would you be mad at this?

[mummatotwo]

DH and I agreed an amount of what we could afford in a change to his maintenance due to change of job and much lower income. He is dire with money BTW and for years I've bailed him out several times,but never learns I've even taken his bank card off him so he doesn't go over his overdraft

Not a great relationship with dss always texting and asking for money and he obliges. He never discusses it with me and everything is sneeky and behind my back. Our wages and money are our household income and we should discuss and agree these things I think.

We are going on on Hols soon we agree for me to pay hol and for him to provide the spending money, he's very OD at the bank again so now I've got to use my wages for spending money, which is going to leave us very tight for the next couple of months also I worked loads last month extra as we have lots if bills coming up to pay

I've just found out again by accident he's given hundred pounds out to the dss, I'm gobsmacked

You also seem quite bitter about blended families, which I don't understand if your own experience has been a good one.

My DH has never abandoned any of his children. And I feel confident that our daughter adds far more to her siblings' lives than she takes from them.

But I think where I am finding your posts hard to swallow is where you seem to suggest that this is the route 'responsible parents' should take, or that we don't all want 'the best for our children'.

I agree.

Aris - your posts are littered with the word should - parents should do X, discussion should take place, first families should be a priority.

I can assure you that my DSC Mum doesn't want her DC's to be a priority in DP's life - she things he should disappear from their lives and never have anything to do with her or them - how does that fit with your model of what parents should do?

China - good point. DH's ex was never unduly concerned with DSS's best interests; she just insisted that DH removed DSS from her house as often as possible, and kept paying as much as possible. Didn't give us much to work with!!!

I can't help but remember some of your other posts Aris where you've said you feel your children have missed out on having you as a SAHM and that the reason you had to work was because you felt your DP's exes income should never drop due to your children. That IS putting someone else before your children, if you believe they missed our as a result, which you have said before that you believe they have

When trawling my posts you will have noticed that my regret about being a SAHM revolves around two things. One I am actually fundamentally very lazy and would rather not work at all. Having 12 weeks off a year was my main motivator for being a teacher. Secondly my eldest son has rather complex special needs, something that did not come to light for many years. When discussing children and work arrangements if I had known then what I know now I would have stayed at home with him, probably all of his childhood. Rather stupidly I spent years blaming myself for my son's problems, thinking that if I worked less during pregnancy, if I had been at home, if other things had been different and so yes I do look back at that time with ambivalent emotions. If you want to use a quite difficult time in my life to score points in a debate, feel free, personally I think that is something of a low shot.

I think you are a very lucky parent if you can look back and think I would not change a thing, most parents cannot do exactly as they wish and have to make compromises. I look back and wish I had worked less, I was fortunate to be able to take a paycut and become a teacher so I had more time with my family and could work a little less. Right now life feels pretty good, we have managed to navigate my eldest son through much of secondary school, which has been something of a bumpy ride and he looks set to get himself a decent crop of qualifications so he can go to a university where he may feel a little less odd. Hopefully our family is about to expand again and I feel very blessed to have so much.

DSS mother was over for dinner last night, hence me not replying and we discussed this as a family. None of us feel that one person has dictated to the other but just that we have discussed things before leaping ahead, just as other families do. It is not that DSS is a priority over the other children , but that he was the first child and therefore his needs have to be met before you consider having another, once a child has arrived they of course are all treated equally - although I maintain that equal does not necessarily mean the same. Within a nuclear family you would do that, I don't see why my stepson should be worth any less because his parents could no longer stay together. I do think that responsible parents discuss things before making big life decisions, like having another child. Whenever DH and I have had a child , I have not just stopped taking the pill without discussing things with DH. We have discussed childcare arrangements, work patterns, finances and even bedrooms! When you are part of a step family there are more than two parents to discuss this with, I can't see why that is so shocking or offensive.

