Husband vs my adult son battle

[Feelinghelpless2]

I've got a 22 year old step son who lives with my husband and I, we've been married for 4 years. My son works and my husband and sons relationship is up & down. My son works and pays digs but does very little around the house disputing me asking and this annoys my husband. Anyway, my son wants two friends to stay overnight as they going out drinking, we've never met them before, anyway my husband has said no as why we should do my son any favours when he doesn't help us. I've supported my husbands decision as the house is equally ours but this makes their relationship even worse as my son resents him even more. Am I doing the right thing by supporting by husband over this? Any advice would be wonderful.

Thank you Snoozybirrd, that makes a lot of sense. Things are at such a point where my husband was going to leave but I persuaded him to stay so you can imagine how bad it is. So yes he is a good partner but at the moment I guess I don't like him much because I guess I think he's being unreasonable, but then I can understand it's tough too. I feel so torn, guilty, sad, upset, angry, resentful - so many emotions.

I get why you think your DH is being unreasonable but it might help to recognise that you're not starting out from the same position as he is.

Unless he splits up with you he is forced to share his house with an adult who refuses to pull his weight (you don't suggest DH wants your son out regardless, just wants him to behave responsibly). Unlike you though, he can't enforce appropriate expectations on your son because he's not his parent. That feeling of helplessness really takes its toll so when he comes home and finds the food cupboards raided - bang! He's at breaking point caused by the same incident that you yourself were able to cope with because you weren't starting out with the same lack of authority or level of resentment that your DH has.

One of the most useful things my counsellor told me was "What you feed grows; what you starve dies". If you continue to enable your son to be inconsiderate and lazy you'll feed his sense of entitlement to act however he pleases, whilst simultaneously starving your relationship with your husband because the love between you is being replaced by anger and frustration on both sides. Your son may be pissed off at you for insisting that he's helpful and considerate but ultimately it'll make him a nicer person. DH's frustrations will help no-one.

Another thing my counsellor said was that when it comes to parenting it's important to distinguish between what your child "wants" and what your child "needs". If you are fulfilling your child's "needs" (both material and emotional) then you are doing a good job.

At nearly 22yo, your son is working and can afford a room in a house share. He's been to Uni so you know he can cope away from home therefore the situation is that he "wants" to live with you but doesn't actually "need" to. In order for your marriage to survive, you as a couple obviously have a need for you, your house and your rules to be treated with respect, which your son could quite easily do but clearly doesn't want to. If you give him an ultimatum and he still refuses to pull his weight then you wouldn't be kicking him out, he would be making his own choice to not accept what you're offering him.

Of course you can choose to fulfil your son's "wants" as well as his "needs" and it's good to do that when appropriate, but when that "want" is detrimental to the relationship you have with your DH then you have to be prepared for your DH to decide that enough is enough. If your son moves out you could always keep the option open for him to move back in if he shapes up. If your DH moves out...it could easily become final. Then when your son eventually does get his own place where would that leave you?

Apologies for the epic post but understanding this dynamic has helped iron out a lot of issues in my own marriage. It's still bloody hard work though! Just remember that saying no to a "want" doesn't make you a bad mum, it can even make you a good one

I'm just really struck by 'I feel terrible telling my son no to anything'. Really? How have you got to him being 22 without becoming practised at saying no to him? And why?

How have you set boundaries and expectations for him in the past?

I have a pre-schooler and am trying and failing to imagine life without 'no' and without working at setting boundaries being an everyday part of parenting. You must have been able to say no once upon a time.

So my first impression is that you are massively indulgent and a doormat to your son, who you probably don't want to see as a grown up and to have to let go of. Unfortunately spoiling children is called spoiling for a reason. It damages them and their ability to relate to others.

Did something happen with your son's father that left you trying to compensate for his absence, or a difficult time, by deliberately spoiling your son and cushioning him from anything difficult in life?

The only way he's going to overcome both his attitude and his fear of, or just complacent unwillingness about doing anything difficult, is by having to, one way or another. Then he'll quickly find out that looking after himself isn't that hard but does take a bit of effort. Then he might appreciate the effort you and DH make a bit more.

Sorry if some of that sounds harsh but, on the other hand, there are plenty of 22 yos who behave the same way - if they can get away with it - and who will grow up later. Your son's behaviour is far from unique but it is a problem and does need dealing with.

