"two mummies"

[pinguthepenguin]

I hope you don't mind me posting here. I guess I want to know if I'm reasonable to feel sad about this.

My dd, 5 came home from dads tonight and said she has 'two mummies- me and sm. She said she definitely only has 'one daddy' ( dp has been in her life for 4 years) but has 'two mummies. I smiled and said 'that's nice'....but god it hurts:(
I guess it hurts because there are other issues surrounding it all (dd never shows me any affection in front of either sm or her dad, and is very much not herself, loads more stuff tbh) but as an aside, I feel so sad that my dd feels this way about me.

Is that bad?

Clearly yes, you only have one actual mother and father. But if children want to, or are being encouraged to, use those labels for other adults who play those roles for them then to push them in it and challenge them in it isn't necessarily going to make them feel good. All it serves to do is satisfy the needs of adults with baggage.
I guess we can all agree to disagree in it. But the professionals agree with me so I'll carry on doing it my way.

Of course it is a fact, no one said it wasn't a fact. What people are saying is that it isn't necessary to state and restate these facts, just because a given adult happens to have an inability to understand the internal emotional processes a child might be going through whilst their lives change.

Loads of kids have imaginary friends. Factually they don't exist. But psychological advice has for many many years been that kids should just be allowed to outgrow that phase.

It is similar to that.

A triangle has nothing to do with it, because as far as I know, not many humans have strong emotional feelings about triangles, nor do triangles have much place in the emotional tapestry of our lives. Triangles do not set rules, or make your dinner, or read you bedtime stories. Triangles are inanimate objects, not people with whom one develops relationships (whether good or bad).

Children have to work out why this person, who does similar things to 'mum' or 'dad' is not mum or dad. One of the ways they do that is, occasionally, by seeing how it feels to place the word 'mum' onto this other woman. What they find is that the word doesn't fit, and through that process they learn that the term 'mum' covers much more than 'woman who makes my tea and washes my clothes'.

If you rush a child through that process, you risk depriving them of a true inner understanding of the different feelings they have for their 'mum' and their 'not mum'.

I can totally understand why one wants to 'correct' children about the 'facts', but those who think this is about facts are missing the point. It is about feelings. Let them work it out, they will. Kids are clever, they know what feels right and what doesn't. They don't need adults stating the bleeding obvious for them.

But you can consider a number of people to be your parents, and want to give them the honour of being called such...my DH's Dad died when he was 19. His SD has been in his life for 20+ years, always encouraging, always on the other end of the phone, always a friend. DH chooses to call him Dad out of respect and recognition of the contribution FIL has made to his life.

If other people have an issue, that is their baggage - and nothing to do with triangles at all, as far as I can see. If an innocent child tries to make sense of the relationships around them, and of their own feelings in a complex family situation, and tries out different 'labels' in that process then how is it helpful to load them up with guilt and stress and adult reactions to those words?

Ooh, waht Chelen said, much better than me!

Sorry for the length of my post, I just feel and that people can't understand that facts and feelings don't always tie up, that kids have lots to learn and deserve a little space to do it in.

I found it uncomfy when DSS called me mum, so did his mum, we talked about it and agreed to give him a little space. He worked it out in three weeks.

Pingu

Could it be that she feels she has two mummies, because you both do the same things, but she doesnt have two daddies because they do different things?

This is going to be a very stereotypical example, but bear with it.

You go out to work each day, come home, tidy and clean the house, help with homework, cook meals, bath your dd, put her to bed. So does her sm. Therefore you both do the same things and as you are a mummy, so is her sm.

On the other hand, her daddy goes to work, comes home, sits on the sofa, watches tv, eats his tea, goes on the computer, and has little interaction with his dd. Your partner goes to work all day, but comes home and either cooks or does the dishes, helps tidy round, reads your dd her bedtime story. Therefore your partner doesnt do what daddy does and so isnt a daddy.

So it isnt that she calls her mummy, but feels she has two mummies because you both do the same jobs, but doesnt have two daddies, because your dp doesnt do the same 'jobs' as her daddy. I may be well off the mark, but it may not be.

Wow this thread has been busy since I've been away!
Thanks for all your input, i do appreciate the time you're taking.

I guess I should explain a few things. I had intially wanted to leave all the 'other stuff' out of this thread and deal only with the issue of dd saying she had two mummies. The reason I felt so upset about (aside from normal maternal reaction) is because it sounded so damn rehearsed.
I'll give you a clearer picture. I picked dd up from sm and exp's house and she got in the car and immediately said, " I have two mummies you know, not two daddies, I only have one daddy, but I have two mummies". So there I am...perplexed as to why she had even said hello to me, but specifically had an urge to get this off her chest....as we pullling off exp's driveway.
She was very defensive about the way she said it, as in said in a matter of fact way and didnt want to be challenged about it. This in inself was odd because I never ever silence her on any issies surrounding exp and sm, yet dd seemed to want to ward off any potential discussion about it, so as I already explained, I smiled, said 'thats nice' and left it.

So aglasshalfempty, maybe she does see sm differently from my dp, who knows. I know that sm is defintely more hands on with her than my dp, ie, bakes cakes, has trips out etc. My dp is very much a mans man in that respect, but he is defintely a big figure in her life - we live together etc. DP wasn't offended or hurt by what she said, but instead it prompted a discussion betweeen us later ( away from dd) that we are just not bloody convinced that this move to deciding she has two mummies is oragnic.

