Please help - things have moved on and I really need some advice...

[nambysm]

Phew - now all that bizarre stuff is coming to a natural end can I have some attention please?

I don't want to drip feed so ask away if things aren't clear but there is a backstory that a lot of you are aware of so I won't repeat the whole thing now if okay.

DH got DSD's phone bill today (she is on a contract which is £20 a month for her iphone as he works for a phone provider so half price of £40) it came in at £60 and when he investigated it was because she has been sending picture messages which she has been warned about and spending too long online.

First question - what would you have done?

He called her up, told her what had happened and said he had disconnected her internet for one month (she can still use calls and texts) and she would have to pay him back.

She said she wasnt happy with that, not fair etc etc (standard teenage, no big deal)

But then she calls back and he was in the loo (he actually was not like piratesdh) so she left him the longest, eaariest VM I have ever heard. Totally cool calm voice, sounded just like her Mum, emphasis on same words etc. saying the most horrid, personal things ranging from "You are dead to me, I have never loved you" to "Your beard makes me feel sick" "No one has ever loved you, no one cares about you" "Stepdad is my real Dad, he actually has a heart" "you disgust me and you will never see me again" "you have a hunchback you pathetic little retard" (he has a slight bump in his spine and it's one of the things that his ex wife used to pick on)

She says she'snot coming to us tomorrow for my DD's birthday party (She should be here tonight but as often happens, something else came up)

I could go on.

Where do we go from here? My heart is breaking for him. He has been amazing throughout this whole thing. When she originally pulled away from contact after CSAgate he took a while to decide if the time he spent with her should be "Disney" to protect the scraps of her that he had left, or if he should continue to try to parent her. He decided the latter and I am so proud of him as it isn't easy.

But this is just unbearable. Because of the scenario her mum has created, DSD is unable to see these situations for what they are. I mean, this is soooo normal. I don't expect her to say, "Why, thank you Daddy, this discipline will enable me to grow in to a responsible young lady" I would expect a level of resistance - maybe even a screamed "I hate you!" I know I said that to my dad a few time (Sorry, Dad - I now know how that must have felt!) but she can only see it in the context of how she perceives DH to have treated her Mum when they spilt up, and what a victim her Mum and her are and, crucially, the competiton for her Mum to be top parent.

I advised him to contact Mum and ask for a meeting with the three of them to get all this out in the open (mum has signed that she's having teen troubles) but Mum as come back to say no, I have the normal teen roblems but I can handle them, DD just doesn't want to see you and hasn't for quite some time - I have told her she has to as it's the law (WTF!? It's not, and DSD isn't that stupid. Plus, what kind of a mixed message when back in December she was told she didn't have to come here anymore as Mum was main parent and it was up to DDand her if she saw Dad!)

I'm at a loss. What can we do? DH is so upset.

So much for no advice! Lol

I need to understand that once and for all. It's so hard to see how parenting can work when the two parents can't communicate.
I just wish they could as it would be do much better for dsd.
Need to get over it.

Sorry, new baby is mums not ours. I think the arrival will cause a lot of stress and drama at home which dsd will need respite from.

Disconnect the internet for another month. You need nerves of steel for this stuff but if you just give in, it will only get worse. You might have a period of not seeing her (and I know only too well how horribly painful that is) but keep texting her and leaving her ordinary, chatty messages and eventually it will in all likelihood be OK.

Hopefully in the longer term that will be good as dsd will seek refuge.

Perhaps the "I'm concerned/worried about your leaving such a crual V/M, their will always be a home with us regardless, we love you and will always be here for you"

In fact perhaps part of this is projecting all her subconcious fears about the new baby and how scared/angry/insecure it's making her feel and your dp is the easy target?

Namby - God your poor DH. How cruel and spiteful of her.
Sounds like her mum is behind her - encouraging her and brainwashing her.
I don't know what to advise - just don't back down. She was in the wrong and Your DH definitely needs to stand by her punishment. I think I wouldn't even acknowledge the message to be honest in the hope that she will feel guilty and apologise but maybe thats a bit naive!