I am not bitter about blended families, I love my family and consider my DSS's mother one of my closest friends. I do have experience within my own family and friendship circle of men leaving their first family and having other children , sometimes with multiple partners - with no consideration of how this affects the children that already exist. I do have experience of the same fathers paying no or very little maintenance. I find that shocking and do not understand why someone would not find raising your own child something to take joy in rather than something to avoid. I also find the way that some posters talk about the mothers of their stepchildren shocking, This is a woman that your husband valued and loved enough to perhaps marry and certainly create a child with. I just think it makes life harder to seek confrontation. If nothing else both you and the ex wife have fallen in love with the same man and therefore there is something you have in common.

Whenever DH and I have had a child , I have not just stopped taking the pill without discussing things with DH.
Fair enough...but you have suggested that a prospective mother also discuss it with her DH's ex. Can you not see the difference?

I do have experience of the same fathers paying no or very little maintenance. I find that shocking and do not understand why someone would not find raising your own child something to take joy in rather than something to avoid.
This is not an issue on this thread. Or indeed on most of the posts on this board. Objectively speaking (I have no personal investment in maintenance or residency issues), I see far more posts and threads here which are about fathers wanting more, not less, involvement in their children's lives. But again, not even the point, as this is not a discussion of maintenance.

When you are part of a step family there are more than two parents to discuss this with, I can't see why that is so shocking or offensive.
Well, it is shocking and offensive because most people recognize that a divorce dissolves a marriage and by its very nature, negates ceratin responsibilities and agreements, replacing these with those defined in the divorce decree. Moreover, most people recognize an extant marriage as a private bond between two adults.

By the way, your statement is not always true. There are not always more than two parents to discuss things with. My DH's ex is dead. Does that mean we are entitled to breed again? The impact on my stepchildren is even greater in my case, as it is not mitigated by the income or intervention of an ex...so surely I should be prohibited from reproducing, since it has a negative impact on the DSCs, and since clearly their father is incapable of making a sole judgement about their best interests in this regard?

And what about the parent who is alive, but disinterested in discussions, like allnew's DH's ex, above?

But this is the crux of things -
DSS mother was over for dinner last night, hence me not replying and we discussed this as a family.
My DH's previous partners are not members of my family, and I do not discuss our family choices with them. I passionately believe that families are made and come in many different forms and shapes. Yours includes your DH's first wife, and if that suits you all, I won't say a word against it. It is, however, uncommon and I think you would be more fair to others if you accepted that your choice is unlikely to either suit or function for many others. It is the prescriptive quality of your posts to which I object.

I promise you, you have not cracked the secret formula to a happy life.

I suppose it depends on how you see the mother of your stepchild, I don't really see her as my husband's ex but as the mother of my stepson. Therefore if we make a decision that affects our stepson it seems natural to discuss that with her, not to ask her permission, but to discuss how we can make it work.

It is Aibu, we are being asked our opinion, I have given it. Much if it has been quite personal to me, that is the nature of a parenting discussion board . I do not apologise for being prescriptive in saying that I think parents should consider the needs of their first child before having a second. I have only quickly scanned my posts but that seems to be where I said " should "

I don't think a divorce negates your responsibilities to your children . Obviously if a parent is dead you can't discuss things with them, that goes without saying. I feel a little daft even having to say that. But in the OP situation the parents were alive .

If a parent is disinterested in their children, obviously they way we choose to do things is not going to work. Although it can take some time to get to a point where people are happy to discuss with each other and set aside differences. A divorce often happens precisely because a couple cannot set aside their differences and therefore the ability to work together as a family can be a huge ask, especially in the early days.

Where have I said that I have cracked a universal formula for happy family life? Mumsnet is about sharing experiences, if we can't do that for fear that we are being prescriptive the site would be very quiet. In fact rather than say everything is rosy I have said that I wish I had done some things differently and even that I have has times when I blamed my decisions for my son's problems. That is hardly me saying that I have got everything right.

