Taking baby to Australia

[travispickles]

I lived in Australia for a year many moons ago and have family and friends out there. They are dying to meet my DD (7 months) and have offered to put us up etc. I can afford to take her (just) next Summer, when I have hols (am a teacher). After the following xmas she turns two and then I have to pay for her, which I cannot afford to do. My DP (her dad) can afford to come (just), but the issue is his DS(11). We simply cannot afford to take him as well, as it adds on an extra £1000. I would feel bad not taking him, but I don't want my DD not to meet my family and friends because of this. What do I do? Take just her/ take the three of us/ not go at all so as to avoid disappointing DSS? (BTW DSS lives with his mum most of the time, comes to us every other weekend although we have him half the holidays as well. )

Atwar - is DS also your DH's son ? Either way, what he's standing in the way of is incredibly unfair (it could just as feasibly be a friend of SD's offering to take her on holiday next year and if not, well, that's life) but if DS isn't DH's son then what he's doing is pointless spite and I can't help feeling that he's getting personal at DS ... I can't think of any logic for his attitude other than he doesn't want DS to have this experience.

I'd renew it and let him go ballistic ... let him show himself up as being hugely mean spirited. It sounds as if the financial sacrifices being made on behalf of SD - as a result of her laziness - far exceed the cost of getting DS's passport anyway.

Although your situation is along similarish lines to this topic, I don't think there's any conflict of interest as DS's invite has come, no question, from outside the family. There's no argument re: who "should" or "shouldn't" be going, nor about the "entitlement" or not of each respective child. It's the same as DS or SD getting party invites, or being taken out for the day by a friend's family - though admittedly more generous. I appreciate the small number of kids who are treated in this way are very lucky but it's hardly been designed to hurt SD and at 16 whilst she might feel envious she should also be old enough to recognise it's nothing to do with her as the relationship in question here is between DS and his friend (plus friend's family). And of course, your DH should definitely be mature enough to recognise that too.

Chelen ? no, I?m not suggesting that your stepson?s mum should include your son in things, given they hardly know each other. But what I?m trying to say, is that insisting the OP?s daughter and her stepson have to have completely the same holidays, just because they?re half siblings, is not realistic. When two children live in two separate households, you just have to accept their lives will differ at times.

Like DiscoDaisy, my parents divorced when I was young, and both parents remarried, and I became part of an extended family. Each household was completely different (not in a bad way) but I never felt left out or side-lined just because I didn?t take holidays with my step brothers/sisters. I don?t think they minded that they didn?t holiday with us either, it?s just the way it goes with blended families.

The OP understandably wants to introduce her new baby to her friends/relatives, and let?s face it, if she was only travelling to Clacton then I doubt we?d be having this argument.

Petal02, if you re-read my post, I didn't say the two children should be treated exactly the same, and explained we do many things without SS when he's away.

What I said, and say again, is a trip to Oz might be deemed exciting enough to lead to the 12yo feeling resentful that he didn't get included.

As I've said to the OP these things are one of the harder aspects of being a stepfamily and there is no one size fits all right answer.

Would DSS's mum be willing to contribute to the cost? If your DP spoke to her and explained the situation (chance to go to Aus, cannot afford £1K but could afford £500, would like to take him) do you think she would be willing?

We had to go this route with DSD. A holiday (with child place) for us (Me, DH, DD)was £2K. As soon as DSD hit 12 we were expected to pay adult prices, so the 2K holiday became 3K. One holiday we looked at added £1.6K to the price because we were expected to have 2 rooms! It all became too much for us to afford on our own.

DSD was still having holidays with her mum, so wasn't going without. We explained the situation to her (DSD) and she understood fully. Last year when we were going on a holiday she really wanted to join us on her mum contributed rather than taking her away herself.

However, my overarching feeling is that you should still go whatever. DSS should be old enough to understand that the only reason your DD is going is because it is free (and stress the 'she doesnt even get a seat or baggage allowance of her own'). You are not deliberately snubbing him - you wouldn't be taking DD either if you had to pay for her.