That's another alternative, pretend it didn't work that it didn't record, if she says anything do the "erm you must have dialled the number wrong"

She is only 13 though, so it isnrt really fair to paint her as a vindictive adult. Yes she is very unkind, but as a product of her upbringing (in which both parents participate) is also very mixed up.

I think your only opton is to rise above it and treat it as a teenage / toddler tantrum. Keep reaching out to her. As someone once said to me, teenagers need your love most when they deserve it least.

Can you convert the contract to PAYG and put £20 credit on it a month? Up to her what she spend it on, but that's all she's getting?

I know she's only 13 that VM was just soooo grown up and evil. She must be seriously angry to have left something so cruel.
He can't change the contract, it shot 18 months left. She'd be even more pissed of with 20 credit as it wouldn't touch the sides of what she "needs" it for.

Mums parting text was "you know her phone is her while world, what did you expect?" err, a normal teenage strop maybe?

Damn iPhone "whole" world.

Oh and she's now also saying that she stopped dsd coming here in the week because it was upsetting dsd and nothing to do with maintenance even though (if her claims are true) dsd hadn't wanted to come here for over three years, yet was granted the decision to choose on the exact day that dh decreased his payments how can someone rewrite history like that do blatantly!?

Dh isn't without fault. He admits to letting mum do most of the parenting, or rather disciplining abs guidance of dd. his mum did most of the parenting of him and his sister and he trusted his wife to do the same. It was only a year or so after the divorce that he gained the confidence to believe in his own parenting and saw that he wasn't some bumbling joker but a sensible father. He's not the most affectionate dad either which plays in to mums hands very well. I guess he could make more of an effort there. But his punishments far out way his crimes

I don't presume to offer any advice, because that's shocking behaviour, but just a couple of questions/meandering thoughts:

Do you think that she is lashing out at her dad because it's 'safe' to do so when her relationship with her mum feels threatened by the imminent arrival of the new baby? Maybe because her dad and you have worked so hard to provide consistency for her, she feels that she can/has to push your boundaries even harder. Is she testing to see where the love ends? I've always thought that this kind of behaviour has more in common with self-harm than anything else - it's dangerous and it hurts but it helps her to blow off the steam.

Is her behaviour related to hormones? Im not trying to excuse her because she has been spectacularly horrible, but... My SD used to be like an emotional whirlwind when she had PMT, which was unfamiliar to me as I'd never come across it to such extremes before and it manifested in cruel, bizarre attacks on her dad and utter irrationality. The pill helped so much with that when she was 16 that we were shocked that we hadn't realised before what was going on.

Do you think she might have been influenced by tv? There are so many teen shows where characters go on long rants at others and are greeted by cheers from the studio audience, especially when they stay calm and say devastating things rather than get upset.

Is this an old-fashioned tantrum in exactly the two-year-old sense? I read that young teens are undergoing the same level of changes to the brain that toddlers go though and therefore have much the same needs at this time. Can your DH respond in the same way as he would to a toddler? ('I hate you!' 'Well, I love you. Now go and sit on the naughty step,' or whatever.)

Anyway, it sounds to me as if she wants a) her own way, b) attention, c) proof of love, d) to hear her own voice raised above all others, e) control, f) a smack

Wishing you strength! It really does sound like a horrible situation.

namby this all sounds horribly familiar

If you can, encourage your DP to watch Pluto again - and if you haven't already, buy a copy of Divorce Poison, too. Karen Woodall has been publishing extracts from her upcoming book about alienation on her blog, too - worth subscribing too.

Your DP had done the right thing by continuing to parent her - but it is a very hard choice to make.

My only advice to your DP would be don't engage with her mum - inform her of decision you have made and actions you have taken, but forget about trying to influence her parenting.
Oh, and encourage your DP to develop a relationship with the school. Arrange meetings with relevant staff, explain how worried he is and how with everything that is going on (estranged from Dad, new sibling etc) it is undoubtedly affecting her academically - DP had to persevere, but eventually someone listened and DSD was offered some support in a way she was prepared to accept

Very wise words on those last 2 posts.

Parent her, now, for God's sake!!

Well, we've now been told that as mum has done a course in children and young peoples work force she knows that you shouldn't punish teenagers because it causes anger and insecurity so dh is basically a bully and a nasty father. He should have just talked to her about the phone bill, apparently.

namby I give it less than 12 months before she changes her mind!