Thanks snoozybird & lottiegarbanzo that's really good advice and very reassuring that I'm not being a bad mum. I have tried talking to my DS and he feels he does no wrong but I've said it's our house and our rules but then he just does it anyway and I end up hiding it from my husband so WW3 doesn't break out! My DH is very down at the moment with it all and my DS sees him as being moody, grumpy and mean but it wasn't always like this. As for why I struggle to say no I'm not really sure, his Dad left him when he was less than a year old but does have a relationship with him now but maybe somewhere I'm trying to compensate for something. I really find it hard to see him as an adult and not my little boy who needs me to protect him. I would struggle to give him an ultimatum as he'd move to his dad's and then id worry what people who think - silly I know, as I type that I feel silly saying it. I know I'm the key to sorting this out and I need to be tougher with my sons behaviour as my DH has never said he wants him to go just that he wants him to pull his weight and follow a few house rules.

Hello OP, good to see you back.

Did your son move away for his time at university? Does he have that experience of living independently and of appreciating your comfortable home when visiting?

It sounds as though he takes your home, funded by years of your hard work as an adult, completely for granted. Yet he couldn't fund anything of the sort for himself. Of course it's lovely that he can feel 'at home' when he's there and you'd always want him to want to visit you but that's not the same as having a never-ending right to live as your guest.

The other thing that really struck me, is that you only seem to mind the impact of your DS's behaviour on your DH, not on you. Why would you not mind being disrespected, lied to (about the tasks he's 'going to do later') and treated effectively as a servant, by your DS?

He doesn't have anything like the concern for your wellbeing that you have for his - or apparently much concern at all.

It must be really stressful for your DH, seeing you being treated so badly, daily.

Do think too about how your DS is going to behave with a future girlfriend or wife. Becoming habituated to 'letting someone else be the grown up' and to seeking to get away with doing as little domestic work as possible, is not healthy and will limit his options (it's not attractive behaviour) and his chances of maintaining a successful relationship.

You really would be doing him a favour, as well as your DH and yourself, if you set out and enforce some house rules - or help him look for a room in a shared house as an alternative.

It must be stifling and frustrating for him not to be able to invite friends over when it suits him, at his age. But, if he and they don't behave like proper guests, of yours and he's not pulling his weight as an adult member of the household, so be it. I'd be flat / shared house hunting in his position!

If he slinks off to his dad's house, people will think either nothing, or that he's rather lazy and undignified. They'll probably be secretly congratulating you for firming up your boundaries.

The other thing that emerges from your recent post (and I may well be reading this into it from almost nothing) is some idea that your son might feel he has some choice about whether your DH lives with you or not. As if, because DH seems grumpy and moody, to him, this is some challenge to a DH's right to be part of your - you and DS's - household. You're an adult. DS is an adult too. That sort of jealousy and proprietorial attitude to you would not be healthy.

Actually, your earlier post about DS resenting doing anything because he thinks 'DH doesn't help you much' really reinforces the idea of some sort of perceived rivalry between them.

The first thing to do about that of course is to get rid of the idea that anyone is 'helping you' with 'your' responsibility for running the whole household!

I know exactly how you feel. My husband has two older kids who are now married. My daughter recently moved home due to her partner cheating on her. Then she volunteered to go to Africa doing charity work for 3 months. Home now and a new boyfriend....she's happy again. Stayed at his parents house a few times but husband will not let him stay here. Says "it's his house" (it's ours) and he has no say. Boyfriend stayed last night.....it doesn't bother me. But husband is constantly looking to pick faults with her and I feel this is just one more thing. Now I have my daughter not happy and he's in a foul mood. So I know exactly how you feel. It's horrible

Hi Lottie & Nevis, thank you for your posts. My son spent 3 years away at uni and so has had experience of living on his own. I hate the way DS is disrespectful to me and often feel like a doormat as I ask him to help me and it's often 'maybe' or 'later'. I'm so disappointed that he's like that as I believe I brought him up to be better than that and in general he is a nice lad. There is some rivalry there in that my DS feels like why should he should he do the hoovering for example when my OH rarely does but then my OH cooks every day for us all and does other things, he also works very long hours and spends alot of time driving with his job so it's fair in my mind. I asked my DS to hoover this weekend, it's one of 3 jobs he has and all he would say is maybe and that obviously annoys me and annoys my OH even more! To top it all off my DS who pays a small amount of dig money has told me today that next month he is away for a week on holiday and a couple of weekends staying overnight at friends and he's said he's only paying half his digs for that month which I think isn't how real life works and there is no way that's going to happen. He then said good luck getting the other half off me, I'm so upset and want to share with my husband but daren't as ww3 will break out! Am I being unreasonable saying digs money still has to be paid in full, it's a small amount but I feel it's an important value that he needs to know life's not free!