I am not sure why I am getting the passive aggressive face from you.

I also find the way that some posters talk about the mothers of their stepchildren shocking, This is a woman that your husband valued and loved enough to perhaps marry and certainly create a child with

Do you find it equally shocking to read the vitriol directed at Stepmums by the mother of their DSC? About the verbal and physical attacks that Stepmums are subjected to?

Surely, if Stepmums should respect their DSC mum because she was previously chosen by her DH, then the same is true in reverse; mum should respect stepmum because the man she chose to have DCs with loves, trusts and respects her?

I'm delighted that you have such an amicable relationship with your DSC mum, which I am sure is in no small part due to your willingness to come second to your DSC and allow your DCs to come second as well. Unfortunately, not all hostile blended family situations can be solved just by stepmum deferring to mums superior position.

I'm friend with, and friendly with, my OH's ex wife. Not a snowballs chance in hell she's being involved in any discussions about whether or no my OH and I will ever procreate though! She's treated with all due respect and consulted about any concerns or things involving their child. She's the mother, after all. However, any decisions my OH and I make to expand our new family unit are bugger all to do with her! We won't be consulting my dsd either. She's a child. Our job is to provide her with a loving and stable and secure upbringing. If we choose to have another child, that job won't change.

I find it hard to swallow that you share so much private stuff with your husbands ex. My relationship and what goes on within it is no one else's business but ours.

That's not a passive-aggressive face, it is a skeptical face. Says so, right next to it. I used it because I am skeptical.

It is Aibu, we are being asked our opinion, I have given it.
This is not AIBU, actually. As I said above, there is no issue with you giving an opinion, or with sharing what has worked for you. The judgement and thinly veiled attack on 'second families' is what has been objected to.

I do not apologise for being prescriptive in saying that I think parents should consider the needs of their first child before having a second.
You should, though. Apologize, that is. I understand that you won't, because you cannot see what is offensive in your posts.

For a father to consider the needs of his older children absolutely does not require a discussion with an ex.

You imply - rather more than an implication, in fact, that it does, and that those of us who make a responsible decision - to have children within a committed relationship, for which we can provide - do not have all our children's best interests at heart.

Obviously if a parent is dead you can't discuss things with them, that goes without saying. I feel a little daft even having to say that. But in the OP situation the parents were alive .
And yet, the logic is exactly the same. The ex has nothing to do with this, right - it is all about the best interest of the children, isn't that your position? So what difference does it make, to your spurious position, if she is alive or dead? If it is not in my DSCs best interest to have a sibling that takes away from the available income, that's all that matters - right?

What if my DH's first wife asked him, as she did, not to marry and have more children? Her wishes at the time were pretty clear...so what? She doesn't have a say, and she wouldn't have a say if she lived around the corner and had tea here every day. My DH has proven himself able to make decisions for his family and in the best interests of his children. It is too bad that you would require the death of the first spouse to make that acceptable.

(And if we are strictly speaking about the OP's situation, maintenance was never an issue in her post, don't forget.)

I do find it sad when vitriol is directed at stepmothers, I am one myself just trying to do my best. I totally agree it should work both ways.

My children do not come second, I do not come second and my stepson's mother does not have a superior position in the family. As DH has four children with me, soon to be 5, if anything the weight tends to swing in our favour just because of numbers.

We don't share loads of private stuff, I hardly think a discussion that goes along the lines of " we would like to start a family and ideally we would like aria to be at home but we can't afford it at the moment, any ideas? " is a highly confidential conversation. We have never asked my ex for permission to have children but rather had conversations about how we can make it work. This was because it involved the two if us being financially reliant on DH, it may be different if the finances are more equal.

I think an important factor for us is that DH and our stepson's mother split when stepson was a baby and DH and I started seeing each other not long after. So our family has almost always been this way , certainly as long as our stepson can remember. So there has not really been a need for a new drawing up of roles or responsibilities.