She cares about what other people think; doesn't she? That's what eventually led to DPs ex having a reality check - DSD posted that 'she hates her dad' on FB and all her mums colleagues (who were DSD's FB friends) saw it and started asking what was going on - ex did not come out of that looking like the better parent!

I get what you're saying nadm... If my dd said such a thing I would see it as a failing on both mine and her Dad's part. But dsd's mum seems to like people to know that dsd hates her Dad. It's like validation

Dsd swears in FB and occasionally Mum will comment, but it's along the lines of "darling, that language is ugly, pls don't use it. I love you xxxxxxx" which just ISN'T working!

It's a joke when you out it in words isn't it!?

Ah yes, ex was happy for DSD to publicly revile her father until her friends and colleagues asked her what she was doing to help DSD

It was the sheer venom and frequency that led other adults to express concern, rather than unconditional sympathy, and ex was no longer able to dismiss it as DPs fault - its hard to place the blame for a DCs behaviour on a parent who has been excluded from that child's life for over a year!

It will happen, I'm sure - there will be all sorts of professionals involved in your DSD's mums life in the next months and years - midwives, HV's etc - and they will make observations and ask seemingly innocent questions to build up a picture of what is going on in their families life.

That's a good point, she won't be able to avoid the health visitors and such. And I will advise dh to get more involved with school. He's had a few meetings there now.
Mum is just so well poised, I don't know if the health visitors/teachers etc have the time to dedicate to seeing through it

Sorry for all the sad faces!!

notnowimreading thanks for all your thoughts - all very relevant for sure. It could be all if those reasons, and is probably a mixture of - but how do we tackle it in the context of overbearing Mum!? She had point blank refused a meeting with her and dsd and Dad. Says its not fair to put dsd on the spot, she's too upset, is only reacting as any teen girl would to "so much beating down and criticism" etc...

Sorry - one more thought - I think the "her voice heard above all else" is poignant. She has, IMO, never heard her voice above her Mums. I would say in any conversation I have heard, her mum has 10 words to every one word of DsDs and that is being generous.

Now I'm just attention seeking

So dsd didn't even call dd for her birthday. Dd was upset, but not as much as she would have been 6 or so months ago do maybe she knows the score now.
To be honest I think dd is best off out of it actually. I would call dsd to pull her up on not calling, not "tell off" buy just question it as its a but worrying. But as DH has been accused of always having a go at her which mum says is terrible for a teens confidence, I don't think either of us want to.
All this is headed towards a very messed up, insecure young woman and dh being told its all his fault for being too strict.

He said last night to some friends that he doesn't feel he has a dd anymore.

I don't know how you tackle the mum - she sounds just as difficult as DSD. I guess you and your husband can only continue to parent as you believe is right and stick to that.

My DH got into a vicious cycle with his daughter for a while when she behaved very badly most of the time and he was so fed up with her it was as if he couldn't see the wood for the trees - he kept saying to other people (not her!) that he just couldn't like her and didn't respect her at the moment. She absolutely knew this and kept getting drunk then coming home late at night and ranting about what a shit father he was and that she could never do anything right so what was the point in trying, that she was going to try to get pregnant now so that she could show him how to be a 'real' parent. Just horrible. Thank goodness, we had a break from it when she moved in with her mum. They had about four weeks when DH hardly saw her, and during that time they both relaxed and calmed down. Then they were able to be genuinely pleased to see each other, DH was able to give her small amounts of praise about things like her hair and being on time to meet him for a coffee. Gradually gradually they were able to change the tone of their interactions and get back pleasure in the relationship. However, I'm very aware that this was a different situation from yours as my stepdaughter was 17 and her mother is actually a very decent woman. Her mother was furious with my DH for allowing the situation to deteriorate so badly (she was probably right, with hindsight) but she didn't add fuel to the fire. Actually the best thing she did was to force her daughter to go to the doc and tell the truth about how she'd been feeling so that she was put on anti-depressants.

That's rambly and probably unhelpful. The only possibly useful thing is that maybe a bit of time apart will do some good, especially if you stick to your guns in a non-confrontational way and just let it be a fact that doesn't need to be raked over.