Step-mum issues with my 13 year old, what on earth do I do?

[MaryRose]

My 13 year old is having real problems when visiting her dad and I don't know what to do!!! We have been divorced for 9 years and I generally get on ok with her Dad, but it just seems her step mum is causing all kinds of problems recently. It started a few months ago when my DD would tell me that her dad and step mum would take my younger DD (10) out shopping etc and leave her home for long periods on her own. To be fair older DD was always invited but she's at that age where she can be stubborn, however I felt they should sometimes ask her what she would like to do etc so she didn't feel left out. About this time she also started saying step mum always favoured my younger DD and was quite horrible to her. I arranged to meet her Dad for a coffee to talk it over, then the step mum told him he couldn't meet me and we would have to talk on the phone about it!!!!! Which we did. Things got better for a while but now they are getting worse again. DD texted me yesterday saying she wanted to come home as she was in trouble for keeping her phone in her room when she went to bed, and step mum had said she was causing trouble and they needed to have 'a long talk' when she got home from work. Fair enough DD had broken the rules but it seemed to be a bot over the top, I didn't see why they couldn't just say to her in the morning she shouldn't have done it and leave it at that rather than it building up to this big conversation about the fact that she had had her phone when she wasn't meant to. I called her dad and we had an amicable chat, he subsequently spoke to her about the phone whilst step mum was out, laid down the rules firmly but fairly and all seemed to be fine, we discussed the issues with her feeling left out and he came up with sensible ideas such as a rota of choosing what the girls do etc.

Then DD comes home from dad's in tears yesterday. It seems step mum was not satisfied with how dad had dealt with the phone issue and when she got home from work really ripped into DD over dinner, telling her she had had six years of her and was sick of her, that her and her dad are on the point of splitting up over her, that she was going to call me and tell me what she thinks of my daughter (I wish she had, I would have welcomed that call) and all kinds of other horrible stuff. Clearly she was cross that my X and I had spoken on the phone and sorted it out amicably. Feel so sorry for DD she is being put in the middle of what are obviously issues in their relationship. I know my D is 13 and by definition not always easy but this seems to border on emotional abuse to me, particularly saying that they will split up because of her, she only goes every other weekend for heaven's sake! The thing is, when there are difficulties, I can talk to her dad, who is generally really reasonable, he then talks to DD in a reasonable manner and all seems fine then step mum comes in and throws her weight around for no apparent reason!!! I know it is difficult being a step parent but I have a step daughter myself and would never dream of saying things like this to her. DD now says she doesn't want to go to her dad's anymore and I don't blame her, but I don't see why this woman should ruin my daughter's relationship with her dad. Help?????

But what your own post actually said is that I 'encouraged' her in her obnoxious attitude and then 'cried emotional abuse at every turn'. Seems pretty damn personal to me.
I am suggesting, MaryRose, that this may be the case, yes. That perhaps the SM is fed up with trying to deal with a "bloody teenager" when the mother of the said teenager won't let her and her DH get on with setting house rules, and uses such exaggerated rhetoric, which I do think is probably goading DD on to further rudeness.
Of course my response was "personal", after all we are talking about your own situation, I am hardly going to speak entirely in abstracts. If you feel it was a personal attack, then do please report it.

I have done.

Good. I hope that MN will read the entire thread.

Mary, you seem to have a hard time on this thread, some justified, some not. As someone with personal experience of an abusive partner who I eventually let back into my child's life and a step daughter who raises hell I empathise. I understand completely why you are overprotective of your DD and want to jump in and protect her, shielding her from more conflict. That said, don't let your fears surrounding your XP's past cloud your judgement, if you are able to get on with him now it is more than possible that he has changed.

I think you need to talk to your XP and DD face to face and agree between yourselves a course if action to ensure your DD can maintain contact with her Dad. I also think SM needs to step up and make a full and sincere apology.

Brdgrl some if the things you have said on this thread are bang out of order and I'm not surprised Mary is upset. Offering contradictory opinion is fine, but the way you have expressed yourself is not IMO.

MaryRose you can do as you wish, of course.

But you seem determined to cut SM out of this and I can tell you now; that way leads heartache for everyone, especially your children.

It's very, very easy to say and think that SM should completely step back. But this is her home. And she may not be the 'stepping back' kind, rightly or wrongly.

I really think, from what you've posted, that she is NOT the type. So what happens then? You plough on with parenting with your ex. He agrees with everything to your face. He goes home and all of a sudden it blows up because she's an adult and is having decisions about her household and the people in it, without her opinion even being asked.

She could very well put her foot down and decide, actually what you've decided is NOT ok. THen what?

Does he dump your dc for her? Does she ban them from the house? Do the dc decide they never want to see either of them again? None of these options will be healthy for the children.

I'm not saying what she did was right. But I am saying that you immediately deciding that your dd is being unfairly treated at every turn will only serve to wind you up to the point that you keep battling in to defend her and the situation will get worse.

You're being unfair to the SM in a lot of your points.

