At what age is it appropriate to have this conversation?

[DeliaRose]

Brief background:

I have a 6 year old and split with his Dad when he was just a few months. Contact since had been sporadic (sometimes going months without contact), but the last year or so has been going well.

I met my now husband when DC was 18mo. We now have two more DC aged 3yo and 1yo.

At first my DC called my then partner by a nickname (he just decided not to call him by his name!) but then soon changed to his first name. When our first DC came along this changed (completely his decision) to Daddy "first name". He's since dropped the "first name".

So now he has two 'Daddys' by his own choice.

My ex thinks that we need to make it clear that he is his only Dad, and that my husband is step dad. He has been having conversations with him to this effect and DC is now asking that he not go for overnight contact, I think these conversations make him uncomfortable.

I don't know what to do. Is there any harm in him having 'two daddys'? Certainly when he asks questions he is answered honestly, but it is my belief that this should be very much child led... what do you think?

"I think your dc is old enough to understand that his bio dad made him n his stepdad loves him & looks after him like he is his dc. Its not difficult"
But maybe his real dad loves him! Saying that to him makes his real dad sound like just a sperm donor!!! You can't erase a parent from a childs life to suit you!
I have been slated for saying this before but I don't agree with dc calling step parents "Mum" or "Dad". It is confusing for them and can devastate the natural parents. I would be crushed if my dc called anyone else Mum.
Obviously unless the bio parent is dead or absent, then that is different but if a father is involved in a childs life it should be made clear that he is their only Dad.

I don't agree with dc calling step parents "Mum" or "Dad". It is confusing for them and can devastate the natural parents.

I agree -and it is totally unnecessary for the welfare of the DC's - it is to fulfil a need in the adults.

If a young DC chose to call a grandmother, aunt or regular female carer mum, then they would be gently corrected by all the adults involved. It often happens with live-in nannies/au-pairs who have been a part of the DC's life since they were tiny - a nanny fulfils the role of a parent, just as a step-parent often does - but they are not referred to as such, are they?

Adults fulfilling their own needs in this way leads to problems for the DC later - as the OP's DS is now experiencing

I think it depends very much on the individual families. DD1 calls DH Daddy because she wanted to, DD2 feels more comfortable with his first name. DSD asked if she should call me Mummy, I said she should call me whatever she was happy with.

Surely as long as the DC are happy with what they choose to call everyone then that's all that matters and the adults should respect their choices. It would appear in this case the DC has made a choice and is now being told that is wrong, making him upset and uncomfortable.

Surely as long as the DC are happy with what they choose to call everyone then that's all that matters and the adults should respect their choices

Only if those DC's live in a bubble and are never going to be expected to operate in wider society - AND, that all the adults in both families are equally committed to the child-led approach in relation to this specific issue.

Otherwise, it has repercussions as the DC grows up - when the DC's are teased by peers, challenged by adults outside the family circle, or receive conflicting messages from each of their families.

You think an adult should respect a child choice in this matter - but what about other issues? Some parents allow DC's to pick bedtimes, their meals, whether or not to go to school - other parents consider this is an inappropriate choice to give a child. Unless both parents and step-parents agree in advance that this particular issue should be child-led, then it's never going to work, is it?

Ok we clearly are wrong, I will inform DD1 that she must now call DH by his first name as she might get teased or challenged. Alternatively, maybe by supporting her in her choice (me, DH and her Dad) we are giving her confidence to make her own choices in life meaning that she is able to stand up to teasing and challenges to her choice?

The examples you've put forward are practical rather than emotional choices, they would also affect others, what DD1 chooses to call DH doesn't.

The examples you've put forward are practical rather than emotional choices, they would also affect others, what DD1 chooses to call DH doesn't.

Apart from her Dad, her step/siblings, you and your DH, of course

..and, in your case, her parents AGREE - so presumably you have spoken about it, whereas, the OP has indicated that she and her ex do not agree.

My eldest child, now 14, was just over 2 when I left his father. When I became involved with my now STBXH, DC took it upon himself to call him 'daddy'. My DC has never had contact with his biological father (his father's choice not mine!), but we did explain to him that STBXH was not his biological father - and explained what that meant, and he was fine with it. He was about 5 when this happened, as DC2 was born by then.

So it's fine for a child to call their stepfather "Daddy" if "real Daddy" is absent. So what then happens if "real Daddy" comes back on the scene?

DS calls DP by his name, but is very clear in his mind that DP is his Daddy. We have never told him this, he worked it out for himself based on other children having Daddies, seeing DP in this role and putting the two together.

We explained to him that he has another Daddy and I showed him pictures of him when he was a baby with XP, and he printed some out for his bedroom wall. XP hasn't seen him now in over a year, but if he was to come back into DS's life, I'd have to have a conversation with him along these lines. Thing is, DS is not quite four yet and doesn't even remember his real dad. I could try to explain to him about blood and step but I don't think he'd understand it yet.

