Frustrating weekend

[Petal02]

I?m just venting: I really struggled with DSS at the weekend. His demeanour of gloom and apathy and lifelessness is very depressing. It?s not like he brings light and laughter into our home.

We went shopping on Saturday afternoon; I can?t walk along with DH, as DSS either positions himself in between us, or walks directly in front of me, to the point where he?s nearly tripping me up. There?s no malicious intent, he?s simply over 6 ft and not very awake. He?s not interested in going off on his own to look round the shops, he just clings to DH, and its very hard to shop properly with a large lump wedged between me and the merchandise on display. I was on the verge of exploding with frustration by the time we got home.

When I was his age (he?ll be 18 in September) trailing round the shops with my parents on a Saturday afternoon would have been like sticking pins in my eyes. Next time he?s with us, I?m tempted to tell DH I?ll make my own plans, as it?s just getting ridiculous. But if I detach myself from DSS, then I detach myself from DH, and that doesn?t work for either of us. DH would dearly like DSS to be a little more independent, but he?s too Disney to give him the kick up the backside he so desperately needs, so we end up carting him round with us like a sack of spuds.

I suppose it would unreasonable of DH to say to DSS: ?Petal and I are going shopping for a few hours, we?ll see you when we get back? I can understand that he wants to spend 100% of his access weekends with DSS, and I?m not suggesting that DSS can never come out with us, but this weekend it felt particularly suffocating.

If DSS were 11, this would be completely different. But he?s not. Although his lifestyle is more like that of an 11 yr old than a young adult.

DH is no fool. He is very well aware that DSS sholdn?t be like this, but if I challenge him, he always argues ?but he?s doing very well at school? or ?at least he?s not coming home drunk every night? ? both of these statements are true, but it doesn?t negate the other problems that DH won?t discuss. He uses DSS?s school grades as an excuse not to tackle the apathy. I always sense that DH is relieved and grateful when I don?t challenge him, like most men he just wants a quiet life, and if he can indulge DSS without dispute from me, then all his boxes are ticked. But there are times when I just can?t cope with the charade of pretending it?s all perfectly normal. And don?t get me started on the access rota.

I?m not asking for any magic solutions, but just wanted to get this off my chest.

LtEveDallas is spot on - no, we shouldn't need to go round in happy family bubble all the time, BUT (if you've read my original post) you'll realise that if I don't join in with The Waltons then DH gets upset and thinks I'm avoiding his son!!!!

So as someone said earlier - it's a lose/lose situation: I either upset DH, or have to spend the weekends carting DSS around with us.

Awkward Mary asks why I would want to walk alongside DH when we're out: because that's a normal thing to do!!! Otherwise I find DH/DSS walking along in each other's arms, and I trail behind them - which is a totally weird dynamic.

Allnew - excellent post. Our situations are so similar. Anything we do between 4pm Thursday and 6pm Sunday, every other weekend, has to be DSS-inclusive. We can't go for lunch on our own (it's an access weekend), we can't paint the hall (it's an access weekend) best not invite our friends over (it's an access weekend). We can't do anything that might not appeal to DSS. If he were 6, I could understand this. But he's not.

What would your DH do if DSS lived with him f/t?

Presumably he's paint the hall and have friends round? Why on earth wouldn't you. Maybe DSS might even like helping paint the hall?

I don't think it's the access weekends themselves that are your problem, it's your DH's attitude to putting normal life on hold because of them. Can he not see that it's that attitude that is causing you to feel so resentful of them (and hence resentful of DSS)?

My DP has friends round when he has the kids, we sort out bits of fixing things round the house, gardening, etc - it's just normal life.

I think Petals OH is so very insecure about his relationship with his son. He feels he isn't being a "proper" parent so treats his DSS like a prized poodle once a fortnight. Putting life on hold, which is probably necessary a bit more when there are a lot of children or they are a bit younger, but it's hardly necessary in this case.

There is nothing wrong with and 17 yr boy going shopping with Petal and his Dad, but you would think he would want to wander off to Game / Waterstones (or whatever he likes) while Petal and her DH look at kitchen units or he might want to have a cake and a coffee with his Dad while Petal looks at handbags. But this doesn't happen does it? I suspect he says very little and just literally gets in the way.

Everyone is terrified of saying DS/DSS can you just get out of our way and go and find something else to do?!

I think DSS can sense something is wrong simply by the fact that you don't do anything "normal" when he's around. Having other adults in his home for dinner would be good for him and might help his social skills, helping to paint the hallway might help Petal and DSS bond a bit more and give him a sense of achievement, which can only help his self esteem.