I think your son is very disrespectful, but at the same time if he's away from home your food bill will be lower, at least.

I think it's time for your son to get himself a flatshare. If he was respectful to you, then it would be different, but he's not and you risk losing your own relationship with your partner over it. It's quite right that your partner objects to the way you're both treated.

You should sit down your son and tell him that he needs to be looking around for a flatshare. Remind him that when he was at university, if he'd refused to do anything around the house he wouldn't have had any friends. Tell him the way he's acting is immature and it's causing you huge problems with your partner. Remind him that if his attitude changes, he's welcome to stay but if he continues to be disrespectful, he can do it at a distance.

Some of the posts on here have been very helpful at putting my problems into perspective too. I guess its very easy for the mums to forget how the stepdad feels at times. But then again my other half finds it difficult to talk of how he feels without losing his temper then sulking. For that reason, I too am guilty of covering up some of my daughters faults........wrong I know but I just can't handle the stress at times.

Yes Nevis when it's like that it does make it difficult. My OH has just moaned about my son eating again late at night, I don't see the problem with that but I can appreciate that for my OH all these little things build up but I'm so tired of the constant complaints. I feel utterly miserable and sad at the moment :-((

Right, this thread has been going for nearly 2 weeks. Your last but one post just shows how disrespectful your DS is.

in general he is a nice lad......my DS who pays a small amount of dig money has told me today that next month ....he's only paying half his digs for that month He then said good luck getting the other half off me

That isn't nice in any shape or form. I would give him notice to leave (perhaps agree with OH) - 6 weeks max. Just get rid. But I sadly don't think you are going to.

Hi again,

About rivalry, I meant a bit more than competitive laziness (as your son might see it). What I was getting at is, does your DS see your DH as 'optional', an intruder? Is he actually trying to drive him out of your house?

You've said your DH has nearly left because of this. Is that really something your son is aiming for, either deliberately or as a 'bonus consequence' of his laziness?

The idea that he thinks he has any say over your relationships and who you choose to live with is quite worrying.

His refusal to pay gives you an easy get out, doesn't it. Essentially 'pay up or get out' but explained in terms of how little his contribution covers, how little he contributes practically and how is stroppy teenage attitude and thoughtless behaviour diminishes your quality of life.

Honestly, the colossal extent of his taking you for granted and his unpleasant arseyness are the behaviours of a particularly stroppy mid-teenager, not someone in their twenties. Again, you will be doing him and any future partner of his a favour by helping him grow up.

One thing to tackle, whatever happens next, is the idea that everything about your son is channelled though you. Your DH may have moved into your house but it's his home too now. He should be able to talk to your son directly about anything that's bothering him. He shouldn't have to 'put in a complaint to the management'. That belittles both of them.

Either this is a house share between three consenting adults, or, if your son is 'living with his parents' as a guest, your DH takes on a proper step-parent role. What you have at the moment, one adult, a mute sidekick and a child, is not tenable.

I suspect it will take your son moving out to establish that sort of more distant but friendly relationship with the two of you as 'the parents'.

Ultimately, do you want to lose your marriage over this? You do realise that, six months after your DH has finally thrown in the towel, your DS will find some fun friends or a girlfriend to move in with and you'll be on your own?

The DS is behaving horribly. Rude, dismissive of any of your feelings, spiteful, selfish, goading, superior. There must be extreme guilt (at not providing a secure two parent family for him??? or something) which is making you put up with this sad setup.

When people behave like your son I always wonder if they feel proud and happy over their dismissive, cruel treatment of the other person, I doubt it very much.

If you told him you were upset at his disrespect for you and that he must move out immediately you could be doing him a big favour as he surely isn't truly happy now.

