Are your children’s vaccines up to date?

Set a reminder

Please or to access all these features

Step-parenting

Connect with other Mumsnetters here for step-parenting advice and support.

Some resources if you are wondering about parentification and spousification

117 replies

brdgrl · 03/08/2014 18:18

This is a long post, but I do think it may be useful for some posters; if you think it may be relevant to you, do have a look.

With some regularity, there are posts on this board from stepparents (usually stepmums, but then the board is mainly used by women) who are concerned about what they feel might be an unhealthy relationship between their DSC (usually their stepdaughter) and the DSC’s father. These posts are invariably met with hostility from people who see it as an attack on the DSC. In at least some of these cases, it may be that the poster is observing one of the processess known as spousification or parentification. Having some admittedly non-professional experience with the situation, I am creating this thread to both present a corrective to some ignorance being bandied about on the board, and to offer some resources to posters who may find them relevant.
It appears that people are very uncomfortable with the therapeutic concepts of parentification, spousification, and parent-child boundary dissolution. I suppose they are tough ideas to grasp for some, and so they have decided that these concepts are the creation of bloggers, evil stepmothers, and quacks.

It is very unfortunate, since understanding the concepts, and making a careful judgement, assisted by a professional, about their application to a family’s situation, can make a world of difference for the child involved. It is also wrong to suggest that these concepts somehow “blame” the child; in fact, if nothing else, they surely present an alternative interpretation, based on the idea that the child is NOT to blame, but the family dynamic. This is a very positive idea, as with help and effort, that dynamic can be altered.

The terms used by professionals are parentification and spousification (I've never heard mini-wife except on here myself, and I don't think it is a useful term; there are also clearly a lot of fools confusing it with the actual therapeutic concepts). I am not a professional myself and do not claim to have a practioner's knowledge, but that of someone who has experienced it and read about it. When it was suggested to us that FST might be a good approach, and that DSD had been 'spousified', that was the first I really knew about it. I don’t claim to be an expert, and that is why I am mainly just going to provide resources so that people can do their own research, as I have done. I will add that my DH and I found support in dealing with the issue from Relate and also from a private counsellor, and that was very useful.

Parentification is a widely recognized therapeutic concept, describing a very real dynamic that affects bereaved or fractured families. Those who have identified it and built therapeutic models around it are not quacks or bloggers or people with a degree they bought off the internet. They are highly respected professionals

If I may be permitted to summarize the concept, and with apologies to the professionals - the main issue is that the healthy boundaries of parent/child are lost. The child is treated as a peer and partner, rather than as a child. This often means that the daughter (or son because that happens too) takes over the role of the mother in terms of companionship and decision-making. Many times she also takes over adult responsibilities, such as domestic duties and childcare. Obviously there are many teenage girls who do housework and look after siblings, but this is more than that. It is about the role within the larger family structure and the emotional demands upon the child. Sometimes this happens, for instance, when the mother dies and the daughter tries to fill the gap left behind, especially where the father is not able to adequately maintain boundaries or meet the kids' emotional needs himself because of his grief. It also can happen in divorce or even within intact families.

In other cases, the DSD does not take on the adult household responsibilities, but does take on the role of social partner, and is given inappropriate decision-making powers or included in age-inappropriate activities.

These children suffer from the dynamic, even though it is superficially very satisfying to them. They generally lack good peer relationships, and may suffer from excessive perfectionism; they often feel a great deal of stress and may blame themselves for things that are outside of their control. There may be a strong affect on their ability to have healthy adult relationships. It can be very damaging not just to the child, but to other children in the home, and of course to the adult relationships as well.

OP posts:
Are your children’s vaccines up to date?
brdgrl · 04/08/2014 20:41

Over and over again the point has been made that the'cause' is the parenting of the child. It is not t

OP posts:
brdgrl · 04/08/2014 20:52

not the childs 'fault'. That is not in question and the continued insistence on pursuing that line of "disagreement" suggests that some are euther incapable of interpreting the concept properly or are deliberately trying to derail the thread from something useful and fact-based, to something they are more comfortable with, the 'outing' of the evil stepmother.
The literature is there. If you are still confused about the concept or cannot put aside ideas of blame to understand what systemic therapy means, I suggest you carry on reading. Your insistence on denying and distorting ideas you do not comprehend or find unpleasant is holding you back.

