dp's access issues

[wheresthelight]

how easy folks is it to get access orders from court?

dp and his exw agreed via mediation that they didn't want access to be court ordered and would set up a similar agreement via the mediator. this states that we have the kids eow and every Wednesday plus 50% of holidays and every other Christmas and new year (exw was not happy but mediator told her tough shit essentially).

she has started pissing about with contact and getting nasty about it and is now refusing to allow us our 50% over half term. this is setting a worrying president as it is our turn for Christmas and new years this year. our access weekend falls between the two songs should have the kids from xmas eve through to the Sunday and then new years eve through to Friday am. I am fully expecting her to have a couple plate shit fit when she realises this and I am pretty certain she will try and change and or refuse access.

so I am wondering if taking it to court so there are repercussions to her actions in future might not be something to float with dp but how easy is it to do?

I agree with others about the RP having ultimate control.

With my DHs ex he went to court because he let him have 1.5 hours a week in her house while she stood watching over him. She wouldn't even let him take them to the park at the end of the road or anything. We must have spent £7500 on applications, representation, contact centres, supervised handover costs, all sorts. It has been utter hell. I almost made myself ill trying to insist that she did things properly/as agreed and then I think it was WakeyCakey gave me a good talking to and I realised I was fighting a losing battle. Possession is nine tenths of the law and it shouldn't be the case where children are involved but it is. Even if our order isn't adhered to, it's up to us to apply for enforcement, another £215 application, legal advice, support from a mckenzie friend as we can no longer afford representation and even then the chances are we'd get told they wouldn't do anything without it being a pattern of missed contact. And even with a pattern of missed contact she'd probably get a slapped wrist. The family court is a joke, more of a circus than justice you would associate with a court system.

I have to be honest with you as well that I would be really cross if my ex's partner and he made another teacher/ parent appointment and went behind my back. I don't think things like that help your cause. I understand you want to help but if you do have a degree and are teaching training you can assist without seeming to be working against her.
I do understand why you feel upset but I would pick your battles carefully whatever they may be. If she feels undermined and that you personally are waging a war with her she may dig her heels in.

I did read your reply to Head which acknowledged that the Court won't care about your or your family's involvement. You then went on in great detail to describe how you have ensured your family has integrated the DSC.

I'm sure that's very reassuring for the ex and her family!

Most families deal with Xmas and other special occasions by sharing the time so that the DC get to spend suitable amounts of time with everyone in their lives.

I'm not having a go at you, and there's no need to be so defensive. The original arrangement, whether agreed or not, dictates that one parent cannot spend ANY time with their children on Xmas day, even though distance would allow that.

It clearly isn't working, and needs to be reviewed.

That is the basis on which your DP should approach this year's Xmas contact. You've said the shit is going to hit the fan this year. The responsible thing to do would be for you DP to start discussing this with the DSC mum now.

If it means they have Xmas Eve and wake up at home with their mum every year and come to you later in the day for a party in the evening and an extra special Boxing Day, would that really so bad?

I do get your points about being flexible and discussing it early and hr has tried but she is refusing to discuss other than she will think about what dp is allowed to have.

to be honest she is rarely discussed at our house, not through any deliberate avoidance but just because the kids don't really talk about her only really about their step sisters. if ever she is talked about it is always encouraged and positive. even when fil or mil when she was alive would say anything I would deliberately leave the room or refuse to answer because I never wanted to be seen to be negative or even talking about her if that makes sense.

I could be entirely wrong and she may just go along with what they agreed last year and be done with it but her previous history suggests otherwise and ultimately it's the kids that miss out.

wanna - why shouldn't dp arrange to see the teachers separate to her? he has as much right to know how the kids are doing and how best to help them. I haven't worked as a teacher for over 10 years and a lot has changed so no it isn't as straight forward as you think. I tutor privately and I always speak to the school in advance to ensure that I am not using different methods and am supporting and reinforcing rather than creating a bigger confusion.

The dynamic on this thread is really weird. I think you are doing your level best in a very difficult situation, OP, and somehow the fact that it is the DC's rights that are being denied to them is being overshadowed by this whole 'well I'd want to see my DCs at Christmas' thing.

They have a right to a stress-free, loving relationship with their father, nourished by regular, consistent, good-quality contact. Not having their holidays ruined on a whim or never knowing when Mum might refuse to let them come over for a weekend.

In your DH's situation, OP, I wouldn't hesitate to apply to court. DH was in much the same situation - of course it is hard, but it needn't be ruinously expensive (he can self-rep) and it does seem to take forever, and may make the situation worse in the short term. BUT in the vast majority of cases, the RP does abide by a robust court order and the outcome for the DC's in that case would be much better. Clear, defined contact and much less conflict.

