Our Weekend with his kids

[alwaystryingtobeafriend]

And I'm not looking forward to it.

Dad 10 has an attitude the size of the moon. Dss 8 is just being a wee shit.

I can't be parsed with them this weekend. I'm at the end of my tether. I have tried for 3 years now to be nice and friendly and welcome them into my life and its been a really bumpy road. Loads of good and bad times. But recently the kids are just a handful. And in really beginning to not like when the kids come over. I always feel on edge. Everything I say or do goes back to mum. I feel awkward in my own home. And dp knows how I feel yet continually forces me to do stuff with dsd even though he knows shes a little witch when it comes to me. It's driving me bonkers.

I just feel unwelcome every time they come and dp doesn't do anything to address the situation except when he has a go at me.

Tonight he told me not to have a go at the kids if they come in being noisey. ( I was trying to get a quick nap before they came over) I was like well they are old enough to see me sleeping and to know just to be quiet.

I'm so frustrated already and they have only been here an hour. Think I'll get an early night. I'm not in the mood to baby and pussy foot around the Kids.

It feels hard because it is bloody hard. And they will grow-up. But you are already the grown-up so cut them some slack.

If your DP doesn't support you however then that needs dealt with, he too is a grown-up and needs to consider how his choices impact you.

yes, i use that one randommess - you don't speak to your teacher like that so why me?

i also won't be a skivvy and i pretend not to hear if they rudely demand things of me.

yes, it's bloody hard. you have my sympathies.

You build connections with children by understanding them. By understanding their feelings and needs. You will never build a connection by expecting respect.
You need to try and see thing from their point of view with the outlook and life experience of a child.
Their lives are turned upside down every other week. It's bad enough that their parents split up but they also have to deal with this other woman who takes their dad's attention and sometimes isn't nice.
Add to that normal child behaviour, that you really aren't used to, combined with the fact that you don't have unconditional love for these children as a parent would, you're facing a losing battle.
Their behaviour will always feel like a personal attack against you when the reality is, their behaviour is a reflection of how they feel.

Op I'm sorry you've had a bashing, I think you are just being honest. I hope you find a resolution.

Great post unsolved. I see no empathy whatsoever in your posts op. These are young children and you, frankly, sound very intolerant of them, demanding respect.

I cannot get over the fact that you were expecting an 8 & 10 year old to be quiet while you had a nap on the sofa when they had just arrived. What a clear message that they are unwelcome . I would never do this to my own dc (same age roughly) - if I can't nap with their chatter then I go without or elsewhere. These kids don't live ft with you so I imagine you have more opportunity than most to nap - i agree that you seem needy and this scenario seems almost calculated to set them up to fail.

Wow Always, you are getting a bashing! I'm a SM to grown kids, and although over very different issues, I cannot get my DH to discuss problems either...after many years! it's so frustrating, but I don't have to see my DSC very often, so relations manage to stay reasonably OK! I think possibly you were feeling very strung out when you typed your OP which did sound a little harsh, so other posters are being less than sympathetic?! I have to agree that your DSC are very young and they are probably resentful of any time/attention their DF gives you. But, you shouldn't have to put up with downright rudeness, so you have to insist your DP discusses it like a rational adult, make sure he understands this is a matter which must be addressed and resolved to both adults satisfaction! No, the children can't be expected to accept and understand the situation yet, but unless you and their DF are on the same page regarding their behaviour, they never will...and you will never accept them either!

So so true unsolvedmystery.
Unfortunately, a lot of the time, we don't realise how our communication is affected by how we feel about someone. My DS has hit the dreadful teenage stage which makes him...well not the most lovable person except by his mum because someone has to! I deal with it the way we parents tend to, by picking our battles. OH, who is a wonderful loving person has been finding much harder to cope with the behaviour. I understand this because when you don't have that parental blind love that makes you cope with the worse because when things are good, they are usually aimed specifically at those parents who they really do love back, you don't have that same balance.

As a result, my OH has detached himself from DS. Probably the best thing he could do in many ways as he feels less frustrated this way and DS less targeted. However, the one thing that OH doesn't see at all, but I and I'm sure DS do is that the tone of voice my OH takes with him very much reflects how he feels about him. It's little things, like if I leave the door open, he'll say 'darling, do you mind closing the door', whilst if it is my DS he might say something like 'do I have to say it again, please close the door'. Or DD will come home and he will ask her how her day went, but won't ask DS. Or even saying goodnight, which might be 'goodnight C, sleep tight' looking at her in the eye and a smile, whilst it will be a rushed 'nightnight' without looking up at DS.

Thankfully, I was able to talk to him about it, he listen and even though at first he said he didn't speak to him differently, I think he reflected on it and had to admit that he did use a different tone of voice that was reflective of his feelings. It was a vicious circle, because of it, DS didn't engage with him at all which of course made OH feel less engaged with DS. OH made a real effort with his communication with DS, I really noticed it and unsurprisingly (to me) it had a real positive impact on DS who started to take the initiative to talk to OH. As a result, their relationship has vastly improved in the last few months.