Petal02, you have my sympathies. If my 18 year old dd was acting like this (& I love her dearly) I would be highly frustrated but as her mother I would be able to influence the behaviour. I would certainly understand my partner's frustration and hopefully that would motivate me to try and improve the situation.

I think everyone does agree (except your dh) that this isn't typical teen behaviour. Your dss hasn't developed as other 17 year olds would, I'm not sure if it's just delayed i.e he's immature or of he will remain like this. I think your dh is a 'head in sand' dad and loves the dependency that his son has on him. If he lived with him full time however I bet he would be motivated to change DSS's behaviour! Also if he was exposed to other teens of a similar age he might gain some insight. My DH has a shock when he meets teens of a similar age to DSS, he then has to acknowledge that DSS's doesn't have adequate social skills (but we have only recently suspected that DSS has HF Aspergers).

I think all you can do is plan to allow dh/dss to have quality time together (which is code for you to get away from the situation).

So what will be your plans for some 'me' time next access weekend?

allnewtaketwo I'd be alarmed and really concerned if he had so little going on in his own life if, at 25 or 30 he was just trailing after his dad. BUT, at the moment, that's what he needs to do. It's odd, it's sad, it excruciating for Petal02, I know all that. It's as he is, at the moment.

The walking in front and "displacing" a parents partner in order to walk alongside themselves is very typical DSC behaviour and highlighted by Wednesday Martin in her book "Stepmonster" - in fact, I hadnt realised it was that which was causing me frustration and resentment until I read it and realised it was exactly how DSS was behaving

There are adults who live their lives alongside their parents; they often live with them, or very nearby, holiday with them, see each other daily, share meals and household resources, consult with them about life decisions - seeking their approval and considering them in an active parental role despite being mature adults themselves.

Generally, this has come about because both parents are happy with the situation - if one parent wants their DC to "fly the nest" they can cut the apron strings and send them off on their own, possibly causing friction with their spouse, but in the knoweldge that they are a parent, too. In your case petal, you can't do that in the same way - your DSS is not yours to set free.

Petal - without meaning to depress you even further, I don't see this getting any better, tbh. My exSIL is in her 40's and she is parent-dependant. Despite living abroad for a year in her late teens, she returned home, and only moved out in her 20's into the house 2 doors away when her parents bought it for her. She speaks to them daily, holidays with them, and seeks their approval for all her decisions; from household purchases to job opportunities. I fear that your DP's future is intertwined with his son, and if you want to share your life with your DH, you will be expected to accept DSS, too.

I'd argue that an 18yo who has no outside interests, friends they want to spend time with, and who is surgically attached all weekend to a parent won't suddenly undergo some radical change by 25. I think we all know at least one adult in RL who hasn't managed to "move on" from the nest. This behaviour is presumably where it starts. Ignoring it with the attitute that it's how they are at the moment won't make the problem go away

Yes, I think that's MY point too. THIS MAY BE AS GOOD AS IT GETS for the time being. Petal and her OH need to talk about the fact that she is not happy and it's not that she doesn't want to spend time with SS at all, but this "joined at the hip" thing every other weekend, is not working for her.

If he can't or won't get that, then he has a bigger problem than his clingy son.

ELiza22 has made a good point, as I tried to do a bit clumsily earlier on - it is the DH who has the issue here if he can't 'allow' Petal to have time on her own whilst he is with his DS. Why is the DH insisting that Petal has to act happy and mooch around with them all the time? Perhaps I am odd but I don't hang around with my DH all weekend, he does his thing, I do mine, we each spend time together/alone with DS at various points, we are busy with sport, voluntary work, shopping, housework, hobbies etc etc - it just seems a little odd to me that the DH in this case expects you all to be together all the time. Petal why don't you just get on with your own interests? If your DH acts grumpy because of this just explain that it is allowing him to have time with DS?

I can't see where Petal said that her DH insists she does everything with him all weekend. But at the same time, they are a married couple and they both work all week. It is perfectly natural to want to do some 'couply' stuff of a weekend. With a 18yo trailing after him 12 hours a day this is clearly impossible. Let along extremely usual for parents of an 18yo.

Not only have most teenagers at this age developed interests of their own and their own social lives, but even children of a much younger age tend to have interests/activities which give their parents a bit of time at the weekends. Petal's DSS does absolutely nothing except for trail after his father. Any parent would find this frustrating.

I'd find it frustrating too. And even more so, if he weren't my own (we do tend to make allowances for our own sometimes). But, I'd be more concerned than anything. Something's amiss here for this young man.