Walter, I know exactly what you are getting at re some of the points being unfair to SM, but to be fair to the OP she personally never mentions wanting to cut the SM out. It is others who have suggested that. Mary just seems to want the SM to front up for her actions and apologise for the upset so far as I can see. And Mary has arranged to meet her XP so she obviously does not want to cut him out either. I think some posters are being a bit selective in what they read and comment on.

Wow, there are some really unpleasant posts on this thread. I really don't understand why anyone would bother starting a thread in step parenting - it seems to attract aggressive posters

I don't see anything wrong with completely disagreeing with an OP but there is something particularly nasty in the way some people do it.

OP. I really wouldn't bother responding to some of the posts on this thread. I hope you get things sorted with your DD.

Agree ffs. Some posters accuse OP of bashing the SM and not considering her point of view whilst themselves completely ignoring the valid points her, the mother has made. Totally understand urging OP to see the other side but fail to see why the bias is so much in favour of SM on this to the extent that some posters seems totally unable to consider the DD might be telling the truth or have genuine worries. The highly aggressive tone of some posts towards the OP I also find quite disgraceful.

Mary, is it possible that your exh is being abusive again, to his current wife? Only this time in a v subtle way?
I got a bit of a shock when I read what sm had said to your dd. "there for the grace of god go I" sort of moment. I'd never say that in RL, but I've thought it... But as you rightly say, dd is the child, sm is the adult.
How do you really see your exh?
My dh claimed his exw was abusive. Apparently that is a red flag for a new relationship. For 5 yrs I feel he's been using his dc to "get at me". I've never blamed the dsc, except irrationally to myself, before I saw a pattern.
Our couple counseler has tried to get dh to place boundaries so that we can have an adult only relationship as well as parent child relationships. Dh has continually failed to do this to the detriment of our marriage. When he makes a concession re dsd, he immediately makes dss his BFF and "excludes" me.
Is there a chance that sm is being gaslighted by dh and doesn't realize it? That dd and she are being played?

Ps
I don't think you're purposefully drip feeding. You're just being fair to someone who was massively unfair to you.

Thanks Mojito, Anormal and FFS for your gentler, kinder posts! No I haven't been intentionally drip feeding - not my style, I did not include the history of abuse as I didn't think it was relevant to the original post. Bit hurtful that people say that makes my posts contradictory, I don't see why, I simply didn't mention it as I've given him another chance to have a relationship with his daughters and,for the most part now we get on ok for the sake of the children. That doesn't mean I am lying about the breakdown of our marriage!!!!!! Is it not just possible that people can change? Why the assumption that 'abusive men don't suddenly become reasonable'. For a start, it's not sudden, it has been nine long painful years of trying to work together for the sake of the kids since we split. And secondly, that suggests I am being untruthful, which is a horrible thing to suggest to any woman who has experienced domestic abuse.

I hadn't considered the possibility of whether he is being abusive again Anormal. I think it is unlikely, SM seems to be a strong character in her own right, but then at first (and for a very long time) with my XP the abuse was VERY subtle (comments about my weight, intelligence, parenting abilities) before escalating into more blatant physical violence at which point I scarpered. So yes it is possible, and it is possible SM has not really registered what is happening, as I didn't. Definitely something to keep an eye on.

I don't really care that people think I should not be talking to my XP about this and that I should step back and let SM deal with it. We have always tried to co-parent and if one of the kids is upset I will continue to keep a dialogue open with him whatever the cost. If that pisses the SM off so be it. My priority is my children's well being and happiness, not hers.

I've followed this thread and honestly still think the problem is that the SM and your exDH are going through some flux in their own relationship. Either the remorse over not having their own kids is getting to them or they're about to break up over other incompatibilities. Or honestly the SM thing isn't working out for her and she's about to leave. It sounds like they're having lots of rows.

I would treat it as that, rather than a norm. I hope it sorts itself out.

Fwiw I think you did get some harsh posts -- and I am the SM of a teen DSD so know how it can be!!

So what about emailing/saying to your ExDH/SM

'The girls have been reporting increased levels of tension in your household recently, which I do understand happens in all households, but of course it also makes me want check things are ok. If it would be helpful, and if you two/you and SM need some space at the moment, we can do more casual visits just for supper /or night at the cinema for the next month to give you some space. The girls usually really enjoy their visits and so their recent responses have stood out. It's in everyone's best interests to get this ironed out and back on track so that things are positive as possible all round.'

etc. Without mentioning particular incidents or blaming anyone. If my DsDs mum sent that I would be feeling very humble.

I.e. sort of shift the issue to their household. They will have to then have a talk about what's been going on and work out how to be less conflicty in front of the children. Or talk and calmly then contact you about amicably enforcing rules across both households and so on.

rosepetalsoup I think that's a really good way of putting things. I do want to bring up the fact that I don't want them in a household which seems to be experiencing increased conflict for whatever reason, but I don't want it to look like I'm nosying into their relationship, which is absolutely none of your business. So your statements sounds ideal.