Chelen - I do agree that there's no "one size fits all."

catsmother nope, ds is not DH's son but he has been in his life for the past 5 years and acts like a dad iykwim...

The added complication with the invite from the friend is although DS is friends with this boy through school, DH works with his mum and so feels almost an ownership thing (odd I know) and DS's friend has a brother the same age as DSD but DH doesnt see how DSD and the older brother would automatically be friends etc... they haven't even met! DSD currently has no friends locally, she is very quiet and we are encouraging her to mingle with her new course mates and to get a part time job for money and to make friends but its a slow process... DH does think that DS shouldnt have anything that DSD doesnt have but convieniently forgets things like at Xmas his parents spend around £150+ on DSD and gives DS £20.... my mum gives them exactly the same amount.... so there are differences and I accept that but DH doesnt unless its in DSDs favour... sorry for the mini hijack!

travispickles I feel for you, this is going to be a hard decision and to be honest i think the easiest thing to do would be for your DP to stay at home and do something with DS whilst you take DD to see your family... then start saving to revisit in a couple of years with dd and DSS when DD will be able to remember things and make a big holiday out of it!

But the issue is that DP is DD's dad as well. So if he stays behind with DSS then DD is being deprived of having her dad as well. (Not to mention that I have to travel tro the other side of the world with an 18 month old on my lap and no help!) I would like my family and friends to meet my partner. The issue with the money is that the ex is constantly asking for more money and gets a lot of financial help from DP's dad. So she would force DP's dad to fork out £1k for DSS to come (and then what happens is that DD gets nothing as opposed to her brother who gets his clothes/games etc bought for him. So not fair that way either). The Italian holiday is being paid for by my dad so it isn't taking money out of the family pot, btw. The thing is that we will be staying with people out there who have a spare room but not more than one. How does that work? Knowing them they will make their own older kids give up their room for DSS but I just feel awkward about it.

Travis - it's clearly not practical, nor financially viable, to take your stepson to Australia. You can't be expected to take every close relative of your DP's on this trip. So book yourself, your daughter and your DP onto a flight, and do NOT feel guilty. You're already taking your SS to Italy.

Just out of interest, what if your DP had 4 children from his previous marriage, would everyone be suggesting you rob a bank to pay for all the extra plane tickets ?????????

You want to show your relatives the baby that you and your DP have created. In that respect, you could consider it a 'private' family visit. To be honest (and I'm gonna get flamed for this) if DH and I had a baby, I would want THE TWO OF US to present our baby to the world.

Travis - there will be plenty of other times when you can take SS on holiday. But this trip isn't one of them.

I think your partner having a child or 4 children is something you have to factor into your lifestyle when you get together with them, and certainly if you have more children between you. It simply isn't going to be the same as if it were just the two of you and your own child/ren. And that can be hard, and it can mean that sometimes you don't do the things you would have done if they weren't around.

And what is a step-child if they aren't part of your "private family". I can't get my head round thinking that she's different to dd and part of a kind of sub-family. She wasn't - and still isn't.

I agree with posters who think you shouldn't feel that you have to take him. Forgive me if I'm shot down over this but myself and my DP went to New Zealand for a month in March and his DC didn't come. Maybe this is different because we don't have any children of our own.

They are taken on holiday by their DM to lavish places - and are going to Florida next month for 2 weeks. Should my DP, their dad, go with them all? No - That would just be weird!

We have one on the way now and have decided on 2 holidays per year - One with SC and DC and one with just our own DC. My partner and I have spoken and we have considered that their 'normal life' is with their DM. It is important for our DC to have their normal life with us as well as with their half brother and sister - But the half brother and sister should not be spoilt by having 2 parents take them on goodness knows how many lavish holidays per year. Children from separated families often get 2 holidays per year - Children in non-separated families will most likely only get one. Maybe this compensates for the fact they are 'victims' of divorce but it's not like it's uncommon these days unfortunately and I think it's very important that children understand. They see other members of their family go on holiday without them - Grandparents, cousins etc - Why should seeing their dad/half siblings be any different? My DC will see it's half brother and sister going to lavish places without him/her.