Hi again, thank you for your comments. I think my DS would love it if my DH left as that way he'd get his way all the time. My DS spent most of his weekend at his dad's and when he came in, muttered a hello and carried on walking. I made sure I made some sort of conversation but it was very strained. My DS didn't even acknowledge my DH or vice versa. He went to his room and immediately did something that really annoys my DH, I've asked him millions of time not not to so WW3 broke out between my husband and I as my DH said how many times do we have to tell him and that yet again another week had gone by and DS hadn't helped in the house. I did tell my DS he had to hoover this weekend but he didnt, again! My DH has just gone to work and I'm lying in bed sobbing as I can't do this anymore. For the first time my DH said maybe he should go live with his Dad. I have an opportunity to talk to my son tonight alone but I know he'll be defensive and blame it all on my DH. I don't want to lose my son or my husband. I'm sorry this thread is rumbling on but its such a help being able to talk about it. Thank you

Right, practical advice.

Sit down with a piece of paper. Three columns: you, DH, DS. Write down all 'contributions' made to the house- financial, practical, one off and weekly. Show him how little he does.

Then do expectations- DS needs to pay more if he won't clean. Simple as that. Pay more and run a separate fridge and pay for that fridge and electricity, if he cannot respect the fact a fridge with shared food cannot just be dipped into.

Finally- basic respect- you say hello, you converse, you are civil and polite. You behave like an adult.

You MUST parent him, you are doing him a disservice to 'turn a blind eye' and 'let it slide'. It creates an entitled and difficult adult. Your DH is completely in the right- he has higher expectations of your son than you, that is love! Not saying no, accepting poor behaviour- that isn't what your son needs. You think he's a good lad? Then expect him to behave like one and point it out when he's being a prick!

If this was about small stuff, it wouldn't matter- but he's making your home a battle ground and he doesn't care!

You're never going to lose your son. You will lose your husband.

Your son might strop off to his dad's or elsewhere for a while but, if you make clear that you love him, it's the present domestic arrangement and his behaviour that you don't like, he'll understand that eventually.

In the end, it just doesn't work for you. With all due regret to him and your idea of domestic harmony. You don't even have to make asking him to leave about him, if you don't want to. It doesn't work for you. You want more space to enjoy life with your DH. Your choice.

In the meantime, all this 'war' between you and your husband can only happen if you are 'battling' on your DS's behalf. Otherwise it's your DH taking out his frustration by having a go at you, not an argument at all. That doesn't sound like nice behaviour either, much as his frustrations are understandable. You've all become stuck in some very unhealthy and unpleasant patterns of behaviour.

Tell him to make his 'war' with your son directly, not use you as a punchbag for his frustration. Why not? There's no doubt about what your son has been asked to do and not do, is there. So why wouldn't your DH take up failures to keep up his side of the agreement with him?

Could save time and cut to the point anyway. DH says 'stop that and do your hoovering', DS says 'you're not my dad, you can't tell me anything'. DH says 'actually, as your mother's husband and an adult in this household, who knows exactly what you've agreed to and been asked to do while you live here, I can'. DS says 'I hate you, you're not the boss of me, I wish you'd never come here, you make my mum miserable, you're abusing me, nobody here understands me, I'm going to my dad's', swears a lot, slams door, strops off (all in the manner of hormonal 14yo).

Job done and you don't even have to be the bad guy!

Sorry your still caught in the middle. How is the relationship between you and hubby when your son's not around? Ours is fine it only becomes touchy when daughters home but then she does spend much of her time in her room if she's in. If relationship with your man is good and you don't want to lose him, you should tell your son he either cuts his behaviour out and tow the line or he goes to live with his dad. Yes that will hurt you but long-term it will do him good and more importantly you need peace in your life. I share your pain.....hugs

Such good advice, thanks. Just tried talking to my DS whilst my OH not here. As I thought it was pointless, he said he isn't going to try as he hates living here and doesn't see why he should make an effort, also doesn't need me to do anything for him etc. I said he should go live with his Dad, I'm so upset :-(( he doesn't seem to care about my feelings but then I guess my OH doesn't either as I'm caught in the middle. Just don't know what to do know, i want to tell my OH as I'm upset but gives him more ammunition.

I did also ask why he didn't do the job I gave him to do at the weekend and he just said didn't want to, didn't want to. I've tried talking again he walked away and said I'm boring him, I'm not changing anything about what I do. Why is he being so horrid?! I've told him he needs to leave. My god it's hard :'-((

Your DS sounds like a little shit, you have unfortunately enabled his behaviour. He's being horrible because you have allowed him to for far too long, if you are luckly he will move out and your DH might stay. Your only in the middle because you have put yourself there.

Regardless of what he thinks of my OH I can't say I'm very upset with the way he's making me feel. I can't believe he won't put his feelings aside for his Mum. I know I've made the situation much worse :-/