DSC not 'at home' with us?

[minesacoffee]

Hi,
I am a long time lurker on this topic, and have finally decided to post as I would love to know if other families can relate to our situation. It is a hard to convey exactly what I mean- but will give it a go!

Background- Have been with DP for around 10 years. He has two DC, a boy and a girl, from previous relationship who are now early teen and mid-teen in age. We also have a DD together who is 4yo. I have therefore been in DSC lives for a long time and we have a really good relationship thankfully. It hasn't always been easy- but that has been more to do with DP and ex's relationship (civil but not friendly) and other stuff rather than the children themselves. They have their moments like any teenager, but all is well generally. One thing that may be relevant is that both DP and ex parent separately as there is so little discussion between them nowadays due to clashes when the children were younger.

Now to the point- DP has a good relationship with all the DC, but both he and I acknowledge that there is a 'distance' between himself and the older two. Ever since they were small, we have tried hard to help them feel part of the household. They have always had some of their own stuff here, they take things between the two houses, included in decisions etc etc. DP has always been keen to see them and has taken an interest in their hobbies, friends and schooling. But over the years, even from when they were small, they have never really seemed 'at home'. They come here happily, we do stuff together, sometimes we take them to their own activities/see friends but they never fully relax. They have always seemed just slightly edgy, i suppose 'happy to see us, happy to go' sums it up really. They seem to check thir watches a lot when it is leading up to them being picked up and when they hear their Mum's car they leap up, quick kiss and dash off. We see them regularly- at least every other weekend and sometimes in between. He has never been a Disney Dad thankfully, we do 'treat' things with them sometimes but not often enough for it to be a big draw for them.

DP and I have chatted about it, and he has said although he loves them totally, he does feel a bit like an Uncle, for example, rather than their Dad- not because of how much he loves them, but because the genuine 'closeness' is not there iyswim. He said that although he loves all three children the same, he finds being with DD much easier in some way as we are free to make whatever choices we want for her, whereas, quite naturally, there has always been the ex involved with the older two. He always has to think whether decisions he makes will have repurcussions from their mum.

I can't praise him enough as a Dad, but it is sad that there is that distance there. I think that as the children edge towards adulthood we can both see that if left to their own accord we will see very little of them unless we try to encourage it ourselves Sorry this is so long- it really is hard to put across what I mean but does anyone else have experience of this?

I tell my dd every hour of every day, as that is how regular she brings the converstaion up that I think she should see her dad and that she may be making her dad sad by saying she does not want to see him ever again. It is very difficult and exhausting to have a 6 year old stressing about contact with her dad all day every day.

But by using "The Law" as the reason, this says that when it is no longer the law it is fine that she no longer sees her Dad.

She's only six, surely with 5 or 6 years to go until she can make the decision for herself you have a long time to use more accurate persuasion methods than "it's the law" such as how it is best for her to have a relationship with her Dad.

From what I read, he hasn't done anything to warrant losing a relationship with his daughter for, even though she may prefer your company and her time at your house.

I can understand that it is very stressful, I'm sorry, I should have said that first.
But I don't think the law or the fact that it makes Dad sad is quite the point. It's about her well being.

dangerous if your six year old DD is so preoccupied with seeing (or not seeing) her Dad that she raises the subject every hour, then she would benefit from some professional support to help her deal with the issues - can your GP to refer her to a child counsellor or play therapist?

I'm sure the school will help as well ; they will undoubtedly have noticed a difference in her behaviour - she sounds like a very anxious little girl right now

dangerous - I can still recall walking down the street with my DS to his Dad's when he was about 5, crying as I did so and embarassed as he shouted at the top of his voice "I DON'T WANT TO GO TO DADDY'S HOUSE" and everyone looked at me. I simply told him that he was going, just as he sometimes had to go to school when he didn't feel like it.

He's 12 now and has a solid relationship with his dad. His dad when we first split up was a bit rubbish at knowing what to do with him and his younger sister, but over time he's found ways of parenting. If I hadn't pushed him when you my ex would have been unlikely to fight me so they could easily both have ended up with very little relationship with their dad.

OP - realise your steps are quite a bit older, so not so easy - though doesn't sound like they're really resisting coming. Maybe they need to have a bit more time just kicking around at home without anything going on to help them feel at home. Getting them involved in helping cook meals - or setting them the challenge of doing it alone if they're up to it - is a good way of helping feel at home, as well as a useful life skill. It may be that now your DD is 4 it feels very much like her home, and a bit less like theirs.

as I have said many times and this is falling on deaf ears, I have not used the law as the one and only singular reason why she needs to see her dad, I have and do tell her every single day all things you both say and all the other reasons she cant make that desision ad why she must see her dad.. She also has no idea that at anytime further down the line she can make that decission.

I do agree disneymum something does need to be done, however he also needs to be on boared and he is not. I am reluctatant to get any professional support as I do not think this would help dd in any way for the better just now. It is not dd with the problem it is the relationship with her father that is the problem, gp, psychologist etc will not improve this. they will just help dd come to the knowledge we already know that her father is ignoring.

I have also investigated local groups and activities for exp to visit with dd and seek advice for himself, but he has done nothing to arrange to take dd to any of these or to talk to some one about this, where as I have talked with someone at our sure start centre who helped me investigate these groups. I therefore feel I have done an awfull lot in supporting them both, however ultimatly, I can not improve things for either of them, this needs to come from him.

I strongly believe you get out what you put in.

dangerous so you don't think that your DD would benefit from support to help her develop strategies to deal with the realities of her life - you instead are prepared to stand by and watch her continue to struggle while blaming her father for the problem and insisting that he changes his approach.

