AIBU? Ds's mum seems to think I am!!!

[GetBackYaBastards]

Hi everyone, just wanted to gauge opinion on this matter....

DP has 2 DD's who we have every weekend and one week night (Wednesdays). Everything is fine, we all get on fine and I get on well with DD's mum.

Anyway, about January this year, DD's mum asked me if I would pick up DD's on a Wednesday from school as her work hours had changed and instead of finishing at 2, she would now be starting at 2 meaning she can't fetch DD's. It was meant to be a one off, but it became a regular occurrence and eventually lead to me getting them every week. (DP used to fetch them at 7 when he finished work,
Have a hour with them then they would go bed, he'd then take them
To school on the morning)

Anyway, I do not work Wednesdays so it wasn't a problem per se but I didn't really like it being a weekly thing as I felt I couldn't ever say no and couldn't make plans on that day. When the school holidays came around, i stopped collecting them and the original way resumed. DD's sister had them on Wednesdays when their mum was at work.

So fast forward to yesterday. I have been away on holiday for the first 2 weeks of September with my mum, so obviously missed the start of term. Got back at the weekend (dd's mum knows i was away) and receive a text message asking if I am ok to get the girls Wednesday. I wasn't 100% comfortable in replying so asked DP to speak to ex to say the situation no longer works for me and I don't mind fetching them in an emergency but I just don't want to commit to getting them every single week.

Ex completely over reacts when she is told this, asking what is wrong with her kids and why am I unwilling to spend time with them? FYI I spend all their contact time with them and look after then if DP goose out while they are here.

Dp says it's up to me what I want to do. I know in a way IABU but at the same time as much as I love them they aren't my children and it is not my responsibly. And during the holidays she managed to find childcare to cover Wednesdays so why is it a problem now? And it wasn't even discussed with me, just assumed that I'd be fine!

This probably makes no sense at all so thanks for reading if you have!!

Oh and for those interested, me and dp have been together 5 years, and the girls are 11 and 8

Hmm I see where you're coming from. She is being a bit cheeky and unreasonable to assume you will mind them on wed. But in the end you did get involed in this family and this is the kind of thing (functioning!) families do. You say you love them so what's the issue really? If you're not available a week just tell her in advance so you don't feel tied down. Or maybe say you'll do it every second week or something?

They won't be kids forever seems like a pity to be fighting about it. How do you think they would feel if they got wind of what was happening?

Op, yes I do still see it as dps problem even though she changed her hours because I would see it as her helping him out if she had them on his day because of work but none of that changes the fact that you don't have to take on every Wednesday. Personally I think dp should be leaving work at an earlier time once a week and using after school clubs or something. Most run until 6 but that's just what I would do!

It is unreasonable that the parent who isn't having the child overnight is somehow saddled with the responsibility of making arrangements to pick up and care for the child until 7pm. I think your partner needs to realise that he has been very, very lucky she has gone along with this for so long as there are plenty who wouldn't have.

There seems also to be an assumption that mum in this case has changed her working hours and had a responsibility to request her ex's permission if that was OK before doing so. I certainly don't answer to my ex - he's an ex for a reason and I'm not about to ask his permission to change my job! Regardless, there is no suggestion that mum had any control over her work environment (ie that she's changed jobs) but rather that she works somewhere where her shifts have been changed. She may have had little choice in agreeing to that (although she may have done it deliberately, I accept that). What would have happened if she had consulted her ex and he had said no? In a worse case scenario it could have resulted in the loss of her job but that's OK?

I don't think it's your responsibility, OP, but I don't think mum is unreasonable to want her ex's household to actually take full responsibility for a child they are having overnight. That would, in my experience at least, be 'normal' practise.

Exactly, he is the dad and he is the one that has to make the effort and the one whose priority is to spend time with his children, not her,

I have done the babysitting in non contact days for my partner's ex, but both partner and his ex see it as being kind of me, not my responsibility. I think I would be furious if either of them (particularly my partner) expected me to babysit every single one of my free days.

It is unreasonable that the parent who isn't having the child overnight is somehow saddled with the responsibility of making arrangements to pick up and care for the child until 7pm.

Surely that depends on the arrangements between parents?

Despite several posters referring to this as contact, and calling the OPs DP the NRP, it's clear from her post that this is a shared care arrangement.

In those cases, it is necessary for parents to agree a time at which care transfers, in order to ensure that care/responsibility for the DC is maintained.
If that has been agreed around one parents work commitments, then so be it - it's "fair" because both parents have agreed.

If one of the parents chooses or is compelled to work during the time they are responsible for the DC, then the responsibility to make alternative arrangements lies with them.
In the OPs case, the parent who is responsible for the DC (mum) did make arrangements; she asked the OP. Those arrangements have now broken down - and it is up to the DCs mum to make alternative arrangements; either negotiating with the OPs DP to changing the care arrangements so that responsibility for their DD lies with him at that time, or secures an alternative care arrangement.

The OP is not compelled to care for her DSC just because neither parent is available, regardless of previous arrangements.

