DSC's mum / Problem

[mumtobealloveragain]

I'm honestly not sure if me/DP are being unreasonable here or if, as I feel right now, DSC's mother is being difficult for no reason.

My DSS (7) is very shy and quiet. He finds it hard to make new friends and doesn't really "like" much out of school.

We wanted to find him something to do out of school so he had a hobby. I found a local Beavers group and added him to the waiting list a year ago. He was offered a place in September. DO spoke to his ex before accepting the place, 50:50 residency means every other week he'd be with his mum so he needed to agree. She did. She agreed it'd be great for him socially and his confidence and said she'd take him as long as we paid for his uniform and the termly fees would alternate who pays them. All seemed good.

We bought his uniform and he started in September. He absolutely loves it. He asks every day if today is Beavers day, so proud of his uniform, runs all the way there, goes on and on about it all week - you get the idea. It's one hour a week.

In November, he was with his mum one week and we had a call from the Beavers leader to say he hadn't been collected. They had called his mum and she wasn't answering mobile or house phone. All the kids had gone and the leader was the last one there, she said she had to leave (Beavers had I used 40mins ago). So I walked there and collected him, very confused as to why he hadn't been picked up. I got back and called his mum. She answered and said she was on her way now and had been delayed. I explained he was with me and she drove to our house and was very rude at the door in front of the children.

She then decided he could no longer go during "her" time as she says she doesn't agree that I should have collected him. He's absolutely devastated. He's still going when with us but he's missing a lot and he's finding it hard to do the work towards his badges (which he's obsessed with doing). Twice now though she has agreed to is collecting him from school on Beavers day when he's due to be with her and us take him and take him to school the next day.

He has asked if he can come here like that every week so he can do Beavers. She refuses. He's really annoyed and angry and hasn't stopped going on about it. DP has tried explaining to her he will reliably have him on those days and how much it will benefit him but she has just said it's "her" time and her choice.

Argh. He's cried in bed tonight and asked me to make his mum let him go. He's one of those sweet kids who never asks for anything, never moans for sweets, never asks for things at the shop, never has a Xmas list etc. He's not particularly excited or bothered about anything but this.

I just think surely a little flexibility is needed, the DSC are getting older and they have needs and wants that aren't covered by the rigid Court Order of mum's night and dad's night. There's a provision in the order for "alternative agreed arrangements" so it's easily agreed.

What do other people do?

Aw, poor little lad.

On the face of it I want to say that she is being really unreasonable, but how far away is it is it for her to collect him? Did she agree and then realise that it caused too many practical and logistical issues?

I can see why she is uncomfortable about him staying over regularly on Beavers night, as she only has him 7 nights in 14 anyway, so she will be reluctant to drop down to 6.

It's a shame she can't just stick to her original commitment, as presumably she gets one week off in two with no childcare duties so I don't see why she isn't prepared to make more of an effort on the week when she has him.

Oh no it's not alternate weeks residency, DSC do a "rota" but it works out that every other week Beavers night is with her.

It's not far for her to go. A 5 min drive if that. She knew where it was when she agreed to it. It's all cause she's put out that I collected him that night, what else could I have done- I couldn't refuse to.

The Beavers leader is so lovely. We emailed his mum and offered to collect him from his mum's house and drop him back as she drives that way anyway if it was that stopping her letting him go. She didn't reply to the offer.

FFS if it's a five minute drive she's being very unreasonable. It sounds as though she thinks you are crowing/ebing smug or judgemental over having to pick him up that one time when she forgot/was late, and she is refusing to let him on her 'turn' to make a point about that and to minimise the risk of it happening again.

Although the easy way to make sure of that would be to just remember to collect him on time. [cofused]

sorry that was very garbled and full of typos.

I clearly need to go to bed.

This is ridiculous - and arguably cruel. I can't think of a single logical reason why he can't go when he's with her. How can his own mum see him so upset over something which is very cheap (compared to most other activities), which benefits him in all sorts of ways and which isn't an inconvenience to her ?

The only thing I think it can possibly be is some sort of "point" being made ...... for what reason I don't know. Maybe she's jealous that it was you who found something to bring him out of his shell - but good god, any normal parent would be pleased he'd found something like that, whoever arranged it.

With you offering to collect etc there's no earthly reason why she can have any objection to this. If she's adamant it's too much "trouble" then surely swapping days around so Beavers is never "her" day would be one solution - yet you say she's ignored all attempts to find a solution. Maybe she's angry at being "shown up" - despite the failure to collect being her fault .... I dunno. But if she's too embarrassed to show her face then again you've offered a solution to that.

Seems this is one of those examples where it's more important to the parent to retain "control" and/or to point score than to do what's right for the child. Such an attitude really is appalling.

Maybe it's time to make this all a bit more formal ..... like writing to her, suggesting alternatives, e.g. you collect and return on "her" time (if she can't be bloody bothered), or swapping days round so Beavers is always on dad's time. Give her 14 days or whatever to consider and reply ..... ask for an explanation why he can't go if she declines. That way your DP has a paper trail and a record of him bending over backwards to be reasonable and most importantly, placing the needs of his son first. Having done that, maybe re-visit the court order - in court - which I know seems a bit extreme, but this seems such a simple thing and it's not fair she's just refusing to engage in a conversation about it - and of course, being horribly unfair on the child.