I know that's with good intention rose but from reading previous post I don't think op should contact sm, sm made it clear she doesn't even want op to see dad! (Not that I agree with that) let alone emails from the op. Op I would keep communication regarding the kids open with dad, sound like you are doing that anyway and encourage dd to communicate with dad. Anything else leave to them . Good luck op

But can you not see how you're adding to tension in the household?
I'd be absolutely livid as a sm if every conversation and decision I made was then critiqued by you, wanted to rehash with my dh (your ex) and ultimately decide I'm wrong. A sm at the end of her tether with this could very easily see that the13 yo is in fact doing her best to cause trouble in the household and her parents are allowing it.

Teenagers also hear what they want. Last Friday dss (15) got a right rollicking of me and his dad. As I'm the calmer of the two I was the one left waiting for his phone (which we confiscated).
Conversation went as follows:
Dss - you're not having my phone
Me - yes, I am, you broke the rule spectacularly, hand it over,
Dss - no
Me - yes, else ill get the damn thing cut off for a week
Dss - (now shouting) I hate this house, you're all pricks, I hate dad,I hate you, I'm never coming here again
Me - (losing patience) good because you're a bloody pain when your like this,
Dss - (shouting more) oh my god, you said I'm not wanted here ever again.
Me - no you said you weren't coming, I just accepted it, phone now.

Dss handed over phone whilst ranting we don't want him etc. now if he'd rang his mum, the conversation would have been no doubt about how we said we didn't want him, but that isn't actually what happened (mind you I would have gladly packed him back off that night)

Yes MumsRush I don't think I would have that conversation with the SM, I was thinking of saying something along those lines to him directly, we have arranged to meet with DD present on Monday to talk matters over over coffee. See I am trying very hard to be reasonable and non accusatory!!!!!!

Yes sorry I just meant either him alone or including stepmum as was the OP's wont.

It's perf reasonable to ask what you can do to effectively help them dissipate the tension.

Believe me we are not fond of DH's ex at my house and she has minimal input, almost no contact -- but I would respect it if she were to send an email/tell DH something like I drafted above.

Ratbag I don't think it's fair of you to say 'every' conversation is critiqued by the OP, if you read back she says that she generally tells her DD to talk directly to her dad and thesis only the second time in X number of years she has actually said anything. I can't see how she is contributing to tension in the house, it seems very clear to me XP and SM have big relationship issues at the moment which actually are creating an atmosphere of disharmony for the children! It's not the OP's job to keep her mouth shut about a worrying issue to protect the XP'S relation, her concern quite rightly is her children!!!

*relationship

It does, in all honesty, sound like your dd is behaving badly at her father's house and, when pulled up over it, is running to you to stir things up.

I agree with whoever suggested that you sit down with your ex and his wife and discuss things calmly. No point just discussing things with your ex because your dd's behaviour affects his wife too and vice versa.

This thread is a perfect example of how even though there is a very anti-stepmum feel on MN, there are also posters who believe stepmothers can do no wrong.

Evens it out really.

As a stepmum with two very challenging dsc's I cam kind of understand how kids awful behaviour and perceived interference in household rules by Dm could cause an outburst like in this case. I am not saying she was right to say it but haven't you ever blurted out something inappropriate you were thinking in the heat of the moment?

I do think that you need to stop interfering though. Currently your dd knows that if she plays up events at dad's you will go wading in to defend her - once, twice, a hundred times doesn't really matter imo you have set a standard and she will (like anyone child or adult) iseuse that to her advantage. If this behaviour from the sm continues then maybe raise ot with your ex but as a oneoff iI would let it slide.

Your dd cannot refuse to join in family activities and then expect to be showered with treats and of she is continually refusing to do anything than what she chooses then I am afraid I wouldn't allow her the option to choose either until she could show that she is willing to make an effort when things are picked to suit other family members. And I have in fact administered exactly this with my dss who used to throw the biggest temper tantrums if we did anything he didn't pick or wasn't at the centre of. we had weeks of arguments, o hate you, hate dad, want to go home etc but when he realised that he wasn't going to win he calmed down amd things are a lot better.

I am not blaming your daughter but I do think you need to take some of what she is telling you with a pinch of salt. You are forceful over rules, dad thinks she is old enough to respect the rules without constant reminding - that is different styles not abuse. She knows the rules and is old enough to know better and she is deliberately flaunting tthem - you admit this in Your post where you say she does it cos dad is lax and doesn't keep on at her. If she is doing other things along similar lines then I can see where people like brdgrl are saying

For the record brdgrl is an excellent source of advice on step parenting and is not a troll. Please don't be so quick to dismiss her opinions because they differ from yours and what you want to hear on this thread. You came here for advice and opinions and then get upset when you are told that as stepmums some of us wouldn't appreciate your apparent undermining things in our houses. I often discipline my dsc's and then tell dp what has happened and he will speak to them and ofnnecessary tell them off again if he sees fit. This is not unusual

haven't you ever blurted out something inappropriate you were thinking in the heat of the moment?

Don't you normally apologise for what you said in those instances though?