DSC not 'at home' with us?

[minesacoffee]

Hi,
I am a long time lurker on this topic, and have finally decided to post as I would love to know if other families can relate to our situation. It is a hard to convey exactly what I mean- but will give it a go!

Background- Have been with DP for around 10 years. He has two DC, a boy and a girl, from previous relationship who are now early teen and mid-teen in age. We also have a DD together who is 4yo. I have therefore been in DSC lives for a long time and we have a really good relationship thankfully. It hasn't always been easy- but that has been more to do with DP and ex's relationship (civil but not friendly) and other stuff rather than the children themselves. They have their moments like any teenager, but all is well generally. One thing that may be relevant is that both DP and ex parent separately as there is so little discussion between them nowadays due to clashes when the children were younger.

Now to the point- DP has a good relationship with all the DC, but both he and I acknowledge that there is a 'distance' between himself and the older two. Ever since they were small, we have tried hard to help them feel part of the household. They have always had some of their own stuff here, they take things between the two houses, included in decisions etc etc. DP has always been keen to see them and has taken an interest in their hobbies, friends and schooling. But over the years, even from when they were small, they have never really seemed 'at home'. They come here happily, we do stuff together, sometimes we take them to their own activities/see friends but they never fully relax. They have always seemed just slightly edgy, i suppose 'happy to see us, happy to go' sums it up really. They seem to check thir watches a lot when it is leading up to them being picked up and when they hear their Mum's car they leap up, quick kiss and dash off. We see them regularly- at least every other weekend and sometimes in between. He has never been a Disney Dad thankfully, we do 'treat' things with them sometimes but not often enough for it to be a big draw for them.

DP and I have chatted about it, and he has said although he loves them totally, he does feel a bit like an Uncle, for example, rather than their Dad- not because of how much he loves them, but because the genuine 'closeness' is not there iyswim. He said that although he loves all three children the same, he finds being with DD much easier in some way as we are free to make whatever choices we want for her, whereas, quite naturally, there has always been the ex involved with the older two. He always has to think whether decisions he makes will have repurcussions from their mum.

I can't praise him enough as a Dad, but it is sad that there is that distance there. I think that as the children edge towards adulthood we can both see that if left to their own accord we will see very little of them unless we try to encourage it ourselves Sorry this is so long- it really is hard to put across what I mean but does anyone else have experience of this?

I'm in a very similar situation to you actually, 2 DSC's and one DD with my partner. Also together 10 years!
I've noticed that DP's ex seems to have a much stronger role with the kids, and always has done, even though they have always lived 50:50 between our houses, but it is his ex who has always sorted out things like passports, the kids are with doctors near her house, she gets their hair cut and so on. So given all that, I'm not surprised that the kids to look more to their Mum for those roles in their lives.
I think many kids at this age are beginning to flex their wings and it may not be so much that they are itching to get back to Mum per se, but their lives in general - friends, familiarity and so on.
I am a believer that you reap what you sow with kids, and hopefully in the long term, the fact that you have nurtured a good steady relationship with these kids, will mean that they do stay in touch with you and their Dad and sister.

I can remember as a teen staying with dad and stepmum and just wanting to get home so I could sulk sit in my room and watch tv and chill out. Mums house was always home and dads never was. I just never felt at home there- they weren't unwelcoming or unkind - the opposite!
They lived in a different town which made me feel quite cut off from my own life and friends and boyfriend.

As I grew up I enjoyed going there more - it was by the sea so it was a cool place for a cheap holiday!

We have this. I've been with DH for 2 years and his DSSs come every other weekend DSS1 acts like a guest, DSS2 is more one of the family when here. I think every home probably has a very different 'culture' to some extent.
Also DSS1 clearly expects to be 'entertained' here, whereas I presume he isn't like that in his mothers house.

Bleeding iPhone, 10 years not 2

Thanks for the replies!

Beamur-I agree with you about the familiarity/lifestyle and yes, they are probably wanting to get back to that rather than get away from us...hopefully! We don't have as many gadgets, TV's in bedrooms etc which they do with their mum, but they do bring handheld consoles etc sometimes. It's hard re. friends- we don't live far away from their mum and over the years we have tried to encourage them to invite a friend over here or offered to ring up ourselves but that has never really materialised apart from the odd occasion. I wonder if it's because many of their friends' parents are socially very friendly with DSC mum and it feels awkward for them.