"The only thing is is that dp has been fetching them at 7 for the last 3 years and the only reason it changed was because she asked me for the favour due to her change in work hours so would you say it's still his responsibility even though she was the one who changed the hours?"

So what you're saying is that she's spent five years doing him a favour by having them for five extra hours on "his" day to accommodate his working hours and so she has to do that forever. He can work late on "his" day without paying for childcare, but if she wants to work late on "his" day then she'll have to pay for childcare, because everything has to fit round his job even though they aren't married any more?

IMO you ANBU not to want to commit to having them every week, but it should be your DH's responsibility to make some arrangement for those hours (with someone else if you won't do it).

Surely that depends on the arrangements between parents?

As I said, I don't consider it reasonable that any parent should have to make arrangements for a child they are not having overnight.

Surely it's the responsibility of the parent making changes to ensure childcare is in place.

The ex's hours have changed so, it seems to me, it's up to her to make arrangements for childcare. The old system worked for 3 years and she's the one who wants to make changes.

fedup irrespective of whether the parents agree or not?

When I think back to the various arrangements I had with my ex regarding DD (shared care 50:50) you'd undoubtedly consider both of us unreasonable!

Surely anything is reasonable as long as it's acceptable to both parents - or do you think parents should avoid any arrangement that other people, such as yourself, don't agree with?

I don't think you're being unreasonable.

But the most tactful thing to do might be to invent some commitment on a Wednesday afternoon that means you can't pick them up, rather than you don't want to.

You might also want to think how things are going to work in the longer term though - at 8 and 11 your DSC aren't far off being old enough (distances permitting) to make their own way to your house after school. It becomes harder to say no to caring for DSC who are technically old enough to be home alone, even if in reality you're the one who's having still to do quite a bit for them when they are around.

Agree your DP should be arranging childcare - the ex would presumably say that she dealt with the change in her working hours by asking you to have them and as you did so for many weeks, she'd assumed that was a regular thing. So now it's up to your DP do find a solution to the fact that you no longer want to pick them up.

Though finding childcare til 7pm is limiting. If he's out earning money that's for your family, it might be reasonable to suggest he pays for an after school club but that you pick up at 5 or 6pm. The only option that would cover til 7pm would be a child minder or nanny in most areas - and that's not always easy to find.

"Surely it's the responsibility of the parent making changes to ensure childcare is in place."

I don't think so necessarily. Imagine a hypothetical divorced couple - she's been a SAHM, only one of their children is school age and she's not working FT (or possibly at all). The split is amicable so although there's theoretically 50-50 care she's initially happy to help out ex by fitting times around his work commitments. So he continues in his career unfettered by childcare issues and has no childcare costs at all. Then the children get older, the younger goes to school, and the mother wants to find a job or increase her hours. By your argument she is forever bound by the arrangements she made to be helpful when she wasn't working, so either has to find a job that fits perfectly around her ex-husband's FT working hours and the Times she has the children or else she has to suck up 100% of the cost of childcare. He still has to make no compromises, pay for no childcare, continue in a FT job as though he had no other commitments? Because she was initially happy to be helpful?

I think it's interesting that the exW is still taking on the responsibility for arranging childcare, including contacting the OP rather than her ex and saying "I now work on Wednesday afternoons so can't look after the children on your contact afternoon, you will have to make arrangements from 2pm onwards." And if those arrangements are that the OP's DP asks her to do the care, then that would be an issue between them.

If both parents work on a day, then the parent who has overnight care should be the one to arrange the after school care. Apart from anything else, it's got to be after school care that the parent having the DCs can get to easily and pick up etc It makes sense it's their job.

OP, your DP has got off 'lightly' for a long time as his exP didn't work fulltime, but you need to nip in the bud the attitude that the childcare issue is something the ExP sorts for your DP, including contacting you directly to sort it on the days you might do. It's not her job to arrange what you as a couple decide to do, just to inform your DP he has to make arrangements.

Childcare isn't a "responsibility" you take on when you get with a man with children.

I disagree with this - you knew he had kids when you met him! Although technically not your responsibility, it is the responsibility of you and your DP as a couple to sort the childcare. If DP decides not to do it, sadly it will fall to you.

I think the mum has been rather understanding up to now!

Be interesting to see her take on all this

OP - suggest DP sorts out something! Suggest you get a hobby of some description which means sadly you can't!

I don't think you can claim a shared care or 50-50 arrangement if the Mum is still expected to be the default childcare even on days when Dad has the children overnight. Frankly if I was the Mum in this case I wouldn't be willing to take on the burden of organising or paying for childcare so that my Ex could come along at 7pm for his overnight. If I had to do all that I would expect the children to stay with me that night, so I at least had the pleasure of their company as payback for the effort and cost. Otherwise its a pretty miserable and restrictive arrangement just to accommodate Dad seeing them for an hour and claiming to be equal carer.

Although technically not your responsibility, it is the responsibility of you and your DP as a couple to sort the childcare. If DP decides not to do it, sadly it will fall to you.

What? Why?