OP posts:
GarlicAugustus · 04/08/2014 20:55

Your insistence on denying and distorting ideas you do not comprehend or find unpleasant

Whose? Mine? Confused

brdgrl · 04/08/2014 20:58

garlic the emphasis with our own counselor was on re-establishing boundaries and on allpwing DSD to be a child while also reestablishing the roles of others in the family.

OP posts:
GarlicAugustus · 04/08/2014 21:00

Brd, do you think it might be helpful for other parents to outline how you went about that, and some of the strategies you used?

brdgrl · 04/08/2014 21:38

garlic no no sorry that"you" was not directed at you, i meant a more general "you" meaning posters who keep insisting on the idea that this approach 'blames' the child. sorry...i was combining two points in one post and was unclear

OP posts:
brdgrl · 04/08/2014 21:46

i am on holiday and typing on my phone so really sorry, responding to posts earlier in thread.

regarding posting about my own family's experience, would thay be helpful? i think it might but am wary of making this thread an opportunity for a personal argument with posters who are hostile to the theory. Or those who are hostile to anything posted by me. i also would not like to give the impression that my experience is universal.
genuinely, what would be helpful? perhaps we could leave this as a resource thread and i could post separately about my family?

OP posts:
GarlicAugustus · 04/08/2014 23:29

Phew! Thanks, brd Grin
Hope you're having a good holiday.

MrsTeee · 04/08/2014 23:32

I don't mind which, brdgrl, but I'd like to add my voice to those saying how useful the info on this thread is.

Anormalfamily · 05/08/2014 06:39

Thanks also for this thread from me...
Dh and I are actually in couple counseling "dealing" with just this. 18 months later there is little dh has chosen to change.
And all I can reasonably do is detach.
I've read numerous books on healthy boundaries, the best explanation I feel comes in Stepcoupling, recommended on mn. That allowed me to sum up my feelings better when asked to explain my discomfort at home in therapy.
Dh denies nothing, but does prefer to make exw more responsible for creating a golden child.
We were given v easy instructions, I.e seeing ourselves as a team, a united front that discusses everyone's welfare and makes joint decisions. I've own ds so know a bit about parenting, and was more than eager to also make sure I wasn't making same mistakes raising him. I took everything on board and so did dh, for a while at least. The difference in dsd behaviour was quite unbelievable. She was finally allowed to be the sweet natured caring girl she is, no pressure to perform for dad and stroke his ego. He couldn't handle it and undermined me at every turn.
As dsd is now 17 even the therapist has decided she's too old to change and will have to seek her fortune far away from the family to regain her compusure and sense of self. I was v upset and quite livid at both their "oh, well, we tried, that's that then" response.
To me this signals that dh may carry on leaning on dsd and not address his own ishoos, my forced detachment is making me an enabler, and our couple problems, I.e my feeling that dh was drawing boundaries between us as a couple, are off the table Confused.

brdgrl · 05/08/2014 08:48

garlic yes having a wonderful time so far ad all the kids being fab, was worried they would find setup too rustic but all quite cheerful!
mrstee thanks. glad it is useful.
anormalfamily that is such a shame. has DSD already gone away then? there is so little we can do to make things work better if our DP isnt able or willing to stick to it and i think that the feelings of powerlessness and loneliness then set in.
stepcoupling was very good i thought for just the reason you say...it really helped me to broach the subject of my concerns with DH and by reading it i think he began to look differently at things.

OP posts:
whyonearthdoyouthink · 05/08/2014 09:00

brdl my view is posters with no experience will insist that they know best and SM is evil - of course you are going to get a disproportionate number of posts on a forum - many SPs arrive here literally at the end of their tether, feeling desparate and alone and those who recognise and empathise with those feelings will post in support.

SPing in my family had 2 polar extremes, my extremely troubled SCs who I frequently posted about and then the excellent relationship between my dc and their step dad which did not need posting about
.