Kaluki- good to hear from a SC point of view! I really do hope that we do have a close relationship as they grow older. Especially for DD's sake. Did your dad live too far to make it possible for you to have friends over, or was it never offered? I am interested in the reasoning why my DSC have been so reluctant to see local friends as I mentioned above.

allnew-yes, the entertainment factor is difficult. They spend no time in their rooms reading, chilling etc.which kind of adds to the sense of falseness-whilst it is sweet that they want to be with us, it is not a realistic way for a family to be.

Hi, I am on the other side of this, DSS lives here and has regular contact with mum. Slightly different situation as she is based away for work, so it is no-one's full time home IYSWIM. DSS really wants to see her, but he has told us it feels different being there.

One of the things I think is he has no chores there, nothing is expected of him, so it is always a bit like a visit. They seem to have no routines, whereas we always clean the house at the weekend, that kind of thing, DSS knows what is going to happen here (because we are predictably boring).

I wonder how much you are carrying on with your normal life when they are there? If you put everything on hold because they are visiting, it will feel more like a visit IYSWIM. If you don't already, maybe start getting them to muck in cleaning the car or tidying out the understairs cupboard, something comradely?

Interesting about chores- I try and fit most things in during the week, and the dsc do sometimes help with the odd bits we do at weekends, but perhaps not enough. Maybe I shall save some chores especially for the weekends...

Things were a little better 4 years ago when dd was born, but they dont seem hugely interested in her now unfortunately though they do love her.. Again, this is probably completely normal teenage behaviour but sadly a 4 year old doesn't understand why they don't want to play or read to her when she hasn't seen them for one or two weeks. But that is probably a thread in its own right.

I am a step daughter - my dad and step mum got together when I was about 12. Mum and dad had split up when I was 10.

I never felt at home in their house because it was not my home. I was happy to visit and had no issues there but it was not my home. I had no friends round there and never met anyone round there. I had a step brother who I got on ok with but it was his home not mine.

But I am and was fine with this - home was with my mum and I "visited" with my dad. I adore my step mum and she is an important part of my life. She is a granny to our children and as close to them as my own mum. I joke with my dad that if he were to split with her that we would have custody of her not him!

I guess what I am trying to say is don't try and force things. Be a comfortable and happy environment for them. You may not be home but you will be a "home from home".

I agree with the chores thing. My two dsc have chores here at DPs n they both say this is home. Esp the dsd who is 8. She has to tidy her room, hang the clothes up, clean the bathroom etc she moans ( obviously its so unfair!) but she knows if she doesn't there's no fun stuff happening. Same with dinner, she lays the table etc. eldest Dss 13 is the one who does the heavier jobs, gets wood in, bottle bank run, hoovering eyc. They both love being here and would probably say they have two homes I think. They do have friends here though so getting out n playing nearby isn't an issue. Plus we have friends over with their kids to act as entertainment IUSWIM. Chill on the worrying and continue to be yourselves with may e a more natural routine n they will get it in time. :)

currently have this with dd who is 6, she is increasingly refusing to go to exps initially refusing to sleep there, now dhe refuses to go at weekend. She says it is not her home and they dont feel like her family so she wants to stay at home.

I am at a loss with this to be honest, whilst i recognise that she should and must spend time with her dad, I dont feel she should be forced, however i did have a frank talk with her today about it and had to tell her that in fact the would say she must spend time with her dad. didnt know what else to say as I am exhausted with the constant convwerstaion from her about this.

I think maybe for the older children there may be problems with feeling like living two lives that may be difficult with regards to friends, my dd certanly feels thier is more preasure on her at her dads house and she feels she cant just relax she says she cant say why, but i can imagine it is to do with an unintential superficial aspect to the relationship, I feel this maybe true for some maybe, though not saying this is true in your situation.

that should be that the law would say

Dangerous When my DSS has said similar (he started around the same age, doesn't say it often but occasionally does say he doesn't want to go to mum's - sometimes because he is angry with her) my DP says 'Your mum and I have worked out the best times for you to see your mum, I believe it is important you see your mum and you are not old enough to make the decision not to see her so there is no discussion'. I feel this line will hold until secondary school, then we will have to see if he is going to push not seeing his mum and work out how to respond.