They're not the SMs DCs! She has absolutely no obligations towards them!

stepparents don't have any influence or say in the decisions made by their DSCs parents, so I fail to see why, if the parents fail in their responsibilities towards their DCs, it falls to a stepparent to pick up the pieces!

It's that kind of naive and simplistic expectation that is a factor in the significantly higher proportion of failed second marriages/relationships.

Of course, if the stepparent is willing, and the parents agree, the stepparent can take that kind of role in their DCs lives; but to expect all stepparents to automatically fulfil a third parent role is inevitably going to lead to frustration and resentment.

I don't think you can claim a shared care or 50-50 arrangement if the Mum is still expected to be the default childcare even on days when Dad has the children overnight.

Of course you can, if it's agreed by both parents - not everyone operates on a standard Mon-Fri 9-5 timetable. If the parents agree that sharing care includes the child spending time during the day in the company of one parent while the other is at work, that is no less "shared care" then if the child spent that time with professional childcarers.

In the OPs case,she was approached by her DSC mum. It was mum that took it upon herself to make alternative arrangements for her DCs care during that time - she could have asked grandma, next door neighbour, or a professional nanny. And just like if grandma got too frail, the neighbour moved, or the nanny resigned, the person who made the arrangement is faced with the prospect of making alternative arrangements now the OP is no longer available.
If the mum decides she wants to change the way in which responsibility for care is split, so that her DCs dad is responsible for them earlier in the day, then that is her choice - but it places the decisions about childcare during that time with him - she cannot then object to the arrangements he puts in place.

you say you have them every weekend? Is their mum off at the weekend.
Do you work Mon-Fri with Wed mid week off and the weekends off?

I think it would be a bit harsh if mum is off all w/end and does not have the kids but OP is also off, she and her DH have them and she also has them on her extra day off. When does she get some time to herself

Surely anything is reasonable as long as it's acceptable to both parents - or do you think parents should avoid any arrangement that other people, such as yourself, don't agree with?

but the parents in this scenario (well, one of them) are no longer happy with the situation? If it works for the family, fine, who I am to argue, but I don't agree personally with the concept of one parent 'caring' for children on the other parent's time, except in emergencies and the unforseen. It's messy and it crosses divorce/separation boundaries - hence we now have a situation where perhaps neither side is unreasonable but actually both parents here are working so what is supposed to happen? If the CSA were involved (no idea if they are or not), the parent paying maintenance would have a reduction for the overnight contact - which kind of backs up 'legally' my suggestion that it's that person's responsibility to find cover. Of course, that's assuming that the father in this case is paying maintenance (it looks like there's shared care so perhaps he isn't) which clouds the situation even further. Possibly the solution is to agree to half the cost of childcare between them so neither ends up worse off than the other? Or, if mum is paying maintenance, perhaps some kind of deal can be done there? It seems complicated - it may be far simpler than my understanding of it - which would have been avoided had the person who has overnight deals with pick ups/childcare been applied.

If it's your DHs day to be responsible for the kids it should be him arranging childcare. He should ask you to help him out and then if you want to say no it's between him and you. As mum presumably sorts childcare all the rest of the week he should be able to manage one day

And no you're not being a bitch - I wouldn't want that commitment either. But it's your husbands favour to ask, not the mums. He's had it lucky for four years now it's time for him to step up

I don't agree personally with the concept of one parent 'caring' for children on the other parent's time, except in emergencies and the unforseen.

But what defines a parents "time" in a shared care arrangement? I certainly read the OP to mean that the dads "time" with the DCs has (for several years) begun at 7pm when he finishes work.

Particularly in shared care arrangements, is it not reasonable for a DC to spend every evening after school with one parent who is available, while at the same time, spending half their nights/mornings/weekends with one parent and half with the other?

Would you say that the parent with whom the DC spends time every day is 'caring for the DC on the other parents time'?

I have actually been in this position, and quite unreasonably at the time used it in an attempt to redefine the care of my DD from "shared care" to residence and non-residence. My solicitor put me firmly back in my place and left me in no doubt that in the eyes of the law, a DCs time with their parents is not divided up neatly in 24 hour chunks.

but the parents in this scenario (well, one of them) are no longer happy with the situation?

In this scenario, The Mum isn't happy because the OP is no longer able to care for the DCs - there is no suggestion that she objects to the arrangement made between herself and her ex as the DCs parents .

The OP is not a "representative" of her ex - if the mum wants to change the care arrangement she and her DCs dad have put in place, she should deal with the OPs DP directly - not expect the OP to deputise for both parents and be unpaid childcare.

I agree with everyone else, your dp is responsible for childcare that day. He should ask you for your help and make other arrangements if you choose to say no.

However, if you refuse that will affect your finances, obviously I don't know how you arrange your finances our share your money but the mother shouldn't be out of pocket for childcare on your dps day.

oh for goodness sake, wakey, you are making it into something that it isn't. Parents are within their rights to make whatever arrangements work for them. And at no point have I suggested that the OP should just suck it up and get on with it.