There's no cut off point that says....."we've done the parenting bit, now bugger off and give us some time to do our own thing.....you're 18 (or 16 or 22 or whatever)". It must be a royal pain in the ass but THAT'S HOW THIS YOUNG MAN IS.

Nobody is telling him, or expecting him to be told, to "bugger off" though now he's 18. The suggestion was made in the past that he could have active involvement in deciding when he wants to see DH (for no less time than normal but on a basis which would actually afford them more quality time together), and therefore making sure that this would be quality time. He wasn't interested in entering a more age appropriate arrangement and insists on being ferried around like a young child.

At what point, when a child/young adult is developing in a disturbing manner, is is appropriate for a parent to intervene? Just accepting that "this is how he is" isn't actually going to do him any good in the long run, let alone what is frustraing and tedious now. Petal tried her best to assist this but got nowhere.

lol - sorry for talking on your behalf Petal. I just find it so frustrating because I'm in exactly the same position with DSS.

Don't apologise Allnew - it's so comforting to know that plenty of other people understand exactly where I'm coming from.

I understand your viewpoint. I know Petal has tried. It's been thoughtfully documented, over time, on this site.

All you can do is encourage him ( which has been attempted) and yes, asking I'd he'd like a friend to stay/do something off his own bat is the right way to go. But...... He clearly doesn't want to. He WANTS to mooch about with them. I wouldn't appreciate it either but, it's been so long running this, I wonder how much of a person you can change, to accommodate "normal" behaviour?

I've also been watching this over a long time and agree with Eliza that yes, the situation is clearly very, very frustrating but I am genuinely just unclear as to what exactly Petal can do to change things. I learned through counselling myself that you cannot change other people's behaviour you can only change your own reaction to their behaviour which is why I think the only option for Petal is to accept 'this is how it is' and ensure she has her own strategy for coping with it, which will probably mean meeting up with her own friends, doing her own thing etc. I get that her DH doesn't want her to do this - but the only other option is to remain deeply unhappy and frustrated ..........

Perhaps one of petals coping strategies could be to vent on MN, making it clear that she's not looking for a solution to the problem - or would she keep getting flamed, I wonder ?

Thanks for your support ladies. And to those people who don?t like my threads ? perhaps you shouldn?t read them.

As I said, I just needed to vent. But I want to respond to a couple of points raised.

The walking in front of me when we?re out, to the point where I have to move away because I?m tripping on his heels, I was really interested to read this is classic step child behaviour. Which probably wouldn?t surprise me in a younger child.

As regards spending alternate weekends in a ?fake happy family bubble? ? I think DH is really torn two ways. I believe him when he says he wants to spend his weekends with me (as was pointed out earlier, we?re a married couple and such couples generally ?weekend? together), and despite his efforts DSS is still really clingy. Redhen is right when she suggests DH is very insecure in his relationship with his son. He would genuinely prefer a more age-appropriate arrangement, but this is overridden by his desperation to appease him, and this is why he won?t do any proper parenting, preferring to adopt the role of Entertainments Manager.

So in his efforts to (a) have a normal weekend with me; and (b) appease DSS, DH (wrongly) thinks that if he does normal stuff with me, but with the addition of DSS, then he?s keeping everyone happy. He often says ?surely it doesn?t make any difference if DSS is with us or not? which just illustrates how he doesn?t get it. Having a physically large young adult shadowing us, and (as someone said earlier) doing very little and simply getting in the way, is just plain bizarre.

I take the point that there isn?t a cut-off age with parenting (I wouldn?t expect there to be, and I?m still close to both my parents) but surely there must come a point where the gradual transition to adulthood begins? As one poster pointed out, if she?d got to 18 and still followed her parents around, they would have got cross and told her Find Something To Do (it would have been the same with me and my parents).

When I last asked DH when the access rota would cease, he said it would cease when DSS wants it to cease. Which means we have to live by the same pattern, week in, week out ? because DSS says so. And there?s a thread running at the moment about how much choice you should give children. Which makes me think it?s so wrong that DSS is basically given the choice over the routine of our lives. He?s got too much control.

No one is suggesting DH/DSS shouldn?t see each other, not in the slightest, I just thought we?d have a more adhoc arrangement by now, and the fact that we haven?t causes me real frustration.

And that?s why I vent.

I don't even know Petals DSS but he gets on my nerves.

The whole situation sounds like a nightmare. My 13 year old wouldn't come trailing around the shops with us - I just couldn't imagine an 18 year old doing it.