How sad for your poor DSS. Is there any way you can change the rota round so that you always have him for that day of the week? Or does he have any friends that go that could offer to take and fetch him? (I know you've offered to do this yourself, but it's just possible she'd accept it more readily from someone else)

Thanks everyone.

His mum doesn't know it was me who organised it. We lied and said it was DP (from previous experience we never say anything was me).

There's a typo in my previous post. His Beavers leader emailed his mum after we told her he wouldn't be coming alternate weeks and she (the leader) offered to collect him and drop him off but his mum ignored the email. We have offered to have him too, he's offered to just have DSS and take him and return him after the hour, we've offered to have both DSC if it's easier logistically for her, offered to have them just til after tea or overnight - all ignored.

Yes, Catsmother I think she's embarrassed about not turning up to get him. She firstly said she forgot to collect him then made an excuse and said she was delayed but couldn't contact the leader as didn't have her number (she'd never asked them for it). Either way, she's been offered an easy get out by us taking him and she just won't reply. He's offered a "swap" of days and that's refused too.

It's hard to know what to do. DP is loathed to go back to Court about such a seemingly small thing but it's such a big thing for DSS. I do think a letter is a good idea. I'll talk to DP about it, we know the importance of appearing reasonable beyond reasonable and having a paper trail.

Such a shame as he's clearly loving it, lovely of the Beaver's leader to offer her help too. I really hope you get it sorted

Just a thought...

Is your DSS's mother a shy person too?

If so maybe she's too embarrassed to face the leader of DSS's club.

You stole her thunder and showed her up. In her eyes I reckon anyway. You obviously did the right thing by collecting him but it's narked her.

DSDs mum is like this

Your poor DSS. It may be a small thing to his DM but for him it's huge. I understand the court reluctance but if it did go that far could your DP request set days so that DSS can always be with you on beavers night?

Yeah. I think it started with her being embarrassed for not collecting him and has moved on to this "power" struggle if her being very adamant that as the "mother" her decisions are final and DP is a second class parent. Even if she was embarrassed she could easily let DP take him each week. She just wants to be able to say "no". The text she sent about it said that as "it's her time her decision" to no longer let him go should be respected and DP should not mention it again, but he is welcome to take him in his time with him.

She's definitely not shy It would be great if she was though.

It's such a small thing but such a big thing to DSS. He was complaining this morning as his first Beavers "camp" (one night sleepover at the HQ hut!) is in a few weeks time. We have had to tell him he can't go as it's his mums weekend with him and she won't respond to DP's text asking her to let him attend. DP doesn't want to have DSS annoyed with his mum or to appear to be putting blame on her and upsetting DSS about it but what else can we say? DSS is too old to be fobbed of with "we're busy that day" etc as we would when they were younger. He knows the dates and details himself and knows he's old enough to know he's not busy that day.

Just trying to give her the benefit of he doubt. I was once very shy in fact I had social anxiety. I used to get myself in state over silly things that don't bother me now.

Anyway as she's not shy, that leaves playing pulling rank and her word goes. Poor DSS.

Unfortunately what a parent doe on their time is their business.
However as this is such a big deal to DSS maybe consider taking legal advice on taking this back to court.

Thenightisdark. We have a very rigid contact pattern. It works out exactly 50:50 to the day over the space of a year. His ex has never asked or wanted a single day or hour more than "her" days. DP has said he's happy for her to ask (and have) the DSC on "his" time for things like family parties, weddings etc but she never asks. We sometimes have them extra days once DP has done the required amount of polite asking, asking again, explaining what it is they will be going to/doing, her setting time restraints to pick up and drop off that seem a little inconvenient for us and her (we suspect to have the "control" jut for the sake of it). I suppose her court apply to Court to slightly vary the rota so all Beavers days fall on days with us.

I suppose he could go

I admit I don't like her, mainly because she (in my opinion) tries to make all the decisions regarding DSC but isn't willing to put in any effort to facilitate their lives. I also dislike her because my DSC are pretty amazing and I don't think their mum is very good at being their mum as they deserve better- to give an example, their Court order is alternate Christmas'. Xmas 2013 was "her" Christmas text her and asked what she proposed and she had arranged to go out Xmas Eve and Boxing Day so asked to have them 11am Xmas Day til 11am Boxing Day. She didn't want her small children for Xmas Eve and Xmas morning. Now that's her choice, and DP and I were gobsmacked and very happy to have them as we were all ready to not have them, but I feel it's really sad for them, they are going to realise one day they never spend Xmas morning with their mum!

whilst I am inclined to agree mum is in the wrong here, I am struggling with this.

don't we have countless threads about activities being organised on the NRP's time and the right of the NRP not to agree to it? How is this different? Is an equal parent not able to change their mind and say actually, for whatever reason, this no longer suits me even if it suits the child? I am forever wrestling with this stuff with my ex - and frequently our children don't attend activities and parties I would prefer they attend because my ex believes that being with him is more important. Unfortunately, if parents can't agree, they can't agree. I don't believe a judge would necessarily order that the child has to be with dad on a Beavers night because it's a parent's priority to decide what is and what isn't good for their child - I'm not aware of any judgments that involve a parent having to take a child to an activity but it would be interesting to hear if anyone has managed to get such a judgement and the circumstances of it.