In addition I have a good relationship with my step dad which I had no need for support for and therefore did not post about.

So 2/3 of my SP experiences were positive but it was the 1/3 not positive that I needed supporting over.

Anormalfamily · 05/08/2014 12:27

Brdgrl, dsd regularly stays with gps abroad during holidays and will probably continue to do so. When she comes home she is sweetness and light for a few weeks and then old patterns return. In all likelihood it's a combination of no rules at mums, and dh here who won't put himself out parenting.
Whyonearth, similar experiences here, ds and dh have a relatively respectful, good natured relationship, and my only worries are when I perceive dh doing something to undermine that. Shame really.
I can ruminate or post here til I'm blue in the face really, but we know our dps are required to act.
Looking forward to brdgrl's revelations! Maybe there's hope for us yet!?

gingercat2 · 05/08/2014 12:44

I think maybe I can see this happening with my DD who is 6, and my exP who is female (as am I). ExP was my partner when I had DD but is not biologically related to her, and now has DD about one third of the time.

I don't know what to do about it. Will start with reading some of the suggested articles and books.

FlossyMoo · 10/08/2014 13:47

Hello brd I hope you are having a nice holiday.

I have taken the time to read your post and the accompanying links. It does make for very interesting reading. I have my own thoughts to add.

While I do not disagree with the premise of sposification and it's namesakes I do not think that the majority of situations that are posted on these boards meet the very detailed examples that you have provided.

I do not disagree that when a child is put in a position of assuming an adult/partner role it has damaging consequences. I also do not disagree that this does sadly happen.

However where we appear to differ is that I do not agree to these terminologies/diagnosis being banded about by unqualified people. That to me causes damage and does not support the OP but merely gives them what can be a false reason/label.

We have, as it is often said on MN, but a small window in to somebodies life. The fact that such professionally sounding advice backed up by internet information is handed out worries me.

For me if I genuinely suspected that spousification was happening I would advise the OP to seek professional advice. The same way I would not proceed to give medical advice to somebody with a dangerous illness because I am not qualified so I would say A & E or GP.

When somebody in need or is desperate they can jump on the first thing they hear/read. How many times has someone self diagnosed a terrible illness because they googled their symptoms and they were wrong?
For me the same applies.
A poster reading all this info can make it fit their situation even it if it wrong. It is the need to find an immediate answer that drives people to jump on the bandwagon.

What happens then?
Nothing.
The poster has an unqualified diagnosis and does not have the professional support to apply it to their situation (probably because it doesn't fit) so in turn is unable to apply the positive techniques to fix it.
Does this improve the posters situation?
In my opinion it does not it fact it makes it worse and the destructive behaviour continues only now it has a label.

I am not attempting to blame the SP's and name all DSC as angels. I just believe that encouraging posters to put their feelings of hate/resentment/jealousy/labelling aside and looking at the adults involved behaviour first will have a much more positive result.

If I really do think spousification is the issue then my advice would be to seek proper help from one who is qualified to give it.

brdgrl · 12/08/2014 21:17

Hello brd I hope you are having a nice holiday.
It was lovely, thank you.

While I do not disagree with the premise of sposification and it's namesakes I do not think that the majority of situations that are posted on these boards meet the very detailed examples that you have provided.
I have no idea how many posters are dealing with the dynamic. I am sure at least a few are, and if this helps them to take steps - or encourage their partner to take steps - to address it, then I am happy.

However where we appear to differ is that I do not agree to these terminologies/diagnosis being banded about by unqualified people. That to me causes damage and does not support the OP but merely gives them what can be a false reason/label.
I have seen no evidence on this thread or any other of "unqualified people" making a diagnosis. I have seen on other threads people describing symptoms, which may or may not meet the 'criteria' a professional might require. But when one observes symptoms, one should seek advice and help - from a professional, certainly, but if one is told (as has been repeatedly and very irresponsibly posted on these boards) that the problem can't possibly exist, or is all in one's mind, or that it is offensive to even consider it - then one is far, far less likely to seek help.

We have, as it is often said on MN, but a small window in to somebodies life. The fact that such professionally sounding advice backed up by internet information is handed out worries me.