To put this in context, my dd has been told literlaly from day 1, that sm's child is her brother, than sm's other is her grandma, that sm's sister is aunty. Now, before I get jumped on for that, I want to reiterate again - that I would have absoultely ZERO issues with any of that, if I was convinced that dd had been give - to quote chelen - the time and space to work these realtionships out, to work these 'labels' out. My dd was a newborn when sm came into her life, and it is my true belief that she wanted to homogenize their family set up.

As my dd gets older, she now again will say things like (defensively again) " I have a brother dont I? step sibling is definitely my brother isnt he?
What do I say to that? I am terrified of gettting it wrong and making her feel upset, so I say soemthing along the lines of "if you feel like xx is your brother, and it makes you feel happy having him as a brother, then thats lovely, and thats what you should call him'". Have I done the right thing there? its a bloody minefield.

That aside, my feelings are the same. I categorially believe my dd is being provided with these labels and has no 'choice' in the matter. I once asked exp not to refer to sm's mum as her gm ( dd was only 1 at the time) and he said that was what 'dd referred her to as' - all by herself, at 1years old. Erm....no that is not true. That is just not true.

Oh, I wouldn't like that at all. Stepmother is very out of place if she's insisting dd has two mummies. She has a Mummy and a Stepmother (or Stepmummy or any other term she prefers). Stepmother sounds very domineering. No doubt dd will work out Stepmother's game at some point, though.

Sounds like youve handled it really well, pay no attention to those getting you worked up about it. Your dd will work out sm's game in her own time. You'll laugh about it together when she's grown up.
On the "day 1" thing though... these people had been in her life for over a year before she was able to talk so not sure that wuld bother me. Everyone calls my gran "gran" and I have about a hundred auntie

Your DD will work it all out in time for herself, DC s are not stupid. I agree with chelen, yet again, having only 2 parents isn't 'adult baggage' but pointing out 'the bleeding obvious' is. You don't have to make your DC have to watch their words so they don't upset you, you are an adult.

er...exotoc, have I missed somethind? Did I say that I had pointed out the bleeding obvious? I explained that I let it go...drew no attention to it. Doesnt mean I'm not allowed to discuss it. I have gone out of my way to make sure she doesnt have to watch her words around me.

jeez

Balia, that's different because the biological father wasn't there and the other was in the parent role from an early age.

In that situation, it makes sense. But when there's a perfectly good father around, you don't need this other father business. The man can be Mummy's husband or Mummy's partner and their very good friend.

People are just desperate to present an image of happy families with no prior relationships or complexities. And the kids pick up on that and try to please everyone.

pingu your recent post does seem to suggest that your DD is being pressured to label people in a particular way
Have you spoken to your ex about it? Perhaps suggest mediation to discuss it, if he's as much of an arse as my ex it would be easier?

PIngu I think that the responses are aimed at some of the poor advice that you have received rather than your actions, which IMO have been excellent under very difficult circumstances.

nkf that is a very adult conclusion to draw. Children, particularly very small one, will take far longer to work out the whys, wherefores and nuances of their complex lives - they need space to do this. As ever, two wrongs to not make a right.

NADM

I have tried to speak to him in the past. He usually just tells me to 'get a fucking life', so I no longer bother. He cannot have a reasoned and logical discussion. Ever.

I have so many issues with what I have percieved to sm's overstepping of boundaries, that I guess all this 'labelling' seems pale in comparision.
Exp has something to say literally every other week about my apparant inadequacies as a mother. He never directly says 'you are crap', althogh tbh, I would prefer it if he did, but he has a more calcualtes and insidious way of presenting it all. I run the risk of outing myself in rl if I give too many details -but suffice to say I know sm plays her part in it.

They become fixated on various aspects of dd's well-bveing and it is always always 'physical', ie her weight, her oral hygiene, her clothing, her (apparant) lack of sleep, her diet. All of these things are 'lacking' it would seem, in exp (sm's) opinion and it took me YEARS to work out that they focus on her physical health because it is 'measureble' ifyswim, and that the blame can appropiated in my direction. They never EVER have anything about her social, intellectual or emotional health. Good or bad.

Its so tiring, And I feel constantly afraid.

I was replying to someone earlier pingu, who feels the need to point out that there are 2 'real' parents- something the DC can work out for themselves.

nkf Of course you mind less hearing about her mother than the mother minds hearing about you. She's not your child.

Well done for your observation, she isn't my child and so long as her mother is no longer stalking me and refrains from generally behaving like a tit then I couldnt give a flying frig what I hear about her.

however quite clearly there are 2 people that live here, and one of them is her biological parent. He manages to be grown up enough not to pull faces and say things like 'whatever' when SD mentions her mother Or her mothers boyfriend here, which is probably why she feels comfortable talking about anything here but has to watch what she says at her mothers.

Sod all to do with whether or not she is my child, you'll be telling me next because I haven't given birth I don't understand

pingu I do think it sounds like you've got lots more to contend with here than just what the thread started out as, I'm not sure what to suggest other than to stay true to yourself and your daughter and, as someone else said, your daughter will come to her own conclusions in her own time, they usually do x

Scarlett- thanks x