If I were you Petal I'd just totally detach on these weekends, do your own thing - go swimming, go out with the girls, do the shopping on your own - if your DH doesn't like it then maybe it will force him to grow a pair and consider the possibility that DSS shouldn't rule your lives, even on his "access weekend".

petal - forgive me, if you've answered this before - but is your DSS able to function alone in different circumstances? Does he make his way to and from school independently for instance? Is he self sufficient?

I ask because I think there is a difference between a young adult who can't and a young adult who chooses not to.

petal - you said: 'He would genuinely prefer a more age-appropriate arrangement, but this is overridden by his desperation to appease him, and this is why he won?t do any proper parenting, preferring to adopt the role of Entertainments Manager.'

Well, your dh really has to man up and STOP being entertainments manager and do some proper parenting, or his son will never grow up! Surely, if you're all unhappy with this, then what could get worse after a chat? Surely it should improve things? If there is something wrong with dss then how about a visit to the GP/counselling/talk to his mum - what's he like with her? Has he got friends, is he independent, is it only with you and his dad that he regresses?? And I think you should do normal things on weekends - like paint the hall.

Try and get dss involved. See friends - maybe he'll talk to them. Do you have friends with similar aged children?? Could you all meet up? That way you are spending quality time with ds but the load is taken off you and it's not so intense.

Petal - I read your threads not because I 'don't like them' but because it is a really interesting dilema much more so than the endless breastfeeding/SAHM/my DH is a lazy git threads . I don't want to be unkind and I do appreciate that you sound very frustrated.

This thread has made me think as I am a stepchild myself (in my 50s ) and my mother and DSF are in their 80s - I tend to spend a lot of time with my DM but not particularly with DSF (I have no birth father) - maybe he feels pushed out of the situation, it has given me a lot to think about.

Do you have any of your own DC? I am not sure if it makes a difference ....

In many ways your DH sounds like a really good father, he is obviously spending a lot of 'quality' time with his son which, sadly, so many dads don't seem to do.

How exactly does your DH behave when you say you want to do your own thing at weekends?

Ragwort - is it possible to have too much quality time at the expense of learning life skills, though?

DC's in shared care situations often spend a lot less time experiencing day to day life than they would if they had a single/primary home - tasks such as decorating/shopping/housework are avoided by each parent when the DC is present so they never learn how the bins get emptied, the gutters cleaned, the oil changed etc and suddenly, they are out in the big wide world on their own with no idea of how to survive and no-one to schedule their lives for them

NADM ? you ask if DSS is able to function alone in different circumstances: the answer is yes. He left school after his GSCEs last May, and enrolled in a nearby Sixth Form College (which is part of a different school) and seems to have got on fine. When he?s at home (the ex?s house) he gets the bus to college and back every day, with no problem. Also, his Mum sometimes goes away for the weekend, leaving him at home on his own (which we?ve no problem with, given his age) and he seems to manage to fend for himself.

It?s only when he?s with us, with DH treating him like a baby, that he seems to regress. I gather his mother regularly goes out without him (and that?s quite reasonable) and he doesn?t disintegrate. I realise that he doesn?t see friends or socialise when he?s at this mother?s house.

So I don?t think he has any medical conditions, he?s just (as Redhen puts it) treated like a ?prize poodle? by DH, who is desperate to cater for his every need and whim. He?s not a young adult who ?can?t?, he a young adult who ?chooses not to.? (If that answers your question).

Piedwagtail ? DH and I have had so many ?chats? about DSS, which usually end up in rows, that it?s very hard to broach the subject any more. I never open a conversation about DSS, you can almost see DH becoming defensive before I?ve completed the first sentence. There are countless occasions when I?ve told DH that he needs to change things (and deep down DH knows he needs to do this) but he refuses because he ?just wants to keep things calm and not rock the boat.? Just typical ?position of least resistance? stuff. I was interested that you describe access weekends as ?intense? because that?s exactly the word I?ve used; intense, protracted residentials is the phrase that springs to mind.

Ragworth ? I?m also a stepchild, I had a very happy childhood which made me think I?d cope with DSS far better than I have done. I don?t have children of my own.

DH is indeed a very good father, he desperately wants to do his absolute best for DSS, even though most of us can see he?s actually doing him a huge dis-service by rendering him so ill-equipped to deal with life.

But having reflected at length (again) about all this, I will be making my own plans next time it?s an access weekend. And whilst DH won?t like this, I can guarantee it won?t make him change his stance with DSS ? he won?t want us to spend the weekend apart, but sadly his fear of upsetting DSS is greater than his desire to keep me happy.