I do parents evening with my ex. DH & I have a separate appt with DSCs teachers but that's because of the level of conflict between them. I never considered exW might see this as going behind her back but then she never tells DH anything about their schooling so he just finds out himself and attends as he would if he were the RP and not her.

me either head! and to be honest if it means dsc's get the help and support at home that she refuses to give then I really couldn't care less if she sees it as going behind her back. she has done it again this week with his high school parents evening. they have said his general knowledge and reading is very narrow and he needs to be encouraged to read more widely at home. Dp said that's fine we are happy to encourage that and exw just shrugged and said the school are just picking fault because he is so bright. it's nuts!

balia - thank you! dp would love to avoid court but he will also defend his kids right to have a relationship with him.

olgaga - if I said my family couldn't give a shit and treated them like outcasts would that make you happier??!! ffs I happen to love that my family have gone out of their way to include my dsc. and for the record it had nothing to do with me they did it off their own backs thanks

I don't think anyone is saying that he shouldn't. You asked how easy it was to go through court. My simple answer to that is not very.

to be honest if it means dsc's get the help and support at home that she refuses to give then...
This is where I agree with you

I really couldn't care less if she sees it as going behind her back
And this is where I don't. This part of your approach will be adding to the conflict between the two (three) of you. Conflict is bad. The children do pick up on it. No she shouldn't prevent his involvement with the school but not caring about the consequences of your actions isn't good either. My DH's ExW drives me insane. She has stalled me online, made me out to be a nutcase to the court, made my children out to be yobs to the court, tells the most horrific lies to her children to discourage contact. If she felt like we were going behind her back I would care about it. I would apologise that what I had done had distressed her, I would explain why I had chosen to do what I'd done and I'd have a think about whether I had done the right thing.

Perhaps you are just sounding off on here and God knows I've had some rants about exW in private but some of your posts do sound a little like you think you know what's best and that it should be implemented and it just isn't that straight forward.

it's not conflict because she is the sort of person who would use it as a stick to beat dp with if it bothered her. my point was that doing what is best for the kids is the most important thing and if the school feel that support should come from additional work at home then that's what all of us should be supporting but she unfortunately sees it as only the school's responsibility to educate her kids.

I am perhaps not articulating myself in the right way (dd is teething and full of cold so am very sleep deprived) but I do think you are reading more into what I am saying than I mean

It makes little difference to me but you may find it makes your journey through the court process much more difficult.

I agree with HeadDoctor.
I don't think your wrong in what you're saying but I think you haven't come across well in the way you are saying things.
You are speaking about their Mum in a very disrespectful way and coming across as if you think you know best. I am guessing that their Mum probably doesn't like you, she probably thinks you step on her toes because it sounds like you do.

It's lovely that your family have accepted your DSC with open arms but what about her family? Do they not deserve to see the kids too? Or are they all just irrelevant in your eyes?

The kids are fully aware of when they are with us and that they won't see their mum and couldn't care less.
Really? They don't care if they don't see their Mum at all over Christmas? Bollocks! They may say that or act like that but when it comes to the time they will.

I really think this is more about YOU getting the Christmas that YOU want and you think you're entitled to, mainly to get one over on their Mum because ''that's what she agreed to in mediation'', rather than doing what is best for the kids.
What if on boxing day the kids are upset because they want to see their Mum, would you turn round and tell them ''sorry you can't because your mum wouldn't let you see your dad last year'' ??
You just sound very up your own arse and very selfish I wouldn't like you to be my DC's stepmum. Maybe it's because of you that she's so difficult.

Why are you actually even that bothered? After all, this is mainly based on assumptions of what she will probably do and say, you don't know for certain yet. As much as I love my DSC if their Mum stops a visit for some reason, as shit and unfair as it is, I don't get myself worked up over it.

It's up to your DP and their Mum to sort out, butt out.

Sorry, but reading this I think no wonder there is a rise in murders and suicides at Christmas. It is just another feast day, that can be pleasant, but why do people get so hung up on it?

I've hardly even spent Christmas with my dd, now an adult, I just don't see what the fuss is.

butt out of what exactly? have I said I have spoken to her? no so stop making assumptions and being rude.

I didn't mean your dp shouldn't be involved in their parents evening but personally I wouldn't like my ex husbands partner doing something I would perceive as going behind my back. I honestly sympathise with your access problems but your approach would wind me up. I would feel undermined.
You may tutor and I teach English. You know how to help a child. You don't need clarification.
I have already emailed and spoken to my exh about Christmas. Why not nail down a few dates with a large dose of empathy for the sake of all.

what about her family? Do they not deserve to see the kids too?

OK, that's just rude. I'm sure you've read the bit where OP says that Mum (and presumably her family) had all of last Christmas? That her DH offered all manner of alternate arrangements that would have resulted in the DC's seeing all of their family but Mum refused?

Unfortunately, OP, being in this situation means you do get a lot of patronising, ill-informed advice about being flexible and reasonable and 'putting the DC first' when the reality is that every attempt to do so results in stonewalling and abuse. And of course, as a stepmum on MN, the three main responses you get are 'the poor kids, you obviously hate them', 'you knew what you were getting into, you have no right to complain' and 'they aren't your DC's, butt out'. And if you get upset because you are doing your best to help, support and love the DC and are being criticised for it, you get accused of being 'defensive' or 'jeez, why are you getting so worked up?'.