You can't change him; you can help your DD, though, if you wanted to

I dont agree Im standing by doing nothing, at the moment there are more practical steps to help her cope with her life that i am doing. Just now i do not think she will benifit from professional support.

I am not blaming I am taking a realistic judgement of the situation and if some of that falls on his shoulders that that is the reality of it.

I am helping my dd, through supporting her to communicate with her dad, this has taken may different steps so far and there are more steps with in that before other stratogies should be investigated.

proffessional support that you describe will not support the parent who is failing to meet her needs. would you believe a child who is in a full time home and is being neglected should have proffessional help to cope rather than practical steps to help and engae with that parent. would you not want to improve the home life of that child. because quite frankly if she was livingh with him full time the current situation would be viewed as neglctfull, as much love he gives that is not enough to meet her needs.

dangerous - of course it is entirely up to you, but I am sure I am not the only one wondering why you are so resistant to the idea of seeking professional support for your DD, rather than trying to deal with it on your own - you have admitted yourself, it is and incredible difficult and stressful situation for you both.

There has been a lot of recent publications about situations like your own; and how the DC's in these situations can be best supported to prevent long term relationship issues and dysfunction as they get older - have you read any?

If your DD is raising this issue hourly to you, then it is at the forefront of her thoughts, at the expense of everything else - and will undoubtedly impact on her attention at school, and may even lead to regression in her physical skills, too, as she will be paying less attention to those, which are fairly recently acquired. The school will already be paying her closer attention due to the change in family circumstances; the separation is quite recent, isn't it?

It is likely that her teacher will raise their concerns with you sooner rather than later as the situation begins to impact on your DD's behaviour and demeanour in class. I'm sure they will be able to reassure you that your DD will do nothing but benefit from additional support.

we have been seperated since I was pg. i have discussed with school already and with no sugestion of proffesional support coming from them either.

i am also qualified enough in child development and family relationships to take a realistic view and assesment of the situation.

It surprises me that child counselling/therapy could in some way damage your DD, and hence should be avoided until required - is that a widely held professional view? It is not one that I came across - in fact, without exception, everyone (teachers, GP, family support worker) recommended professional support for my DD and DSS at different times, on the basis that it wouldn't do them any harm at all and may help - which it did, enormously.

As you have experience in the field, you have probably already come across Welcome Back Pluto; it provides a range of advice and support for both parents whose DC's are in the same position as your DD. Have you sent a copy to your ex? I'm sure it would help him understand his role in solving the problem.

i didnt say it could damge her I said it would not help her at this current time, there are more practical steps we need to take. I think you are clutching at straws now and twisting my words and so Im not enaging with you further on this matter.

I didn't understand that he was neglecting her. I thought he just parented in a different way to you.

If he is neglecting her than why are you standing by her having to have contact with him? If there is neglect then she shouldn't be seeing him.

If there isn't neglect then it is worrying that she has such strong views on dad being "bad" whhen actually he is human like all of us and just parents differently to Mum. It's always hard for children to make the distinction between the different weays of life in different homes but a lot do manage it.

he is not willfully neglecting her but he is failing to meet her needs, and as long as that only needs to be put with occassionaly then that has been good enough, but it is no longer good enough as it is having such an impact upon her. if she was living full time or even half the time in a home where she has no bed or space of her own or belongings or stimulation and eating inadequatly then that would be viewed as neglectfull and would have a larger impact upon her development granted, but the fact is now these issues are begining to having an impcat on her needs being met.

I would rather work with him to help him ralise this, it is begining to happen, however it is taking time But if it does not happen then one day she will decide she wants nothing to do with him.

actually when I initially posted on this thread I had not really thought this was damaging in anyway, just upsetting and unpredictable, whilst she is not in imediate danger I realise now it is actully making her a very anxiouse and emotional child and that in its self is damaging.

I think that any 6 year old who is consistently raising an issue every hour is likely to be a clear sign that the child is anxious or stressed about the matter.

If my child was consistently anxious or stressed I would be taking all steps I could to resolve it. That is likely to include enabling the child to explore his or her thoughts in an age appropriate way with a qualified third party.

It must be very hard for you. There is a lot of information that suggests that children who reject one parent become very confused as teenagers and adults because in doing so they reject themselves ? what with themself being half made up of that parent. I?m sure you know more about that than me in your line of work so I don?t wish to patronise.

We always bring baggage to these treads and I have a very troubled step daughter who has always complained about coming to dad?s although he is an excellent father. He just parents very, very differently to her mother whom she is closer too. Mum has actively supported her Daughter in alienating her dad which I am not suggesting you have done so the situation is different.

I don?t want to project but I do think that without professional support there may be trouble ahead. Of course you are supporting your DD but your anger towards your ex is evident in your posting and children are incredibly sensitive to our feelings don?t you think? Maybe someone on the outside could help. If my DD was anxious on an hourly basis about something ? be it spiders, the dark, going to school, or going to her Dad?s I would seek help.

My DD?s dad was fairly useless for the first few years that we were apart (when DD was 1 ? 4 years old) and she used grumble about not having a room there or many toys, rubbish food actually she didnt complain, she loved living on crisps but I hated it and he used to palm her off on his parents most of the time (still does quite a bit!) but he is engaged now to a lovely lady and he has really come on a lot in the parenting stakes. He communicates with DD better and plans activities, he helps with homework and she even gets to bed at a suitable time on the odd occasion DD is now very close to her dad.

She is only six but I often see her looking at him like he?s a bit of a numpty. I know she thinks of my house as ?home? but she is close to her dad and that will be very powerful as she goes through her life. At least I know she won?t end up as messed up as her stepsister who truly hates her father for no reason other than that he disciplines her and doesn?t take her shopping as much as mum