I do expect things will remain tense for a few more years. We went through exactly the same with DD when she was 12 and OH find it really hard to relate to her, but three years on, they now get along brilliantly.

I really do believe that when things are not good between adults and children, let it be parents, step-parents, teachers etc..., the onus is on the adult to make the first efforts to improve communication, not the child. Children react to what they feel as UM as said. It can take time so it can be quite disheartning but a child who doesn't have social issues as a whole but is rude to a SP is often a child who doesn't feel appreciated themselves for whatever reasons, and it is these reasons that need to be explored, whether they are funded or not.

Thanks everyone. I really will try to take on board the comments.

DP and I had a massive falling out over this. I tried to tell him I don't feel supported and that I think the kids attitudes suck and I do t like the way they speak to me or him sometimes. But his response is always the same 'they are just kids'. He wants me to talk to him about stuff when it crops up. But I know I was always get the same response. Because in the past it has always been the same.

Yes I know they are just kids who have had a really shady start. I cannot begin to understand how it makes them feel. I do my best to give them all time without me but dp thinks I'm just stropping because kids are here then that causes tension. It's not that at all. I just go for a bath or read a book once everyone's in and settled. Because I know they need that time and I know if I'm not there I can't get annoyed at the things that get to me but not dp. So then there's no arguements.

I'm beginning to dread kids coming over, as is dp because he feels he is refereeing. But if he just addressed the back chatting and rudeness then it might not be so bad.

I think it's a lo g road ahead and I really am considering the implications of leaving.

But if he just addressed the back chatting and rudeness then it might not be so bad.
Sorry but you really are completely missing the point.
You are only thinking about this from YOUR perspective - how their presence affects you. It will never get better while you focus on their behaviour and ignore how they feel.
You are stropping because of how you feel.
They are stropping because of how they feel.
Only you're the grown up and you chose this and you can change it if you want to.
Maybe their dad does need to address their behaviour, but that won't make things better. Addressing their behaviour will not improve your relationship with them.

I cannot begin to understand how it makes them feel
Then try, really, really try. Because until such time as you have some understanding of what is going on for them, this situation will not improve. In fact it is likely to get worse. That dread that you feel, may well be similar to the dread that they feel, and there is absolutely nothing that they can do about it.

Again, I totally agree with unsolved. I don't think you have taken many of the comments on board actually and I agree you are missing the point.

The implications of their dad "siding" with you over this could be catastrophic for them in the long run. Their need to feel supported and listened to by their dad is greater than yours I'm afraid. They are young children and you haven't really given any examples of their 'bad' behaviour other than them not wanting to tiptoe around you while you nap. If they are really rude to you then obviously having appropriate boundaries backed up by your dh is a good thing, but it seems that you just don't like the "little witch" and her brother. Your dislike is palpable and I really hope he continues to be loving and supportive of those kids.

If you can't be more child-centric then maybe it is best of you think about ending the relationship.

Dp has never not listened or supported his kids.
When they are here he rarely sides with me.

The nap thing is more about me and dp than the kids. If they woke me I wouldn't have been that bothered.

I get more annoyed that no matter how nice I am they go home tell their mum I told them off for one thing or another and she is on the phone accusing me of all sorts.

It makes me feel uncomfortable in my own home. Like I can't say or do anything without it ending in a fight with their mum.

I used to really like the kids. I find it more difficult now. I find dsd is becoming quite manipulative and trying to play one parent of an other. So of course I don't like it/ her behaviour.

His kids are good kids generally. To other people they are lovely. I'm finding it hard to like them just now. DP has admitted he finds it hard with the kids too. He said he knows they are not the nice kids they used to be but he is doing what he can and I need to get used to it or leave basically.

I do take on board what you are all saying. I appreciate the feedback. There are tho vs I hadn't thought of. So I am going to try and adapt and make changes to how I am and see if it helps.

So it sounds like the biggest problem for you is the ex complaining. If this is unjustified then I can see your point.

However if my children (of that age) were staying with someone who didn't like them I would find it very very difficult and would be trying to minimise the negative impact on my kids.

Kids of that age are being manipulative for a reason - it sounds like they don't feel safe (emotionally). Try and do some soul searching about whether your current dislike of them is coming across. I can't get over some of the pejorative language you have used about them - egos the size of a moon (I doubt this is really true - she sounds quite insecure)/little witch/wee shit.

You just sound really intolerant of them .

If you like/love them then they will sense that and probably won't mind being told off - particularly if it is consistent and fair. If they sense your dislike then they will probably be trying to articulate to their dm why it all feels unfair. I feel a bit sorry for your dh being stuck in the middle.

I feel sorry for him too. But I do thi k he needs to step up a wee bit and do the tellings off where necessary.

I know it's not nice how I describe the kids. but its the best way for me to describe how I feel about them. And your right I am being unfair but I get so mad sometimes and it probably is coming across like I don't like them. I need to address that.