I hardly think a discussion that goes along the lines of " we would like to start a family and ideally we would like aria to be at home but we can't afford it at the moment, any ideas? " is a highly confidential conversation.

Really? Do you understand that most people do? Most people would consider this an exceedingly private matter.

Where have I attacked second families, I am a second family.

Where have I said that it is irresponsible to have a child that you can afford within a commited relationship ? If that is the case I am highly irresponsible as I am about to have my fifth. I have not said that you should not have further children as they always take away from the stepchild , again I am about to have my fifth child . I simply said that the needs of the existing children need to be considered and in my view the existing children should not have their standard of living significantly reduced unless that is something that has been discussed.

Where have I said that the first wife's commands become law? I have said a discussion not a dictation.

I am sorry it is not Aibu, I was getting confused because it is only normally on AIBU that the passive aggressive faces appear, people fridge through your old posts for ammunition and people start trying to twist your words and overstate the case.

I don't do confrontation and I have clearly made you very angry and I am sorry for that. This site is supposed to be about supporting parents rather than attacking them and right now I feel a little attacked.

I was warned that MN could be like this, ironically by DDS mother! I will leave the thread so that it can return to the OP rather than trying to pick my posts apart.I hope the Op and her husband can sort things out.

At the time DSS mother was totally reliant on my DH for money, other than child benefit. I don't know the exact details but I would be surprised if she received any benefits on top of the maintenance she was getting. We could not afford to continue doing that if I was going to be at home with a child. Surely in those circumstances it was right to include her in any discussions which could have had a huge financial impact on her and our stepson.

This site is supposed to be about supporting parents rather than attacking them and right now I feel a little attacked.

Do you think that your posts were supportive and helpful to the OP? Your second post was to suggest that her DH's first son was a "more important commitment" and not-so-subtly tell her that she knew what she was getting into and should make sacrifices (presumably so should her children.)

I am sorry you feel attacked. As I say, I am pleased if you have found something that works within your family. I think the responses you have received reflect the fact that you came across in a very prescriptive and judgmental manner.

Being a stepmother you make sacrifices and the commitment to the existing child is more important than the commitment to you. I did not say the children from the first marriage are more important , why would I say that when I have four , plus one, children who are all from a second marriage.

I have for checked through my posts and have not said anywhere that children from a second marriage are less important .

I don't think I have been any more prescriptive than anyone else, it is that you don't agree with me - which is fine - I thought the OP wanted to hear different views.

I haven't said that my way is the best way, infact I have said that I have regretted things. If parenting awards were being given out I am sure I would be towards the back of the queue. I said we wanted to do the best and then said isn't that what we are all doing?

I have obviously phrased things wrong, and I am sorry for that. I did not mean to come across as judgemental or prescriptive and in real life that is just not me, I guess words in a screen come across differently from the way we mean them.

don't post on the step parenting boards very often as I find it quite intimidating and I guess that was a wise decision to stay away.

As I said, I don't do confrontation so I will step away. We only found out last night that we are expecting our fifth child, I should be celebrating today rather than having to feel like this and being told that I have made my children second class citizens.

This was because it involved the two if us being financially reliant on DH,

...and this is why you have been posting at cross-purposes. There are very few arrangements now-a-days in which an exH remains financially responsible for his exW. It is acknowledged that both parents have a joint financial responsibility towards the shared DCs, and the practical responsibility for this is usually taken by the RP who receives a financial contribution from the NRP and who chooses the standard of living the DCs have.

it is incredibly rare for a man to have the arrangement your DP has, and even more rare for him to financially support two families, mainly because there are very few women who would accept the level of sacrifice it would require on their part and that of their DCs.

At the time DSS mother was totally reliant on my DH for money, other than child benefit

There are very few women who would commit to having one child with a man who was so beholden to his exW, let alone 5!!!!