I don't think its a good idea to just say it is 'the law' making her see her dad, it sounds like you don't think she should see him IYSWIM? I think she should have no option but to see her dad at the age you describe, if you think it is right she sees her dad then you tell her you think she should go.

If you don't think she should see her dad because contact is damaging, he is abusive or whatever, then you should state those reasons to him and stop or reduce contact - as an adult it is your decision at the moment and it isn't right to let a young child to feel they have the option to make this decision IMO.

I am a step child (on both sides) so I can relate; my mum's house was always *mine" but I visited my dad's on weekends. This was simply because for most of the time I was at my own house, therefore most of my stuff was there and familiar etc.

my dads felt even less "mine" when stepmum moved in and wanted to change everything, from decor to routines etc. My relationship with my dad has broke down sadly.....

OP: every other weekend really isn't a lot, so i'm not surprised they don't seem at home.

chelen, I do agree with you in part, and I certanly dont think exp is damaging or abusive any way, however there are factors that he can do to make things better for dd and she has been consistantly telling him that that she does not feel at home and is bored etc etc and he has taken no steps to imporove this and I have told him that in my opinion there should be a routine in when they see each other etc, but he still calls the day or two before and she then gets upset. Funily enough the only day I can get her to go with far less fuss is on the only weekeday he sees her regularly. I feel he should be recognisisng these things before DD should be packed off on his terms only.

WRT to saying the law etc that was a last ditch attempt after having thousands of conversations coming from different angles including you are going you have no say, to you must see your dad to dragging her off me and bundled in the car. to im simply to discussing it with her. I do feel her needs and requests should be taken into account as far as is reasonable. But she must realise she is not able to decide to never see him again at her age as if taken through the courts, she would need to see him. I want her to realise that as when she is 10 or 11 she may decide not to have a relationship with him and I want her to know why she could not make that decission prior. I do think she she should see him and it makes me sad for them bith that she does not want to, but realisticly she must just now and when she is old enough I would hope she looks at this better and is less hard on her dad. But ultimatly it is up to him to be changing this and I see little sfort despite the fact he does love her.

10 or 11, I know it's okay by law but I wouldn't be telling her it is her decision then if to have a relationship with Dad. Awfully young

dangerous It sounds like the lack of predictable routine is causing a problem. Have you seen a solicitor at all? In this situation I'd be tempted to do all I could to pin him down to a fixed pattern. Its not fair on her waiting for call. That sheds a different light on things really.

And I agree 10/11 is awfully young, we hope DSS doesn't kick off that young as we don't want to drag him there, neither do we agree with him not seeing mum - we're afraid of ending up stuck between rock and hard place.

that is the problem chelen it is stuck between a rock and a hard place. I dont think it is too young at 10 or 11 if Im honest, as most children who have a loving nurturing parent are not likely at that age to make such a decission. I stopped seeing my dad long beofre then and that was my decission, my mum did all shecould to maintain contact, but then he was an abusive drunk, so a very different story to dd or anyone elses situation so far on this thread.

It is very difficult, in an ideal world children would not be in this situation, but I think that it is important to consider thier views and needs and look for reasons why and solutions to accomodate every one, I think adults so too often take children for granted and the uncondontional love aspect and forget that children do not always hold the value of unconditional love and are not able to just accept a parent because they are the parent and that is the end of it, there are certain things a parent should do without question to nurture a child love and development and that takes effort not just presence.

It never occurred to me to take friends there tbh. I suppose i could have if I'd wanted to.
I had my own room and he tried to make it nice but all my stuff was at mums and my friends were all there.
I didn't dislike going though - I loved seeing my dad (especially when he took me to the pub and let me smoke ) it was like a mini holiday every other week!!

But dangerous, 10 or 11 isn't old enough to know what is good for you. A child may have a loving, nurturing parent but they can't see it if, for example, that parent is stricter or less fun than the other parent, or if the other parent has run them down so the child beleives they aren't a good parent IYKWIM.

10 and 11 isn't old enough to make pretty much any other decision - what to eat, where to shop, whether to go to school or not.. and there's a good reason for that - they don't have the maturity to make life changing decisions. I'd say choosing if to have a relationship with a parent or not is pretty lifechanging.

In the case of the abusive drunk - clearly the child can and should be able to choose to leave the relationship. But if my DD told me at that age she didn't want to see her dad I'd be very concerned.