Travis - would your DSS's mother even let him go? If she is that against you, she might refuse to allow him to go at all.

Has that even been considered yet?

FWIW - I think that it would be fairest for either just you and your DD to go, or all of you including your DSS. Not the most practical and may not even be possible - but it would be the fairest option.

However - he might not want to come himself. It's a long way from home - I think it's worth asking him how he feels about it - you don't have to just do what he wants but it's worth factoring in his feelings.

ATwar - your DH is being an utter cock. Utter. Your DSD shouldn't have her passport renewed until she needs it otherwise it is a sheer waste of money - she might not use it in 2 years, that's such a waste!

I'm of the camp that agrees not to take him although I can see why it would cause conflict. My ex has never taken our DS on holiday despite every year promising to! Was I upset when he swanned off to Spain with his then girlfriend of a few months and her c children? Absolutely! Because he has never put DS first in this respect.

Op Is making sure that dss isn't missing out by going to Italy. In my book that's good enough.

Dp would never come on holiday with me and DS without his kids, but then i'm more than happy to clear off on my own with DS nowadays and would certainly go to Oz if I had the opportunity without dp and dsc. But then dss isn't dp's, so its a bit different.

I think what you have to remember is that you are going to visit family - the fact they are in Australia is a side issue really. This isn't a holiday - it's a trip to see your relatives. If they lived the otherside of town he wouldn't come so why to this?

Yes in an ideal world you would like to take SS, but if you can't afford it then why should your daughter miss out on meeting her family? Likewise why should you go longer without seeing them?

I would probably not take SS but I would arrange an alternate special holiday centred around him instead. Something you know he will really love and enjoy - not visiting your in laws which will not be fun for a 12 year old, regardless of the location. As long as there is an alternative so he doesn't feel left out then I'm sure it'll be fine.

I agree totally FSM. As I said in an earlier post, if the OPs relatives were based in Clacton, I doubt this thread would have created so much friction!

If nothing else this thread shows people have strong feelings on the subject whether its an issue of how inclusive "family" should be or the glamourous nature of the destination. And whilst you shouldn't give a hoot about what us folk on the internet think, you should work out what DP, DSS, his mother and because of the support your DP's father is giving I'd also include him.

If you decide you don't want the DSS to go - fair play to you (although personally I disagree, as I said above I do appreciate I don't count!) but work out how to handle the subject.

What if DP decides he really wants him to go. what if DSS is gutted, what if DP's ex kicks off (and the impact on DSS beyond the holiday and his relationship with his dad), what if DP's Dad thinks its unfair and offers to pay.

Frankly your arguements didn't convince a lot of people on here - in hindsight I know I reacted strongly to a couple of specific comments hence my previous posts - so for the sake of everyone just make sure its handled sensitively.

SeoraeMaeul ? I can?t believe you think that the OP should consider what DSS?s mother thinks about this???? And you also think that DP?s father should be consulted? I think a lot of stepmothers get fed up because their lives seem to be run by other people, but you?re now suggesting the OP should get set up some sort of consultation process, and obtain ?committee approval? before she books her foreign trips??

Sorry but this is a trip for the OP and her DP to introduce their baby daughter to their Australian friends/relatives. The ?guest list? for this trip is their concern, and no one elses. I?m just trying to imagine how my life would be, if we asked my DH?s ex for her opinion over whether we should include DSS in our holiday plans ????