Actually, now I think about it, it's not bad practice for being a stepmum generally!

Pretty rude yourself there balia

Once again I hear you, about how inclusive you and your family have been. I'm certain that you would all provide a thoroughly enjoyable Xmas for the DSC - but this is not about your preferred Xmas.

I think you'd be a damn sight happier if you took the very good advice you've been given to butt out.

Right now you sound like you've got your hands full. On top of that you're so full of hostility against your DPs ex it radiates from every single post. It's hard to believe you're hiding this level of hostility from everyone around you.

You need to stop focussing on the ex She's your DSC mum and always will be. That won't change, but the situation woll evolve as time goes on and the DSC get older.

This is your DPs issue to deal with, not yours. There's a noticeable absence in your posts about what DP thinks about Xmas, if and how he wants to approach discussions with his ex, his preferred outcome or compromise position. Is he actually considering making an application to court? It sounds like you're on a mission to persuade him.

Ask yourself what good would it do for the DSC to know that your DP is taking their mum to court to prevent her from seeing them on Xmas day.

Because I imagine that's exactly how it'll be presented.

Of course you will find here a range of views, from those seeking to promote compromise, to those like balia who like to promote a "SM as victim" mentality.

The truth is that the welfare of the children is ALL the courts look at.

I still think there is plenty of scope for an approach along the lines that I and others have encouraged. She will not want to cooperate with the ecisting agreement.

Forget about what happened last year. Focus on what is the best arrangement for all parties this year.

We have the same problem wheresthelight, we're supposed to have DSS for half of half term, except he's told his dad, mum wants him to stay with her because she will be lonely, and now she is having DSS for his xmas, birthday and NY this year. We are supposed to alternate each year so we can see him. It's not just us either it's our children, they will probably only get to spend one xmas with DSS, which we videoed thankfully as they will not remember it as they were tinies.

DSS is under a lot of pressure to please his mum for her emotional needs it really gets to me. The woman is married and has other children, and it annoys me to my core. I used to get it all the time from my mother, and I loathed it so much. I hated her in the end for it as she carried on doing it when I was an adult. she didnt want me to live my life, go to uni, get boyfriends a job away from the area. So controlling and manipulative. I don't say anything to DSS but inside I ache for him because I've been in that shitty position having to do what mum wants when you want to be with dad.

The thing is though all this discussion is academic as you still need to ask what the plans are.....

My experience of court is that it has just made for even more animosity. My ex kicks off every time we try and negotiate the holidays and seems to think the fact he took me to court gives hims the right to treat me like a piece of shit.

The whole family court system is heartless and putting my children's lives in the hands of magistrates is something I desperately tried to avoid.

Firstly apologies for not reading the whole thread, just the last few entries and possibly repeating what others have suggested already.

I think I've been in a similar situation of not understanding why DP's ex doesn't want seems to be blatantly obviously in the best interests of the kids. Repeatedly.

But someone gave me this sage advice - You can't change the ex's behaviour.

That is fundamentally true, and it's so much easier to go with the fow when you accept that.

All you can do is be proactive and positive where you think the kids would enjoy something - give ex the chance of turning the opportunity down first. Or find a different/novel way of achieving the same otucome.

You want a memorable happy Christmas all together? In Denmark they have Christmas dinner and present giving on Christmas Eve. Theme it as well, make some glug type wine (kids version), lots of reindeer/snow decorations etc

Why not do that? Or Boxing day/the first/last day you see them after/before xmas? As long as they know it's happening they'll be just as excited.

You can still spend Xmas day with your family and there will still be a special day for the DSC. Your kids will enjoy it too (you did say you have some?)if they have presents to give to the DSC, and receive in return - two Christmases.

It will be in your 'agreed' time, so it can't be cause for a row?

Don't fight the fight out of principle, just dodge the punches.

Left handed I couldn't agree more.

lefthanded that is exactly what we did last year, we had the kids the weekend between Christmas and new years so we had our own Christmas day at that point. just hope her wanting to spite dp for whatever her justification is doesn't effect the kids.

they have been here today (we got 1 day of half term in a 50/50 agreement) and have been excitedly yapping away about Christmas and hoe excited they are to spend the actual day with their sister (mine and dp's dd).

exw hasn't decided yet what access if any dp she will allow dp so I can see ww3 erupting if she tries to deviate from the custody agreement. I am happy to be flexible over boxing day but I am not having her dictate Christmas day itself when she won't even allow dp to ring when it's her year

But what you want/are happy to be flexible about/won't stand for is irrelevant. What you want comes after what the kids want and what your dp and his ex manage to agree.

It's so easy to get caught up in the fight for what seems fair to you but really, you need to take a step back. Let dp fight his own battles.