I think that it's okay, at least "normal" for children to have one place that is real "home" and if that's how they feel - but are happy to visit there then it shouldn't be pushed.

I put my hands up to correcting DSD when she would say "home" about Mum's and "Your House" about our house I would say "darling it's your home, you have two homes!" and she would smile (weakly in hindsight). After a few months she started to refer to both houses as "home" and I took that as a sign that it was how she felt - I don't think it ever was, I think she was just towing the line as the moment her visits to here cut down she made a big deal of not calling this house as home and had a liberated air about her when she said it. I wish I hadn't pushed it - you can't make them feel something that they dont and labels don't really matter anyway.

I do agree though that a normal home routine should add to it feeling like home. If you treat them like guests they'll behave and feel like one.

"if my DD told me at that age she didn't want to see her dad I'd be very concerned"

That is my exact point, children do play parents off against each other, say hurtfull things, but I would not have thought many would cut another parent out just because they are strickt or less fun, i dont know a single one. therefore if they had made that decission I would be concerned enough to be finding out why and supporting them through that either way.

I understand what you say about the influence of the other parent running one parent down and that is very sad, but even still if maintaining that contact is destressing I feel an older child should be able to make that choice. the circumstances are very wrong granted and the other parent has the backing of the court who would be able to take all circumstances into consideration.

As for life changing decissions I do belive when it comes to school etc there are circumstanes where it would be very appropriate for a child to be involved in dession making.

I think nambysm has summed up for many how it is, "I do agree though that a normal home routine should add to it feeling like home. If you treat them like guests they'll behave and feel like one"

This is how it is for my dd at her dads house and this is very damaging, there is constant preasure on her at 6 years old to entertain and be entertained, she is not able to just slide off and play, she is less confident at making a mess, watching T.V asking for a drink, playing out alone, less relaxed around her father than the other children in the house who are not his. this makes the relationship very superfurficial and by nature very conditional in her eyes. Sometimes the abscent parent is blinkered to these things as they have preassure to keep that child happy all the time and fail to listen to what they truelly need and want.

Anyway this thread has inspired me Op so thanks and sorry for hijacking, but is is usefull to see all perspectives. i have sta down today with dd after she said she doesnt want to see him this week. So i told her she needs to talk to him about this and she wrote a list that she is going to talk to him about the things that are making her feel like this and no 1 on the list was, I have been telling you but you have not listened....

We'll have to agree to disagree dangerous. Children of together parents don't have to suffer the burden of such decisions so I find it unfair that children of separated parents should have to. All the while they are children, adults should be making the big decisions for them. And at 10/11, even 13/14 they are still very much children.
The law says a child can't decide if to go to school or not, it doesn't matter what parents think.

The parent doesn't have the backing of the court, the court lets the child decide - and often that child has been trained/ abused and is incapable of making such a huge decision.

namby to be fair, even without abuse or alienation, it is a decision many, if not most, adults would struggle with - imagine asking yourself do I hurt my mums feelings, or my dads?

dangerous your DD already suspects that you don't want her to spend time with her dad- if you did, you'd tell her so, not absolve yourself of responsibility and blame the legal system. So that is the choice your DD will have - does she upset you, by seeing dad even though you disapproves, or does she upset dad by telling him she doesn't want to see him because then you won't be unhappy/disapproving/cross.

In these situations, the child generally choses to 'upset' the parent who they believe is more emotionally invested in them - in other words, they reject the parent who they believe is most likely to continue to love them unconditionally.

you have that very wrong disneymum, I think you should read my posts. You have made some very wild assumptions there based on nothing i have posted here.

dd is very secure in her raltionship with me. The things I have said here about the reasons why my dd does not want to see her dad, i have not voicecd to my dd, Incidently they are the reasons she has voiced to me. she does not want to see her dad because she does not feel like he is her parent based on the way his relationship is with her, nothing to do with mine.

I have not blamed the law. i have used it as another honest explination as to why she can not decide never to see her dad ever again, (as much as I would if she told me she never wants to go to school again.

This is her wish and I obviously do not think she is able to make that decission at 6. if as an older child she continues with this I feel i would be less able to force her as I do now and I believe that would not be down to my influnce but down to the relationship her father has failed to build with her.