No I dont think "consulted" and I dont think I said that, and if thats how it came across sorry. But I do think her and her DP should think about how they bring up the subject and how they position it.
If her DSS is gutted then its mother who probably gets the bulk of the fall out of that - or if she is a stereotypical vicious ex can manipulate it against the relationship with DP/DSS father. How they bring the subject up with her could have significant bearing on how DSS reacts.
As for DP's father - she already said he's paying for the Italy trip and if they said they couldn't cover it DP's ex may ask him to fund. Based on some of the comments its obviously as much about not having a shy 12 year old around and introducing the babyas "her family". So what if DP's father does offer to pay? Surely she should work out how she'll handle that?
I guess I come from this as a step child as opposed to a step parent. My step mother some how missed the fact that she didn't just marry my Dad, she got married to a man with two daughters. If she'd - and frankly he sometimes - had taken 5 minutes to reword or think through a few of their decisions I'm sure we'd all have a better relationship today. IMO this could be a non issue - or if handled badly a big bone of contention. So no I'm not saying consult - but I stick by think it through and work out how to handle it with everyone.

You suggest that the OP/DP should be careful how they bring the subject up with the ex, in an attempt to avoid future problems. But first thought is ?why should the OP and her partner bring it up with the ex in the first place?? It?s bringing an unnecessary person into the decision-making process, and I think we all agree that some ex?s can be very manipulative, and may try and twist the situation no matter how it?s approached.

As regards the DP?s father offering to pay ? the first post on this thread was the OP stating that they couldn?t afford to take DSS, so we have to assume that no extra funds are on offer from family members.

You?re right that some of the comments related to whether it would appropriate/desirable to include DSS (regardless of finances) and wanting to introduce the baby as ?her family.? I can understand this. In any family, there are little units within the ?main? family unit. And whilst DSS is clearly part of some of those units, I doubt the OP considers him as ?close family? in the same way she would her baby and DP. She didn?t give birth to DSS, she didn?t bring him up, and she doesn?t live with him. And even with the very best of intentions, and being fully accepting of DSS, the relationship she has with him won?t come close to the relationship she has with her baby daughter. I?m probably not explaining this very well, but I hope people know what I mean.

I also grew up in a step family, and we didn?t have an ?all or nothing? approach to holidays, it would never have worked. But if we?re not careful, we?re (yet again) elevating a step child to a position where he?s got more power than anyone in the household ? his ?right to choose? seems to have received greater support than the OP?s ?right to choose? ? and she?s the adult for heaven?s sake!

So with that in mind, I think it?s quite acceptable, given they?re already taking DSS to Italy on holiday, for the OP to leave DSS with his Mum when she goes to Oz.

couldnt agree more. They are taking DSS on a real "holiday" and this is different - agree with the Clacton comments too!
Does the mother take the DS on holiday? I know this is complicating the issue but seriously, my DH's ex has never once taken the children on holiday in the last ten years since DH and I got together because she assumes that we will take them away with us and therefore she doesnt "need" to. This despite the fact that they both lived with her for 9 of those 10 years. This is because we had them for chunks of holiday time and therefore we took our own holiday allowance during those chunks of time and used it to go abroad and therefore took them with us! We never asked her to contribute though and it's really nothing to do with her. Although she does moan that we go away on our own that she doesnt get to go on holiday as much as we do - you cant win.

I agree with Seorae about how it's approached. If it's something that is going to affect their DSS then why not include his mum in a discussion? Of course that does depend on what relations are like, and what the ex is like - but if xh were thinking of doing something like this I'd want him to ask my opinion on how I thought dd would feel about being left out. It may be that the answer is that it really wouldn't bother her not to go, it may be that she will be gutted and feel like she isn't wanted. I know my dd well and my opinion is valuable.

Besides, dsd, her mum, her dad and I starting to work together (possible when dsd's mum became willing to acknowledge our roles) was the single best thing that happened to dsd, as she could no longer play us off against each other.

I struggle too with this concept that somehow step-children aren't "close" family, of course dsd is close family. I can't imagine not having taken her to meet my family and friends. They've become a really important part of her life and a huge support. I coudln't have compartmentalised her into a different part of my life. We were a family of 4, it was just one child I didn't give birth to.

And I can't get how you can separate lives into a "normal" life that is without step-children around, or that their "normal" life is when they are with their other parent. When I was with xh, we had a life, not one when dsd was with us and one when she wasn't. There was no difference - she was either with us or not. And likewise now, dd's "normal" life involves being sometimes with me and sometimes with her Dad.