I think you just have to suck this up - maybe work with the child to give him the confidence to tackle mum in a sensible way but if she won't do it, you can't make her.

This is different because it was really helping a very shy child with no other interests.

Being shy is no joke, believe me.

which is fine...but if one parent doesn't think this is the right way to help a shy child with no interests then surely that is their choice as the parent? how can the OP make mum take the child to Beavers? How can I make my ex take our children to parties when he can't be bothered?

I am not trying to defend her - I can see no logical reason why she wouldn't allow it - but I do think there's a need to be careful that double standards aren't applied.

I'm with you on this mumandboys - yes, it's unfair on the DC, but there is no reason why Mum shouldn't change her mind.

Unfortunately, in separated families, it's often the SM who ends up mopping the tears when one or other parent makes a decision the DC is unhappy with.

In the spirit of co-parenting I think you should support/accept your DSC mums decision, and encourage your DSC to look at the positives (at least he gets to go to Beavers every other week).
If the Pack Leader thinks that your DSC would benefit from more regular attendance, then suggest to her that she discusses it with DSC mum directly.

mumandboys I agree totally with your point that we should be careful about applying double standards, and that one household should not dictate the workings of another. But it breaks my heart to think that a shy little boy is made to miss out on something he loves, and is so beneficial, for what appears to be no good reason.

I'd take him to Beavers myself if he lived near me!!!

It does appear no good reason...but it's the 'behind closed doors' thing, isn't it? For all the OP knows, he goes home to mum and cries that he hates it. Even if he loves it. Because he perceives mum not to like it or it has caused mum some kind of trouble so he's saying what he thinks she wants to hear. Or he may actually hate it. Equally, he could be aware dad and step mum have gone to the trouble of finding him a Beavers group but he's frankly not that bothered but they want him to be bothered so he is. Who knows?!

Is there a night every week that he is with you? Could he join a different Beavers Group on a different night?
Or could the Beavers Leader let you know what activities he will be missing or what badge work is being done when he isn't there so he can keep up at home?
Is there something else entirely that you can take him to in your time?
I know this is all ridiculous and you shouldn't have to dance to his ex wife's tune but just suggesting some other options...

Thanks.

Mumand3boys, I do see your point. There really isn't any reason for her to say no, she just doesn't mind upsetting her child if it upsets DP/me. I don't think she will change, it's just the way she is.

Kaluki. Unfortunately there isn't a day we have him every week when there is a local Beavers group. There aren't many round here and the one we got him into is very local, not really many feasible options.

Looks like we will have to deal with it alternate weeks. The leader has agreed to email us about his badges and, where possible, we will try and do the activity at home so e can take it in and not miss out.

We worked it out and it's 3 in 7 that he is with us for, so it's actually less than half, it's bloody annoying as she agreed to him going before he started. If she had said no we wouldn't have bothered, it just seems hard for him to be allowed to go and be excited and happy about it but not be able to make the most of it.

He's got his first Beavers "camp" (1 night sleepover in the Beaver's hut!) in a few months and they want permission slips and money by next week. He came back from Beavers this week really excited, asking for us to get him a new sleeping bag and telling us we can't come as it's no parents allowed etc. We've looked at the rota and it's a weekend he's with his mum. DP is going to talk to her about it later today- but I bet she says no. She wont even lie and pretend she has alternative plans) it's like she wants us to know she's doing it purposely to be a pain in the arse and upset DSS.

Well she should be made to own it then. When he asks why he can't go throw it back to his Mum and say "you need to ask Mummy - its her decision because that is when you are with her"
I know its heartbreaking, poor little thing, but he will grow up to see the way she is, and her motives and maybe he will start to question her and make her see how this affects him?

The lad could end up missing out completely here, because if there is a wwaiting list for the Beavers they may have "rules" about attendance, and someone who isn't going every week might lose their place.

Oh I can't fucking believe it!

DP tried to talk to DSS's mum about it this afternoon. She said she didn't want him going there as she feels it's "badly organised" (what, like forgetting to collect your child from a club!). Which is crap because the least has been a Scout leader for over 10 years. He said "let's just forget it shall we" and hung up.

She then text him. She said she would have been happy for him to take him to Beavers except she can't now. This is because she has put in a claim for Child Maintenance with the CSA and the amount she will get will go down if he stays any more nights with us!

Firstly we have the children exactly 50% of the time so why the fuck is she claiming Child Maintenance and secondly- What the actual fuck is she thinking- he can't do the one bloody thing he likes cause it might reduce the money she may get from DP. We haven't heard anything from the CSA yet though so don't know if she's telling the truth. What a shit thing to say!