I don't agree with what you said about when you're a stepmother, the commitment to the existing children is greater than the commitment to you.

They are completely different relationships that require completely different things.

My OH is a father. A good one at that. So he sees his child as often as he can , makes sure he provides for her fairly and generously, speaks to her every day, tells and shows her he loves her, does his utmost to ensure she's happy and healthy. That's his commitment to her, and it'll always be that way.

His commitment to me is just as strong and just as important. He works hard to take care of me and us, to give us a good lifestyle, makes me feel loved and secure, plans a hopefully long and happy future with me by his side. That's his commitment to me.

Two very different relationships, father and partner. Both require serious work. And both are equally important to him. I never feel second best to my dsd. She's his child and always will be. But my OH respects his commitment to me just as much. There's no comparison IMO between the two commitments as they're totally different and my OH can see this and acts accordingly.

I know you say you don't feel second best Aris but your posts do all seem like you're treated second best. My IH had a previous marriage but it ended. His ex is always going to be the mother of his child and he will always work hard to parent well with her. But he's not her partner any more and he has no desire to be, he's with me, and our relationship is private. His ex just has to deal with whatever we decide to do. As long as he pays maintenance, and invests as much time and live into his child, there's no reason for his ex to have any bearing in our relationship and decisions quite frankly.

He no longer fully supports her, this was whilst our stepson was a preschooler and she was at home. As my stepson settled into school she started to work more and more and we were able to financially step back as a consequence and could have more children,

I am not presently totally reliant on my DH for money , although he earns in a bad year almost three times my wage so there is disparity, However if I were to give up work to be SAHM then I would be reliant on him. As has just been said, DH would struggle to fully support two families which is why my desire to have children had to be balanced against DSS needs.

We do spend a lot of time together, and yes that is probably unusual. We have Christmas together and celebrate birthdays together, every now and again we go on holiday together.

I don't feel second best to anyone, not my stepson or his mother. But I do think the greatest commitment you have in life is to your children . But yes it is a different kind if commitment. But in those early days the commitment to the existing child is greater than the commitment to the new tpartner.

Of course my DH does not want to be with my stepson's mother any more, however he does still love her in a platonic sense. They were great friends who should have remained that way. They mistook that friendship for something more and started a relationship which they both laugh at now. I quite like the fact that he has stayed in such good terms with the mother of his child and that they have forged a positive relationship together. It has not been plain sailing by any means, I found it very hard when we first got together, we had huge rows for example about our wedding. There were accusations thrown about that DH and I had been having an affair and that I was to blame for their marriage breakdown. But I am pleased that we have chosen that route. All of us have come from quite dysfunctional and cold families, we seem to have created this new highly dysfunctional but loving family for ourselves and it seems to work for us. It may be that we have created the family we wanted for ourselves .

He no longer fully supports her ? this was whilst our stepson was a pre-schooler and she was at home. As my stepson settled into school she started to work more and more and we were able to financially step back as a consequence and could have more children

But all of the above was based on HER decisions; she decided she didn?t want to work until the child was at school (and plenty of women in ?together? families don?t have that luxury). What if she?d decided she didn?t want to work til he went to secondary school, for example, or what if she?d made a decision to have another child ? and therefore wouldn?t be going back to work for literally years?

It could then have been almost a decade, if not more, before your DH (and by extension, you) could ?financially step back and have more children.? I?m not surprised you?re good friends with her. Seems like she saw you coming a mile away.

But she didn't and wouldn't have made that decision petal.

I agree by the way that plenty of women do not have that decision, I didn't always but she she did have the luxury of that decision.

We were part of the same circle of friends going back to university , so if she saw me coming she had a cracking sense of foresight.

And if she had made that decision, which she wouldn't , but if she had we would have just bought a smaller house, I would have stayed in my previous career rather than taking a paycut and going into teaching. We may have had the children later. As I keep saying we never asked her for permission to have children but we discussed how we would make it work.