Does nobody on this thread think/believe that children and pre-teens can be manipulative/cunning/divisive, for any reason other than they are emotionally insecure? Does nobody think that sometimes they act this way...just because they can? The family dynamic has splintered and yes, their lives have been disrupted through no fault of their own, and whilst I realise not every split family all pulls together, in my experience of friends/family divorce, the children have been put first, their needs and emotions are paramount when making decisions. However, they all usually 'try it on' in whatever way they perceive a chink to push the boundaries, and get away with flouting family rules etc....isn't this sometimes just normal developmental behaviour?

No I don't think that anyone is prone to being manipulative without an underlying reason. And I say this with some professional experience (don't want to out myself).

Fair play op - you sound as if you are willing to work on stuff.

Fwiw yes I totally agree - you should have agreed firm boundaries and you should both stick to them. This helps kids feel safe. The problem is when the "discipline" comes not from a place of love, but one of resentment. Good luck to you!

No I don't think that anyone is prone to being manipulative without an underlying reason.

Having read a mountain of parenting resources, many of those suggest that "manipulation", "deceit", and "disobedience" are natural stages of development for DCs.

I appreciate that you don't want to "out" yourself cedric, but in your professional opinion, are all those parenting resources wrong? I've never worried unduly about my DDs attempts to play me off against her Dad, or white lies to get out of trouble - I've just dealt with them and moved on. I'm concerned as you say that there is always something more underlying going on!

Well it depends on what you consider underlying - there will always be a period of boundary testing which is normal - but manipulative implies other more sinister motivations. This is usually driven by a different kind of testing and is usually part of being insecure and testing love and loyalties.

In my work we would never ever just assume it was normal and not try to work out the drivers for the behaviour. I think if you can remember that they are small children and remain child-centric you can't go wrong.

I do have an issue with the cod-psychology that is often peddled in parenting books - they are often inconsistent and not based on any research.

Whilst respecting your professional experience, I question the statement that no one is prone to being manipulative without an underlying reason?! Would you say that is the case across the board in every family dynamic, whether blended or otherwise? We are all different, child or adult, could there not be an element of inherited/natural characteristics, as in some people are naturally hyper sensitive to other's needs, some are blasé, some are pragmatic etc, etc? Or are you saying that all behavioural traits are the result of outside influence? I find this genuinely interesting!

I'm kind of outing myself if I say any more - sorry. Perhaps it is the semantics of manipulative that I disagree so fundamentally with. I realise this is an annoying answer.

cedric can you say, without outing yourself, at what age DCs stop being "small children" in your opinion?

The OP says that her DSD is 10 years old - at that age, my own DD was in the grip of pre-teenage hormones, and could not, by any stretch of the imagination, be considered to have the same drivers and motives as a toddler or younger child. She was (and is) in he clutches of the natural biological drive to become independent from me - and if that means rudeness, lies, manipulation to get her own way - then all those things are fair game to her.

I can remember, as a teen, deliberately tricking/maipulating my mother to leave her bedroom in order to remove the spare house key that she thought she had hidden from me. I was not particularly insecure, I may have been testing her love (don't all DCs) but actually, I was motivated by the simple drive of wanting the freedom to stay out later than my parents were permitting me to.

When a step-parent is faced with that kind of behaviour, it is inevitable that they are going to respond in the same way as my mother did - with anger, disappointment, frustration. I don't see why epxectations of step-parents are higher, and that they shouldn't feel and express the same feelings as parents?

My parents split up, but not until way after I had left home and married, so it didn't have an influence on my growing up years, but OMG, I was the most manipulative, conniving little bra of a teen!!! I think I was just good at thinking up excuses, reasons and scenarios to get my own way, I don't ever remember feeling any insecurity, my home life was as stable as in any in the era, but if I didn't want to come home until after curfew....I fibbed, as did most of my contemporarys!!

Ugh it's difficult to do without explaining the model I work with and I just can't do that here - it's more information than I am prepared to give out on mn. Sorry. Suffice to say I have had several years of practice, it is used in nhs settings and very credible. And yes I stand by what I have said. Sorry I can't explain more.

I'm glad the op sounds more positive.

I agree with cedric and also have a professional background.
All behaviour has an underlying need or feeling. It may not be insecurity, it could be that they are jealous or scared or feel ignored.

Peruvian - you manipulated your parents because you did not feel listened to and you felt that their decision to restrict you was unfair. Your behaviour was to meet your own need, not a personal act against your mum.
That was your only motive. Had you been able to manipulate her but it didn't meet your own need, you wouldn't have bothered.
Maybe if they had talked to you more to listen to your issues and explain their concerns, you could have come up with a solution that everyone was happy with. Even if that wasn't possible, they might have been able to help you understand why they felt it necessary to keep you in, it depends on the circumstances.

Wdigin2this - again, all of your behaviour was to meet your own needs. You felt the need to control certain areas of your life and would do anything you had to, to ensure that you maintained control. As with most teens, you lacked the emotional intelligence to understand the feelings behind that behaviour.

Unacceptable behaviour does need to be dealt with, but if you focus on the behaviour and ignore the underlying need, the behaviour will either continue or change to something equally unacceptable. If you address the underlying need, you stand a chance of reducing the unwanted behaviours.