If a person observes a problem within their family, they are entitled to seek resources to help address that. If they suspect that the problem involves the well-being of a child, they are obliged to do so.

Self-diagnosis is never a good idea. But self-education is a very good idea. The resources listed here are emphatically not i"internet information", but peer-reviewed professional and academic publications. They do not address individual situations or attempt to make any sort of diagnosis, but they do provide a wealth of information both to reassure people that there may be help available to them, and to arm them with information to seek that help.

Nothing here has suggested that a person make a self-diagnosis and treat the symptoms themselves. I believe that this thread has been quite clear in saying that there is therapy available for families who need help.

For me if I genuinely suspected that spousification was happening I would advise the OP to seek professional advice. The same way I would not proceed to give medical advice to somebody with a dangerous illness because I am not qualified so I would say A & E or GP.
As I have done, repeatedly.

When somebody in need or is desperate they can jump on the first thing they hear/read. How many times has someone self diagnosed a terrible illness because they googled their symptoms and they were wrong?
And how many times has someone ignored a symptom because someone else has pooh-poohed it, or because they have gotten misinformation on the internet? This thread was a response to the claims of a faction of posters who - because of their own ignorance - claimed that this was not a recognised family dynamic. They are factually wrong. Someone who is concerned about a funny-looking mole may ask for advice. Being told "that could be skin cancer; here are some links to physicians' advice regarding moles and skin cancer; you should really get that looked at" is appropriate. Being told "stop being vain; you can't get skin cancer at your age" is not. (Or, as happened to a now-deceased relation, being told "you read too many women's magazines")

The poster has an unqualified diagnosis and does not have the professional support to apply it to their situation (probably because it doesn't fit) so in turn is unable to apply the positive techniques to fix it. Does this improve the posters situation? In my opinion it does not it fact it makes it worse and the destructive behaviour continues only now it has a label.
And yet we know that hundreds of posters have been helped by being similarly advised about labels that may fit, and who have subsequently gotten help for their child - whether it be with a learning difficulty, a toileting problem, or a medical illness. Again, education is often the first step towards accessing help. Denial stops people from getting help. As long as there are still people posting about how this is all "pseudo-science" or "jealousy", there will be people who are stopped from getting help, and children who will suffer as a result.
I have been very clear in saying that my experience of this is as one who has experienced it and gotten help with it.

I am not attempting to blame the SP's and name all DSC as angels. I just believe that encouraging posters to put their feelings of hate/resentment/jealousy/labelling aside and looking at the adults involved behaviour first will have a much more positive result.
I think you have missed something rather substantial in your reading. The theory and the approaches to it all are entirely based in the principle that the behaviour of the adults involved be examined, and it the behaviour of the adults is addressed. The insistence that this approach blames the stepchild or is child-focused is a straw man; a complete misrepresentation. It has nothing to do with hate/resentment/jealousy, except in so far as these arise as symptoms of a problem.

OP posts:
RoyaltyMinded · 23/05/2016 21:09

Thank you so much for posting this.
I am a severely parentified adult in my early thirties.
I have been battling depression, low self-worth and suicidal ideation since my teens. Coming from an African-American family, I was not afforded the much needed therapy/counseling/intervention some other cultures and/or ethnicities may obtain. I was even pulled out of school to stay home and run the house, which was not monitored by the state. I ended up having to be a runaway when I was 17 so that I could live with my father in order to complete high school. I am still trying to catch up socially and have been able to self-teach. I thank God for my thirst for self-development and love of reading!
I literally did not know Parentification was a 'thing', so to speak. After a very recent bout of intense suicidal thoughts, a drive to a crisis center from a freind, and a social worker placing me in an intensive care program, I was told I am struggling with the troubling family dynamic called parentification.
I am hopeful to recovering, but have been warned that it may takes some years even of counseling before I get better (physical abuse was also a part of the parentification, causing PTSD symptoms).

I also do find the 'mini wife' term painful, ignorant and offensive.

Parentification is real.
Parentification is a crime. Parentification is child abuse.
Parentification is WRONG.

New posts on this thread. Refresh page
Swipe left for the next trending thread