I think it's fine to go by a child's lead, and actually wrong to tell them "No you must not call X Y, you must call them Z."

And Delia I understand your ex might be upset about this but it's really wrong the way he's treating your son. Whatever anyone thinks about what you and your partner should/shouldn't have done in this situation it's not your DS's fault :(

NADM, you're right, we are very fortunate that DDs father is very good in that regardless of how he feels about it, he puts the DDs and their feelings first :)

Having said that, if DSD decided she'd like to call me Mummy I'm sure it would be an entirely different matter.

I still feel that if OPs DS has made that choice then his bio Dad should suck it up. It might hurt emotionally for him but it isn't stopping him being his father/Daddy.

In my case Bertie, if real 'daddy' came back on the scene, my DC would be inclined to address him by his first name - he has been out of his life for so long that, even though he is his biological father, he has no claim to be called 'daddy' - as he hasn't been one of those at all (again - his choice - not ours)!

So it's fine for a child to call their stepfather "Daddy" if "real Daddy" is absent. So what then happens if "real Daddy" comes back on the scene?

imo bio daddy would have to bloody well suck it up and accept that whilst he was away being a feckless wonder, some other selfless responsible person had came along and did his job, and quite rightly, had taken his title.

Titty - I agree up to a point but when there is a loving father being shoved out in favour of the step dad that is IMO very wrong.
My dc get corrected if they call DP dad. Not only because it isn't fair on their real dad but also because its not fair on DPs children if my dc call him dad too!
My own dad was a bloody useless father but he was still my dad. My step dad does a lot more for me and is more fatherly but I could never call him dad - and I love him to bits!

I think it is a real shame that the situation was allowed to develop.

In your shoes, I think I would work with the stepfather and child to find a title they can make their own.

I don't think "child-led" is always the wonderful thing people see to think it is! Children should not have to lead the way on some things.

It isn't necessary to call a man "daddy" to show love. There are all sorts of other words or titles that don't conflict with either the reality of the situation or create emotional conflicts for the child or other members of the family.

If your partner adopts your son, then you have a different situation. An adoptive parent is a parent. A stepfather is that - and it can be a wonderful thing to be. I suspect, as another poster said, that your son "chose" to call his stepfather the same name as the other childen in order to feel secure and "the same" - but you can teach him that it he can have that security without pretending to be a family you aren't - you are the family you are.

I agree with tittytittyhanghang.

This lads bio Dad was barely having any contact, the OP's DH was doing the Daddy role and along came other babies calling him Daddy, I would have let him do the same too if he wanted to. Bio Dad forfeited sole rights on 'Daddy' when he fucked off to do his own thing (& still is largely)... so tough shit, he needs to suck it up and stop bullying his son . He should appreciate what he does have (a son that was still wanting to see him) instead of alienting the poor kid. Fuckwit needs telling.

Kaluki, there is no loving father being 'shoved' out. There is an absent father half heartedly trying to make amends.

Maybe some adults shouldn't be so insecure to think that what a child calls another person in any way affects their love towards that them (unless you have been a useless absent parent in which case be glad that you can salvage any relationship with your child).

Ah so you have to be a 'good' dad to deserve the name do you?

So if you make mistakes (which we all do!) you get demoted?
Does that apply to us Mum's too?
If it did I would have been fired a long time ago

The way I see it is this:

My husband and my son have a father - son relationship. He has helped me to raise him since he was 18months old. He treats him and his 'real' DC absolutely equally and loves them all absolutely equally. They have a strong bond. My DC made a natural progression from calling him his real name to calling him 'Daddy'. At this time his 'real' Dad was having very minimal contact so my husband was the only father figure in his life.

Since then Dc's biological father has been having more regular contact. It's my feeling that he feels insecure in his role and is trying to undermine the relationship between son and stepdad. This is causing problems. I feel that instead, he should be concentrating on his relationship. Re enforcing his bond, not undermining another's. At the moment he sees him once a week, an overnight stay and a full day. DC is not involved in his bio Dad's life past having a great day out and stopping the night. He moves house, with no warning to DC, he just turns up to a different house, with his room ready done. He goes on holiday without him, he chooses not to spend Christmas with him. He doesn't do a lot of the thing's 'families' do. He doesn't ever tell him off (he's told me this). They don't eat together. Until very recently, when DC got up in the morning he was instructed to get some breakfast and stay in his room (on a different floor) until his Dad got up, this changed when I told him Dc was upset by this. This is the other thing, DC feels he can't approach him with problem such as that. It doesn't help that his Dad leaves me to deal with any delicate situations (for example, when him and his current partner split up, he asked me to break the news).

It is my opinion that the two relationships can stand side by side. They are not the same they are two separate relationships that share the same title (much like Grandmas and Granddads). I have felt that any questions (and they will be questions) should be answered and dealt with as DC brings them up. It is his Bio dad's opinion that he needs to be told now, he even suggested getting some 'professionals' to do this.

