live with two of my kids I divide household stuff by 4 & he pays 1/4. This was my idea. His kids aren't with us much at the minute (he travels to where they live with their dm at the weekends to see them so I didn't think it was fair to ask him for half.
@Friendslover & @GreenTulips I say his dc my dc as they're all between 12 & 21 & we have found it hard to blend them. They get on just fine with each other but there's huge issues with his ex & with geographics. We're working on all that though and are making progress.
@PipGirl404 - I too think the maintenance is crazy but that's his decision and he takes his role as their dad very seriously which is a good thing.

Just for arguments sake....how would this holiday thing work if you had another child, together.

Would he pay for the youngest as it is his child, but still leave your children at home? Would you have to stay home with your children and not go on holiday with the youngest? Thinking of it from that perspective highlights how crazy and unfair it is on every level.

I imagine he has to pay her spousal maintenance/support within that £600. He's obviously a high earner to be paying that much a week.

You just need to tell him you're out of a holiday this year due to finances.

Your DD needs to understand thst finances are complicated and there's not necessarily a right or wrong way.

Think more long term. Your DP only has a few more years of holidays with his kids. Things will change. Suggest one year you go away just him and you for a week? One big one with all? Mix and match.

Hi @SandyY2K - that's exactly what I've tried to convey to her - that finances are different for every family; that things vary from household to household.

He's not that high an earner but is self employed along with another family member & exw threatened to go after the company unless she got a house & that level of maintenance. He spends money on nothing bar his kids but he does have lean times.
As a pp said there is guilt involved over not living with his kids full time & as a result he does struggle with saying no to them. He's lucky as they're good kids but they are spoiled by both him and his exw & they do expect a lot which is not their fault.

It's very tricky isn't it. Most women I know whose partners are self employed...pay minimal CS as they do their own books.

I had a friend who knew her Exes trick and how he his money from the taxman.

If his boys go to Uni it's going to cost lot. The accommodation costs are high. Not to talk about maintenance. The student loan isn't enough.

This whole SAHP thing bothers me tbh. I don't understand how people...full grown adults are happy to be dependent on another human being for life.

The youngest is 12...she can get a job. All this time not working...she'll gave zero skills...and thst money will decrease when the youngest is 18.

Anyway that's a whole other debate. I just could not live my life...being financially dependant on a man.

it's weird having him discuss a holiday around me & my kids when he lives with us but we can't afford to go.

Ask him (nicely) not to discuss it when your kids are around.

So complicated isn't it.

Totally concur with @SandyY2K. My OH’s EW refused to work (apparently one of the reasons for their marriage breakdown). Apparently all mums who work are bad mothers. I call it bone idleness.

When their divorce finances went to court (she was after spousal maintenance amounts other things). The children were 11 & 9. She refused to get a job.

She was told by a judge to get a job and start supporting herself.

Personally I wouldn’t want to be dependent on a man.

@NorthernSpirit

It's crazy isn't it. I understand when the kids are not in school and childcare costs are ridiculous.

When they start school though... you need to start working.

I'm sure many will have a different viewpoint...but I kind of think...what's the point in going to Uni...getting a career...then you have kids and you forget it all.

That's not the example I want to set for my DDs....thst a woman is only there to reproduce and stay home.

@SandyY2K - couldn’t agree more.

My 12 year old DSD said last year in conversation - mummy said I need to find a man to buy me last things. I was truly shocked. What a terrible example to set to a young girl. I feel so lucky to have been given the opportunity to get a good education and a good job. That’s the example we should set to young girls. Not that they should sponge off a man. How demeaning. Personally I have self respect. Get an education, work hard and you can buy yourself nice things!