My question is; Should this be child led, or not?

Maybe some adults shouldn't be so insecure to think that what a child calls another person in any way affects their love towards that them

That goes both ways. A secure stepparent should not think that being called "daddy" by a toddler equates to some measure of love, either.

It isn't even primarily about the father's feelings! The child deserves to have some clarity and to have his place ^as the son of his father be respected.

Kaluki is being ridiculous of course. ;) A stepmother who encouraged her stepkids to call her mummy, over the express wishes of the mother, would be roundly beaten with sticks.

There is no way, from this thread, to conclude that the father is an unfit parent. If he is so unfit, perhaps his parental rights should be terminated and the child can be adopted by the stepfather.

Or, for the rest of the child?s life, maybe the father should just fall in line with the ?child led? behaviours, take no active role, and just be ?grateful? he is still permitted to see his child ? gratitude he can express by letting the child and the other parents set all the parameters of the relationship and behaviour. Oh, and by treating the child like a guest in his home, buying him things, and having no expectations of being seen as a father. Because we can see how well that works out for kids.

he does treat him like a guest in his home this is one thing I've suggested he change

"A secure stepparent should not think that being called "daddy" by a toddler equates to some measure of love, either"

He didn't, and doesn't, think it does. In fact he was quite adamant that he shouldn't be called Dad, but it just became a natural progression.

My Ds thinks of my husband as Dad. He thinks of his bio Dad as Dad. Is this wrong? Should I be telling a 6 year old his feelings are wrong?

deliarose, my last post was directed at others who have posted on the thread, and was crossposted with your own post. Sorry about that!

From your post, it sounds like your ex is trying to work things out and is actually very conscious of his son?s feelings ? he has changed the way he did things when you explained that it distressed your son, and he has made it clear that he is open to the idea of getting professional advice?he may not be doing things perfectly or finding it easy, but I really do think (at least based on this) that he seems to be trying and willing to change for the best interests of his kid.

Why not take him up on the suggestion of consulting a professional? What if the two of you talked to a counsellor ? without yet involving your son in the session ? about this very question? You might get a ?professional? perspective on what is actually best for the boy, as well as having an environment to talk about your views on it, with an objective person there to keep things from getting too heated or uncomfortably off track?

I suppose I think that a balance could be found between ?child led? and ?adult led?. You surely don?t need to tell your son that his feelings are wrong ? quite the opposite ? maybe you could use it as an opportunity to explore those feelings more and also to let him know how special that relationship with his stepdad is. Obviously now that your son is already in the habit of using the name ?daddy?, it is a different and harder thing to deal with, and that?s why I think maybe getting some outside help isn?t a bad idea.

If the names do change, a counsellour might have ideas about how to bring that about in a positive way ? or if your son continues to call them both daddy, the cousellour be able to make that less troublesome to your ex.

brdgrl - no worries but you do seem to have misunderstood the 'professionals' situation. He has suggested that we pay a professional to explain to DC that step dad is not dad. I've suggested counselling for us all but he has declined.

He has suggested that we pay a professional to explain to DC that step dad is not dad. I've suggested counselling for us all but he has declined.

Well, it's a good start that he's prepared to involve professionals in your DS life relating to this - has he suggested someone specific? Are you happy with their credentials? Can you suggest an alternative, if not? I am sure that whoever they are, they will need to gather information from both parents in order to support your DS appropriately - which will give you the chance to put your pov across, and then they can make a judgement as to what is best for your DS, taking into account the differences in opinion between his parents.

For instance, if you carry on as you are, and your ex continues to tell your DS not to call his DSDad "Dad" then it may be less traumatic for your DS for you and your DH to accept your ex's position rather continue to encourage your DS to call your DH "Dad".

No matter how "right" you believe you are, you can only parent within the limitations of the other parents choices - you can't change how your ex parents, but you can adapt your own approach to make things better for your DS if necessary.

This is why I love kids logic its so very black and white isn't it, it's the adults that overthink things

Seems to me that Bio dad feels threatened by the love his son feels for a man that spends more time and experiences with than he does and is jealous so is trying to establish himself (not very well though) with his son

Your stuck in the middle trying to justify and soothe a 6 yrs using kiddie logic and the step dad is feeling (probably) that if he hadn't let the name thing slide over the yrs (as you do) you and your son wouldn't be so upset

Your son wants you call his step dad what his siblings do so he isn't left out and HE loves him

Does your ex have a partner? Can you relate at all say if your son started calling her mum?

It does seem to me that your ex is thinking more of himself than his son and probably could try and word it better than being scary and shouty to the point a 6 yr old is not wanting to go back and is having nightmares (massive hugs to your son as he is the hurting the most)

My DSD is 11 now and has not seen her mum since January now she doesn't call me mum but my first name apart from outside when she doesnt want to be singled out by her peers I dont try and work it out I just leave her to do what she feels comfortable doing as being different at that age is hard especially when you can't explain why her mum left her